Welding with car batteries?

[fixer67]

I have read some about this and would like to hear first hand from any one who has done it before.

[TPnTX]

why? lol....

"watch this!"

[jwweld]

ive tried it just fooling around two batteries in sieries 24v 7016 or 6010 1/8" it worked but had a real hard time starting a arc good luck use long leads keep the battries far from sparks

[tuckerstools]

There is a company called ready welder. They make a spool gun that uses deep cycle batteries. check out their web site. http://www.premierpowerwelder.com/re...readyweld.html

[smithboy]

Short answer...yes, with the right equipment, you can weld just fine.

I have used the readywelder and a two batteries to weld a bunch of aluminum bleachers...well, argon also, but that goes without saying, right?

Two batteries lasted about an hour, maybe an hour and a half of maybe 20%-30% duty (just a guess). The welder was great. It has a cheap gas valve built in that is pretty wasteful, but it worked like it was claimed to even outdoors with gas. After I was done, I had to put the fluxcore roll that was in the welder to begin with back in. I tried it also on some scrap from the old steel bleachers. The beads were pretty good, but the batteries were running low, so I dont know if it would have been a whole lot better at full charge.

[Bondo]

I've got a Rediwelder,+ Love It.......

My 1st mig welder was a Snap-On/ Century Battery powered portable, that used the Big rolls of wire,+ Pushed it the length of the whip........
I set it up for Aluminum, with a couple of big deep- cycle batteries,+ a dedicated 24V battery charger........
It got the Job Done,............
I built a Rigid Bimini Top for my boat with it......

Since I got the Rediwelder the Snap-On resides under the bench somewhere,...... No more hung wire,+ refeeding it..........
Pull the Trigger,+ Weld................

I'm thinking about getting another 1 to set up for Steel,..........

[George Womack]

I spend lots of time 4-wheeling, and we have to be ready to fix just about anything on the trail. There are plenty of onboard welders out there, but they're too expensive and complicated for me. I run dual batteries in my rigs for winching anyway, so I decided to try battery welding a few years back. All you need is an electrode holder, ground clamp, and leads. I use military style battery terminals to make it easy to switch between parallel hookup for normal running and series for welding. I found that 1/8" 6013 works best for me. Of course there is no control of amperage, but by varying your technique you can weld anything from exhaust pipe to leaf springs. We have repaired broken driveshafts, springs, etc. on the trail and it works great. I wouldn't do this at home, but on the trail you do what you gotta do.

[smithboy]

George,
what amps would you estimate you are welding at?

[George Womack]

Originally Posted by smithboy

George,
what amps would you estimate you are welding at?

I have no idea. I've done it with cheap Wal-Mart batteries and Optimas, and both have worked fine.

[smithboy]

I have been tempted to set up one of these jobs on my dad's tractor (a 24v system), but just havent gotten around to the details on the connectors. After using the readywelder, I was also tempted to get one of those, but....$400+ has kept me just tempted, and I like stick better anyway. I was thinking about using the alternator-to-welder trick, but havent run across a good cheap 100+ amp alternator that I could use for that. I like simple also.

[12,000 Doors]

Man, you guys are like Mcguyver. Remember that episode where he welded the boat motor spark plug back together and got away just in a knick of time before the bad guys got him? Besides hooking up the battery he wrapped one of the leads around and around a vise. What was that all about, dropping the amperage maybe? Maybe George could do that on the trail.
Also speaking of welding with alternators, has anybody welded with one of those Zena welders? They sound like pretty much like the same thing from their website.

[smithboy]

Never used a zena, but I have an old highschool buddy that rebuilds car alternators and starters, and he showed me how to use an old ford alternator for exactly the same thing. He used to have a unidentified v-8 set up on a trailer as a generator/compressor/welder/grilled cheese sandwich maker. Talk about McGuyver...this guy was a nut, but he was always coming up with stuff that you wished you had thought of and making a single-purpose thing into a swiss-army-knife-of-a-thing. Only 4 cylinders were used to run, the other 4 were used to compress air...at least I think they were. He had a bank of three alternators wired together as a dc welder and an old generator head on the other side of the motor pumping 120-240 ac. At the time I didnt pay much attention to how he accomplished this, but now I wish I had.

[Bondo]

I sure would like to hear from Anybody that's got a Zena............I'm close to breaking down,+ Buying 1.............

If it'll do like he told me on the phone,+ what I've read,....... It Sounds like Money Well Spent.......

I'm lead to believe that I'll be able to run this off my Pickup,....
Running Their Equipment for welding with Stick,......
Or,.. Just plug in my Redi-welder,......
Or,... Plug in the Jumper Cable,+ Spin about Any motor over in about Any temperature..............

[triffid_98]

Ah MacGuyver, the most dangerous arts and crafts guy on television. Did you catch the episode where he made a nuclear bomb out of a paper clip and some Nyquil?

Originally Posted by 12,000 Doors

Man, you guys are like Mcguyver. Remember that episode where he welded the boat motor spark plug back together and got away just in a knick of time before the bad guys got him? Besides hooking up the battery he wrapped one of the leads around and around a vise. What was that all about, dropping the amperage maybe? Maybe George could do that on the trail.
Also speaking of welding with alternators, has anybody welded with one of those Zena welders? They sound like pretty much like the same thing from their website.

[tapwelder]

I have a Zena welder. It works great. Extremely convient. I got mine off ebay for $450. It was a promotional thing, I guess.

However, once you get it you will need to fabricate bracket, Possibly purchase an additional pulley for your existing alterantor, Idle control is convient. While it comes with 20 foot cables you might want to purchase longer cables at the time of purchase. You have an additional wire connecting to the electrode to the welder (2 welding cable + control wire), since all of the controls are in the handle. I fabricated some 100 foot extension with quick connects, the parts are available at a electrical supply house. I don't think I saved any money fabricating my own extension.

I think you need additonal accessories inorder to hook up the ready welder.

It sure beat carrying a engine driven welder. It is 100 % duty cycle. 150 amps dc. Weld and cuts well and easy to control amps. My only concern was the electrode being so complex. However, I keep the original 20 foot leads in my truck and the extensions on my trailer. I have never had to use my extensions since I can drive my truck up to within 20 feet of most jobs. I have about $700 plus lead extensions in the set up.

[H2SO4_guy]

Has anyone used the SB Anderson quick disconnect hookups like they use on forklifts? They are rated for 350 amps. That ought to be enough.

What about increasing the voltage? I have a battery pack that is 500 amp hour (At the 5 - 8 hour rate) and is 48 Volts. I wonder how that would weld? It weighs 923 Kg., so isn't too portable, but I could use 6 volt golf cart batteries in series (220 Amp hours at the 20 hour rate deep cycle) to get the desired voltage. How much voltage is enough and how much is too much? Any ideas are appreciated and what welding rod as voltage goes up. I have no idea how much amperage the things could manage, but it might be LOTS!

[Cronatron Rep]

http://webapp1.cronatronwelding.com/...temNum=CW03191

[Rick V]

fixer67 asked about welding with car batteries and wanted to hear first hand from any one who has done it before.

jwweld said he tried it just fooling around two batteries in series 24v 7016 or 6010 1/8" it worked but had a real hard time starting a arc good luck use long leads keep the batteries far from sparks.

I tried this on the weekend. First with one car battery; with only 12 volts I could drag a line of light little sparks - but no arc. Then, I tried again with two car batteries in series (24 volts) - success after a fashion.

I tried 2 battery welding with two different rods:
5/64 inch Lincoln 6013
It was easy to start the arc with a new rod. But if the arc went out, I discovered that I could not restart the arc, just like jwweld said ....until I scraped the rod tip along the concrete floor to remove the flux sleeve off the rod tip and expose the rod metal again. The arc went out so many times this became a pain, so I switched to another rod type.

3/32 inch (no name) 6011
Because this rod does not form the same hard flux sleeve around the rod tip, I had no trouble restarting the arc at any time.

The big problem was no current control - just as George Womack said in his response, "Of course there is no control of amperage - but by varying your technique you can weld anything from exhaust pipe to leaf springs."
In my case, my technique or lack thereof could not compensate for the availability of so much current.

a) I found that I had to weld in short spurts, making and breaking the arc else I laid down too much metal - too fast (maybe I have to move faster).

b) Also, each restart of the arc tended to throw globes of molten metal about several feet in all directions.

c) I had to be very careful on restarts not to stick the rod - spectacular!
I normally use a small 117 volt AC welder with about 85 amps max output. When I had a rod stick, I heard a hum in the welder and the tip of my rod turned red - and sometimes a little fire took place at the very tip.

Ha - Ha, with the car batteries, it was a whole different story! Get the rod stuck and within a second or so the whole rod is on fire and cherry red from end to end! That's the end of the rod since you have boiled out all the special flux ingredients.

However, having said all these nasty things, I must say that the welds made by the two battery system were not bad.
So, if this battery welding system could be equipped with some form of current limiter, then yes it works OK.

Ideally, I think that using three batteries to obtain 36 volts would make for easier arc starting for hard-sleeve-tipped rods like 6013, 7014 and 7018.
Current control is needed: maybe a carbon-pile (used by auto shops to test batteries under load) to limit the current to reasonable levels.
With those two items (higher voltage and lower controllable current) I would say that a car battery system could work pretty weld for stick welding.

Rick V.

[MicroZone]

Pretty cool little piece of equipment and quite portable!

[Rick V]

24 Volt - 2 Battery System

Test of car-starter-motor solenoid system.

Test #1
In my previous post #18, (call that Test #1) I had used two mismatched batteries: one a marine starting battery (~80 amp-hour) and the other a small car starting battery (~60 amp-hour). I hooked them in series using one 8 foot length of #8 gauge copper wire from a cheap jumper cable. I used a 20 foot long, #1 gauge, jumper cable - clamped to the negative terminal at one end and clamped to the work as ground at the other end. I also used a 20 foot long, #1 gauge, jumper cable - clamped to the positive terminal at one end and clamped the rod at the other end.

Test #2
This time I thought would be better! Call this test #2. I used six matched marine deep cycle batteries of 100 amp-hours each. Three batteries were connected in parallel using copper bars as conductors. This was repeated for the second bank of three batteries. I hooked the two banks in series using a 4 foot length of #4 jumper cable. Like before, I used a 20 foot long, #1 gauge, jumper cable - clamped to the negative terminal at one end and clamped to the work at the other end.

However, for safety sake, I wanted to be able to quickly stop the current flow in case I stuck a rod. So, this time I passed the welding current through a starter-motor-solenoid/relay controlled by a trigger on the rod holder. Rather than come straight off the positive terminal using a 20 foot long, #1 gauge jumper cable to the rod as before, I passed the current weld through a starter-motor-solenoid/relay. Thus, I came off the positive terminal with a 3 foot length of #4 gauge copper booster cable to the solenoid/relay. I left the solenoid/relay with a 4 foot length of #4 copper booster cable - that connected to the 20 foot long, #1 gauge, jumper cable. That #1 gauge cable was clamped to a 5 foot length of #4 booster cable going into a screw-type (Bernhard) rod holder.

Here is what I observed.

5/64 inch Lincoln 6013
Test #1: It was easy to start the arc with a new rod. But if the arc went out, I discovered that I could not restart the arc, until I scraped the rod tip along the concrete floor to remove the flux sleeve off the rod tip and expose the rod
metal again. The arc went out so many times this became a real pain.

3/32 inch Forney 6013
Test #2: I could not really get an arc started - just brief flashes of arc. I had to do a lot of rod scraping on the floor - as with Test #1.

3/32 inch (no name rod from Princess Auto) 6011
Test #1: Because this rod does not form the same hard flux sleeve around the rod tip, I had no trouble restarting the arc at any time.
Test #2: I never really got an 'arc' going. I welded almost like a wire-feed welder - short-circuit welding: jam the rod into the joint and get a short-circuit melt off, followed by brief arc - then repeat jam/arc, jam/arc, jam/arc. I could not get a continuous arc going.

In Test #1, I found that I had to weld in short spurts, making and breaking the arc else I laid down too much metal - too fast. In Test #2, I had no arc and could only weld by short-circuit jam/arc method.

In both Test #1 and #2, each restart of the arc tended to throw globes of molten metal about several feet in all directions.

In Test #1, I had to be very careful on restarts not to stick the rod - within a second or so the whole rod was on fire and cherry red from end to end! In Test #2, I could use a trigger on the rod holder to trip the solenoid/relay off - stopping the welding current. However, even when the trigger was held down, I did not get the flaming rods observed in Test #1. NOTE: I suspect that I had so much more current available (24 volts at 300 amp-hour instead of 24 volts at 60 amp-hour) that I just melted off the rod end of any short circuit!

In Test #2, as well as trying 3/32 inch 6011 and 6013, I also tried 3/32 inch rods in 7018 and 7014; they behaved like 6013 forming a sleeve around the metal that made maintaining the arc difficult. I did get some short 1 inch runs with 7018 that were excellent but it was very difficult to maintain the arc.

Because of the problems in Test #2, I rechecked all the connections and improved on some of the connections. A repeat test with 6011 was better - there was obviously more current at the rod as restarts caused more flash and a larger shower of globes of molten metal throw about... but I still could not maintain an arc.


36 Volt - 3 Battery System
Test #3
I used three matched marine deep cycle batteries of 100 amp-hours each. I hooked the batteries in series using 4 foot lengths of #4 jumper cable. I used 20 foot long, #1 gauge jumper cables from the battery terminals to the work area, the negative end clamped to the work piece, the positive end to a rod holder.

With 36 volts, I could easily start and maintain an arc with all the previous rods! Yeah!! However, the current was rather high (I had to turn up my auto-darkening helmet from #9 to #12!); the high current caused problems.

Here is what I observed welding T filets with 1/4 inch thick mild-steel stock.

3/32 Lincoln 7018 AC
Very forceful arc, I had trouble with maintaining distance: too close and I rapidly melted the base metal (undercut) and if I backed off too far I created porosity, a little farther and the arc went out. I could not restart the arc without scraping the end of the rod across the concrete floor. In the end most the weld looked full of tiny holes.

3/32 inch (no name rod from Princess Auto) 6011
The arc was strong. There was no trouble starting, maintaining or restarting the arc. The problem was too much heat input – you had to rush and this was not good.

5/64 inch Lincoln 6013
I figured I would try a smaller diameter rod to see if that could tame the higher current. NO! The arc was so forceful and focused, it just zipped a hole (looked ~1/8 inch in diameter) right through the 1/4 inch thick vertical plate – in the blink of an eye!

1/8 inch Forney 6013
I figured if the smaller 5/64 inch 6013 wanted to poke holes through 1/4 inch plate, I would move up to a larger 1/8 diameter rod – hoping for a softer, wider arc. Opps! Wow – a lot of heat input, causing major undercut – like half the wall thickness of the 1/4 inch thick plate just flowing away - caving in!

===//===
So, where does this leave us?

24 volts – not enough to start and maintain an arc. One has to short-circuit weld = jab/arc. When it does weld, it is good. Real pain in the butt though.

36 volts – easy to start and to maintain an arc. Big problem is too much current – at least for welding 1/4 inch plates. (It might great for 1/2 inch plates.) If one could add some form of solid-state controller for amperage, this could be a decent welding system.

So, anyone got a 30 volt battery? That seems to be what is needed.
What next – that is easy and cheap to try?
My next step: use the 36 volt system but add in a resistor (big open coil of 0.035 MIG wire) to drop about 6 volts – placing say 30 volts on the weld while flowing about 100 amps.

Stay tuned…

Rick V.

[gimpyrobb]

Why not just use a dimmer switch to vary the voltage/amps?

[bruceb]

Originally Posted by gimpyrobb

Why not just use a dimmer switch to vary the voltage/amps?

Oh man...that's funny!

[gregben]

If you could come up with a < 1 Ohm, high-wattage resistor you might get some good
results.
For example:
V=IR, so I=V/R and V/I=R (Ohm's law). If V=36, and you want 72A for
welding thinner material, then 36/72=0.5 Ohm
P(in Watts)=VA, so 36*72=2592W,
so with a 2.5KW, 1/2 Ohm resistor you could tame your 3 battery
setup. I don't know, put perhaps a calrod element for an oven or
a heating coil for a hot plate or electric range would do the trick.
I'm curious to hear more of your experiments.

[littlefuzz]

Originally Posted by gimpyrobb

Why not just use a dimmer switch to vary the voltage/amps?

How long do ya think that would last?

[gimpyrobb]

Well I don't know. I have seen people put them in systems like this: http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/assembly.html and have lots of success. Just trying to help.