wiring question

[chasman]

Just want you guys to check my work before I use. Mounted a 6-50 receptical on the outside of my mudroom with a weatherproof pvc box. Ran 6/2 nm-b w/g under crawlspace through foundation into basement and connected to main panel. From the recptical to the foundation I ran the wire in pvc , under the joists. It is dry under there but it is outside the foundation and has wooden skirt around mudroom, so it is possible for squirrels or other rodents to get in thereand I wanted to protect thewire. My connections are as follows: At the main, black and white connect at the breaker with the white wrapped with black tape at the end. The bare wire(ground) connected to the bus bar on the left. I my panel I have 2 bus bars one on the left one on the right, they both have neutrals and grounds on them I chose the one on the left because its where the ground rod wire comes in and attaches to. The other end the wires are connected black and white (taped black) to flat prongs and ground to center(d) prong. This circuit is on a double 50 amp breaker in the main. Plan on pluggin a millermatic 211 into her, am I good to go. Also I tested the recptical with voltmeter and have 119volts each between the flat prongs and the ground. Can I test between the two hots to get 240 or do you always test from a hot to a ground. Sorry this was so long but I wanted to be thorough. Thanx chas

[MAC702]

Sounds great! Yes, you can test between the two hots for 240V (or maybe 238V in your case). In fact, this SHOULD be done. There are some panels (getting more rare, though) where it is very possible to have 120V at each hot and 0V between the hots.

Remember to unplug the machine if the outdoors receptacle will be seeing rain. Most weatherproof receptacles are only weatherproof when the cord is unplugged and the cover is closed.

Also, while I am very happy to see your attention to detail to put black tape on the white wire, you technically need to recolor the entire length to meet Code on a wire that is #6 or smaller. This is why I prefer a marker. I took a pair of dykes and put a notch in the tip of a large marker and it makes it much easier to keep it on the wire.

There was really no reason to choose the ground bar on the left. The grounding rod is actually not the primary ground for plugged-in equipment anyway. No problem with what you did, of course.

[GT Steve]

Chas,

Based on your description, it sounds like you are good to go. I would check (carefully with a voltmeter) between the two flat prongs at the receptacale to verify that you have ~240V between them, just to make sure you didn't accidently put both breakers on the same buss.

I'm sure other more qualified individuals will be along soon to verify, or tell me I'm full of it (Duane or MAC ).

You were correct in connecting the ground wire to the ground buss bar, since a welder does not have a neutral, only two "hots" and a chassis ground.

Have fun! I am getting ready to hook up my machine as well, and I like your idea of just mounting a receptacale outside the mud room for outside work.

Edit: ha! I thought MAC would be along soon...

[chasman]

Thanx for the replies, I did check voltage at the rec. and have 240volts so I guess im good to go. Just so i know what is the primary ground source for plugged in equipment ? The neutral from the serviceline?? thanx again

[Broccoli1]

Can you run Romex through PVC?

I thought it was not a good ideer

[chasman]

from everything Ive read you can for short lengths above ground, my situation is its only in pvc for about 8 feet and is above ground( up under the joists of the mudroom) I did it for rodent protection only. Hopefully I did not jeopardize the circuit im sure others with more experience will chime in on this one. Thanx cw

[wesdavidson]

Romex in pvc would be fine here. Code requires that cables be protected where subject to abuse or potential damage. PVC is required for conduit in corrosive or damp areas, we could agree that under a porch meets that description. The 6ga wire is larger than required, and it isn't unusual in residential and outdoor work to run cables to panels and subpannels inside conduit to protect them. Duty cycles are pretty low. I would rather run an uninterupted cable, protected where needed than have a bunch of boxes and splices.
Full load temperature rise and ease of pulling repairs or additional wires are the only reason not to run romex in conduit, neither apply here.
Most wire is 75C temp rated (safe to 167Deg F) , #6 would be rated 65 amps 100% duty cycle, 50 amps is equivalent to 77% duty cycle. he is fine here.
The welder will probably adverage a 30 amp input load or less while running, and he will probably adverage no more than 1 hour arc on per 2 hours, 60%x50%=30% duty cycle, table 630.11a 2002 code allows a multiplier of .55.
I know it is an old code book, Doesn't change much. Should be OK.
So he is only running the cable to about 35% of max rating, The wire is 2 or 3 sizes larger than required, he should be ok. I would agree with him that the hazard from plastic loving varmints is greater than the temperature issue.

Sounds like you have done a great job!
Get welding!

[wesdavidson]

Grounding issue; the service neutral/ground should be tied to the ground buss in the breaker box and a grounding rod or water pipe, all the equipment grounds are tied to the ground buss in the breaker box. This is the only place that any outlet grounds should connect.

DO NOT hook the welding grounds and the wire grounds together, they are different systems. And the grounding system isn't fused. We burned up $120 bucks worth of twist locks, $200 bucks worth of SO power cable and 300 feet of building wiring when somebody tried to parallel two aircraft starters which are simmilar to welders from different sides of a hangar, besides smoking a thousand dollars in rectifiers. Hell-a-poppin fer a few minutes!

Funny thing, I knew a farmer that had his main pannel grounded to a rod, but his ancient fuse box on his pump was wired backward, -had the hot grounded to the supply water pipes - they had cast iron drains - Shocked the @#$%^& out of them when they took a shower. Power bill dropped $50 a month when we got the wires straight!

[chasman]

Im a little confused over the grounding, I ran the ground wire for the welder outlet to one of the bus bars inside the main panel. Now in my panel I have a bar on the left side and one on the right. They are bonded together and I have both white(neutrals) wires and bare(ground wires) connected on both sides. The neutral from the main service line enters the panel and connects to the left bus bar, so does the the wire coming from the grounding rod in the earth. I attached the ground wire (from welder outlet) to the left bus is this ok, technically every wire inside that panel is bonded together(neutrals and grounds) the way im seeing it.

[MAC702]

I could've sworn I posted to this, but it's not here. Oh well, I probably screwed something up.

Yes, you can run NM cable inside conduit for physical protection. BUT, if it is in an area that the Code REQUIRES physical protection, then you have to use SCH 80 (not 40) PVC or rigid steel, not EMT.

Yes, the SCH 40 or the EMT will provide protection, but not technically, according to the Code.

[MAC702]

Originally Posted by chasman

Im a little confused over the grounding, I ran the ground wire for the welder outlet to one of the bus bars inside the main panel. Now in my panel I have a bar on the left side and one on the right. They are bonded together and I have both white(neutrals) wires and bare(ground wires) connected on both sides. The neutral from the main service line enters the panel and connects to the left bus bar, so does the the wire coming from the grounding rod in the earth. I attached the ground wire (from welder outlet) to the left bus is this ok, technically every wire inside that panel is bonded together(neutrals and grounds) the way im seeing it.

You are fine. At the main service entrance (and ONLY at that panel) the neutrals and grounds are bonded together and can share busses. When possible, we like to keep them separated and just bonded together, but it is fine if they are mixed between the two.

[chasman]

thanx Mac and thank you all for taking the time to help me out on this project. Chas

[mccolld]

Originally Posted by chasman

Im a little confused over the grounding, I ran the ground wire for the welder outlet to one of the bus bars inside the main panel. Now in my panel I have a bar on the left side and one on the right. They are bonded together and I have both white(neutrals) wires and bare(ground wires) connected on both sides. The neutral from the main service line enters the panel and connects to the left bus bar, so does the the wire coming from the grounding rod in the earth. I attached the ground wire (from welder outlet) to the left bus is this ok, technically every wire inside that panel is bonded together(neutrals and grounds) the way im seeing it.

But, only use netrual line/s for netrual purposes and ground line/s for grounding purposes. Don't make them do double duty outside the breakerbox otherwise somebody in the future may be in for a shocking suprise.