Sub-$100 Dry Cut Chop Saw?

[Jack Olsen]

Hi. I'm new to this forum, and I suspect this idea might irritate some of you -- so let me apologize in advance.

I've got a welding project coming up that's going to require several dozen simple cross cuts. I might not need to do this kind of cutting again for years (or ever) and I'm on a budget. So I've looked into 14" abrasive wheel chop saws (from Harbor Freight to the Milwaukee, and I've also looked at the inexpensive Harbor Freight horizontal/vertical band saw. For $100-$200, I guess I could be cutting steel tomorrow.

But if I buy a chop saw or a band saw, I'm going to have equipment to store, and -- again -- I'm on a serious budget. So I've got a conceivably hare-brained idea in my head that you guys might be able to talk me out of. Here it is.

I've got a Delta 10-inch Miter Saw with a 13-amp motor on it (I figure that's probably about 2 hp?), and it looks like I could run a 9-inch or 10-inch dry cut blade on it and come up with some scheme for clamping down the 5/8-inch square lengths of tube steel I want to cut. Absolute precision is less important to me than a fairly square and clean cut. This is for a fence, and I've got dozens of these things to cut to length.

Now, the most immediate problem I see is that the speed of the miter saw is going to be far too high for these dry cut blades. They'll heat up and lose their edge. But I've also got a Harbor Freight speed controller sitting around that could reduce the 5200 RPMs of the saw down to about a quarter its normal speed.

I'm neither a machinist nor an electrical engineer. This idea might be just plain stupid. But a dry cut chop saw is going to set me back $400-500. My plan involves the miter saw and the speed control, which I already own. But for the sake of putting together a figure, I'm going to include the $15 for the controller and also $25 for the replacement motor I can budget for what I do to my miter saw. Then, for another $30 I can get an Oshlun SBF-090048 48-tooth blade. Or for $50, I can get a Milwaukee 48-40-4515 8-Inch 42-tooth blade (smaller-than-10-inch blades will move slower per revolution, right?). Or for $53, I can get an MK Morse CSM948SC Metal Devil 9-Inch 48-tooth blade; or for $54, an Oshlun SBF-100080 10-Inch 80-tooth blade; or for $60, a Freud D1050F 10” 50-tooth Diablo Demon TCG Ferrous blade.

So the range is $70 to $100 total for the ability to dry cut some metal -- with less sparks and metal dust than an abrasive wheel chop saw and faster cutting than either an abrasive chop saw or the $200 (before adding the cost of decent blades) Harbor Freight band saw.

Of course, that only means something if it works and is safe. And it might not be either of those things (again, I'm not even a hobbyist fabricator, at this point). So here are my questions, assuming anyone is still reading.

1) Is anything I'm talking about going to blow up, fly apart, start a fire or otherwise harm me?

2) Will the speed controller reduce the torque of the saw to the point where it will be ineffective at cutting?

3) Is a miter saw going to flex too much for even these conspicuously non-precision cross-cuts?

4) Maybe it's viable. Are some of the blades I listed going to last significantly longer than others?

5) I would guess that running an 8- or 9-inch blade in a 10-inch saw is going to slightly change the angle of contact where the teeth meet the steel. Should I space the guide out to correct for this? Are there any other wrong-diameter hazards I'm not thinking of?

6) My miter saw has a 5/8 inch arbor and some of these blades have 1-inch holes. Is there such a thing as an arbor spacer or adapter (I'm thinking it'd be a little like a washer) that I could use to adapt the larger hole to the smaller arbor?

If anyone's got answers or suggestions (even if it's just to shut up and go buy a cheap abrasive chop saw), I'm all ears. I appreciate any advice you guys can give.

[MAC702]

The problem with the speed control is that is will NOT increase torque like a gearbox does on a real saw. You will not have the power to do the job. Also, does your miter saw have a clamp? Most don't and this is important when making cuts like this, especially with a toothed blade cutting steel. This also assumes the miter saw has the type of AC motor that can be speed-controlled. Not all can.

If you post your location, you just might get lucky with a local member willing to help out.

It's also a great opportunity to get good with a hacksaw. And you did say they weren't precision cuts.

What other power tools do you own? Circular saw, Reciprocating saw, Jig saw?

What is the size and configuration of the material to be cut?

[Billdacat]

See if you can rent a chop saw... With tools, it is just not good economics to buy junk.

[A_DAB_will_do]

Look into buying a reconditioned portable bandsaw or sawsall. The portband will set you back about $100 for a factory reconditioned unit. Blades are $20 for a pack of 3 from Lowes or Home Despot. The portabands are very compact and very good at just what you need to to.

A reconditioned sawsall will run you about $75, and so long as the steel isn't too thick, it should get the job done.

Personally, I'd buy the portaband, as you'll get the quiet, compact low cost tool you're looking for.

As Billdacat mentioned, you might even be able to rent one, rather than buy one. Check your local industrial equipment rental companies.

[artworksmetal]

If I understand you correctly, your 2 most important criteria are saving money and not having to store a tool that you won't need.
Renting a tool is a great suggestion.
Putting an abrasive blade on you Miter Saw should work fine. Not sure why you're considering toothed blades at all.
I used an abrasive cutoff blade on my circular saw for years before I got a bandsaw. That would also work just fine.

[littlefuzz]

I bought my Clarke chop saw at TSC and it was around $100. I haven't had any trouble with it, it could use a little more power but no more than I use it it's fine. Whenever you don't need it anymore you might get most of your money back on Craigslist.

[steve45]

I love my Milwaukee Dry Cut Saw. As Mac said, you MUST clamp down the work! I'd look for a Harbor Freight sawsall or a portable bandsaw.

[Jack Olsen]

Originally Posted by artworksmetal

Putting an abrasive blade on you Miter Saw should work fine. Not sure why you're considering toothed blades at all.

Abrasive wheels on the miter saw and my handheld grinder are both the back-up plan. The appeal of a toothed blade is far less sparks, dust and globs to clean up.

But then, today I tried the speed adjuster with the saw on some hard Oak, and the problem is that the power is reduced as you slow the RPMs. Running at 1/4 speed just means the blade stops when the load gets too great. (So much for the heart of my idea.)

I can get 10-inch Freud Diablo steel cutting blades pretty cheaply ($25 - about 4x the cost of abrasive wheels). I wonder if even running the saw at 1/2 speed would extend their life to the point where they'd be cost-effective compared to abrasive wheels. I know more RPMs equals more heat and shorter blade life, but maybe there's a sweet spot for these cheap blades that would still give me clean cuts, low sparks, and faster cuts than either an abrasive wheel or a band saw, while still using the miter saw.

[9er]

Enough already.
You can come by my shop in South Orange County.
For about $15 (the price of a blade) you can cut all you want. At least a dozen pickets will fit in my horizontal band saw at a time.

Just my 2cents
9er

[MoonRise]

Take up 9er's offer!

Power miter saw for wood cutting is NOT the right tool for cutting steel. And it will put extra wear-n-tear on the wood saw. Meaning you'd have to go out and get another power miter saw for your wood cutting needs.

And as mentioned already and as you found out, the speed controller will reduce the motor torque and pretty much make your plan unusable.

Cheap and minimal storage? Hacksaw and some bi-metal blades and a way to clamp or hold the workpiece. About $20 brand new for a high-tension hacksaw frame if you don't already have one.

Power tools? Jig saw, port-a-band, 7-1/4 steel-cutting blade (about $40-$50 at Lowes/HomeDepot, maybe less on-line) in a circular saw, band saw, abrasive chop-saw, plasma, gas axe .

[Jack Olsen]

9er's office is very generous. I'm still in the early stages of this project, and would like to figure out a way to get it done without putting a total stranger out. But it looks like my initial idea is a bust -- unless I can figure out a way to gear down a miter saw to 1200 rpm.

But while I've maybe got 9er's (or any other local's) ear, is there a good local source for steel you can recommend? I was planning on buying it from Bobco, which a friend suggested. But is there another good cheap local source I don't know about?

On the cutting front, I'm considering picking up a Harbor Freight horizontal/vertical band saw. It's on sale now for $199 and I've got a 15% off coupon. I could sell it after this fence is done, or possibly try and find a way to keep it in the garage. It seems to me like being able to clamp the pieces down is going to be better than using a hand-held tool, especially given my current skill level.

[Billdacat]

HF Good grief!
I am not bashing all HF stuff, but they just don’t have much to offer. Any tool you get from HF always has something lacking… I bought an econo transmission jack; yeah it did the job for cheep, but was frustrating to use on my Jeep’s. I have an HF creeper, it was nice when new, but with a broken board my a$$ now drags on the ground. The creeper looked good with a wicked flame and bright red wheels when new. Now I curse that POS as it sits in my shop.
You can buy a quality used tool for about the same price as new HF junk. The quality used tool will likely out last the HF stuff 10:1.

Good tools are never cheep, but quality used tools are sometimed a real bargain.

[artworksmetal]

First of all, 9er isn't a total stranger - he's a fellow member of this site. Any one of us would do the same if we could.
Second, It seems like you're working way too hard here to save a nickel. And you're confusing - first your worried about storing a tool, now your talking about buying a bandsaw that takes up roughly an 8 sq ft footprint.
What are your real priorities here?

[7A749]

Originally Posted by artworksmetal

First of all, 9er isn't a total stranger - he's a fellow member of this site. Any one of us would do the same if we could.
Second, It seems like you're working way too hard here to save a nickel. And you're confusing - first your worried about storing a tool, now your talking about buying a bandsaw that takes up roughly an 8 sq ft footprint.
What are your real priorities here?

Yeah, I'm a little confused too. Hate to sound like a jerk, but if someone wants to do something he either doesn't have the money to do, or doesn't want to spend the money to do, he has NO place doing it.

Kinda like that old Rush song...."You don't get something for nothing...."

You gotta pay to play. No way around that one.

Amazing how much WORK people will make for themselves & others, just to save a little money.

Who knows??????

[artworksmetal]

Here's the minimum ya need:
A Skilsaw
Some abrasive blades
Spray bottle or hose - keep the metal and blade wet and cool. It'll last longer and you have mud instead of dust.
Earplugs or headphones
Full face mask
Gloves
Coupla clamps and a table
tape measure
Square
Sharpie Pen
4.5" grinder

Oh yeah, and a cold beverage. Alcohol only after your done cutting for the day

Or go see 9er and make a new friend.

[Jack Olsen]

Originally Posted by artworksmetal

First of all, 9er isn't a total stranger - he's a fellow member of this site. Any one of us would do the same if we could.
Second, It seems like you're working way too hard here to save a nickel. And you're confusing - first your worried about storing a tool, now your talking about buying a bandsaw that takes up roughly an 8 sq ft footprint.
What are your real priorities here?

I only meant that I was a stranger -- it was my first post on this board and he was very generous.

My priorities make sense -- to me. But I guess that's true for just about everybody. If there was an opportunity to do it for just-about-free, I would have happily gone that route. If I've got to buy a piece of equipment, then I'd rather have it be one that makes the job easier -- and while using a hand-held grinder or even a hand-held band saw would be more economical, it won't (I think) be as easy I can just clamp the steel to. By all accounts, a lot of time with an abrasive chop saw is going to be hell inside the garage, and I don't have the option of sawing outside. So the dry cut saw looks great, except it's a $500 solution. The hand-held band saw is cheaper than the fixed one. But I can use the horizontal/vertical one for both metal and wood, and I suspect I'll be able to make better cuts with one I can clamp the steel to. (Although I could be totally wrong about that -- I haven't done this before.)

Now, I know Harbor Freight's quality is terrible. But my 15%-off coupon offsets the cost of the two-year full replacement warranty, and the saw is $50 off now in any place. And as terrible as Harbor Freight's stuff can be, there are internet groups dedicated to this particular saw with tips for making it more useable. I'll give it a try, and sell it if I don't like it.

Originally Posted by artworksmetal

Here's the minimum ya need:
A Skilsaw
Some abrasive blades
Spray bottle or hose - keep the metal and blade wet and cool. It'll last longer and you have mud instead of dust.
Earplugs or headphones
Full face mask
Gloves
Coupla clamps and a table
tape measure
Square
Sharpie Pen
4.5" grinder

Oh yeah, and a cold beverage. Alcohol only after your done cutting for the day

Or go see 9er and make a new friend.

I've got all of that. And while I might bug 9er for help one day, at least now I'll find a way to cut this stuff without bugging him.

[specter]

I think his best bet is to take 9er up on that offer or when he buys the metal have the steel yard do it for 50 cents a cut.

It beats buying a cheap piece of junk. Plus he said it was only going to use it a couple of times then try to find a place to store it.

[Pipeliner]

Originally Posted by Jack Olsen

I'm considering picking up a Harbor Freight horizontal/vertical band saw. It's on sale now for $199 and I've got a 15% off coupon. I could sell it after this fence is done, or possibly try and find a way to keep it in the garage.

You won't be able to give that HF piece of junk away for $40. Best suggestion I've seen is get the a cheap skilsaw and a couple of blades for it. Or take it to a local and pay them $20.

[LomitaWelder]

For the first two years I was on my own I used 4 1/2" abrasive blades with a Dewalt angle grinder to cut everything. Man did I get good at using that grinder. I actually bought a second grinder so I could have an abraisive cutting disk on one grinder and a layered sand grinding disk on the other so I could cope pipes without having to change back and forth. I did this for every job and gotta say the angle is one of the few absolutely necessary tools you need. Finally I have a Dewalt cold saw but still use the angle grinder more often. But the cold saw is nice to have.

[weregeek]

I'm no bigger fan of HF than the next guy, but I've cut quite a bit of metal on the little 4x6 bandsaw, and I don't think I'd want to be without it. The only real issue with the HF bandsaw is the quality of the blade that comes with it. In a word it is awful. Decent third party bi-metal blades for the saw are affordable and make a big difference.

If you don't want to have a tool to store when you are done, call your local rental places or take 9er up on his offer, though. The HF bandsaw isn't exactly the fastest way to make dozens of cuts.

[Jack Olsen]

As much as it frustrates guys who cut more steel in a week than I will in my entire life, I bought the HF bandsaw. I've worked out where I can keep it in the garage. Slow cutting won't be a problem; it'll give me more time to figure out what I'm doing with the Mig.

And I already got a pair of good bi-metal blades for when the HF one starts acting up. I'll post here again with my progress.

[weregeek]

Congrats and good luck with the little red 4x6. You may want to check out the yahoo 4x6 group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4x6bandsaw/

As for the blade that comes with it, make it a spare if you insist, but I wouldn't even bother putting it in the saw when you set it up the first time.

[Jack Olsen]

I actually took the HF band saw back today. I added up the time I'd need to cut 100' of pickets, and decided to bite the bullet and get a Milwaukee dry cut saw.

I'd already bought a pair of better blades, which I'll post to the Yahoo group to see if anyone wants to buy.