Fold-Away Welding Table

[Jack Olsen]

In my garage, I've got a work surface that folds up out of the way when I'm not using it. I use it for my table router and miter saw, mostly. It's not designed with jumping-on-top-of strength in mind, but I've jumped on top of it to test it and it held up fine.



The car isn't there when I'm using the table, but I made it somewhat idiot proof by working it so that the car could still pull in there even if the table was down.

There's some empty wall space next to the carpentry table, so I'd like to add a welding table that would also fold up when it's not in use. Since I might conceivably hammer on this one, I'll design a more-robust undercarriage -- the legs won't come down at an angle, for example.

But I'm new to welding, and I've got some questions. Aside from general sturdiness and an unpainted steel surface, is there anything else I need to build into this design?

Today I took an unplanned step with this project and bought a 3'x6' steel table that I think I can adapt to this job. The top is only 1/8" thick, which I hope won't be a problem. Thicker would have been better, but having to lift the thing up to fold it away is another issue. As it is, the steel plate piece in this table weighs 92 pounds and the undercarriage pieces add another 113 pounds. (Going to a 1/4" top would have meant adding another 92 pounds to the existing 205.)

I paid $60 for the table from a place down the street from where I live. I hope that wasn't a rip-off. Here's the top of the table sitting down in the space where it will go. The cat is there to show scale.



The underside is painted, but I'll strip it along the edge and also on the top. You can see it's supported with 2"x2"x.25" angle stock. There are five welded-in threaded lugs on each side for the undercarriage, but I'll redesign that part.



You can see that the angle stock was welded to the plate every eight inches or so. I'm leery about going in and welding the full seam because of potential warping. But I don't think there will be a strength problem with the existing welds.



Like I say, I think I can design a workable undercarriage that would unfold when the table swings down.

But I've also got to make the thing sturdier. It's not that you couldn't jump up and down and hammer on it all day now. But my thinking is that I could add a 1-5/8" layer of wood underneath the plate piece and then weld cross-supports with more of the 2" angle iron to support the wood.

Is there a downside to having wood underneath the steel? Would it be better to simply cut some more 2"x2"x.25" angle and add more cross supports, with no wood behind the plate? My thinking is that the wood will make the thing a little less gong-like when I'm pounding on it.

Anything else you guys think I should consider? As I said, this is my first project. After that, I'm making a fence with panels that will be 34" x 60", which will fit on top of this table. But I've got to finish the table before I can start the fence.

[tanglediver]

I just had a couple of thoughts on the matter...
First, the whole cat thing being there for scale...I don't buy that, no cat does anything for anybody, the cat is there because the cat WANTS to be there.
Second, the wood layer under a table top meant for welding is bound to get scorched, btdt (been there...).
Looks great though!

[scott brunsdon]

Given the pristine state of that garage, I don't imagine you're going to be doing alot of big, heavy, dirty stuff.
That's a great table top.
No need to weld the seam.
I reckon a sheet of ply or something underneath would be fine. Maybe something that won't burn like the compressed sheeting we use over here for bathroom floors?
Scott

[Sandy]

Originally Posted by scott brunsdon

Given the pristine state of that garage, I don't imagine you're going to be doing alot of big, heavy, dirty stuff.
That's a great table top.
No need to weld the seam.
I reckon a sheet of ply or something underneath would be fine. Maybe something that won't burn like the compressed sheeting we use over here for bathroom floors?
Scott

I'm with Mr Brundson () here, you'd better build a back splash into that too or that paint will have little meteorite tracks all over it real quick.

[Jack Olsen]

Thanks.

I do plan on a backsplash made of metal, and there will also be welding blankets and curtains on hand.

It does get dirty.



Bu then I clean it up when the project is done.

[Sandy]

But then I clean it up when the project is done.

But my problem is, I never really ever finish a project.

[scott brunsdon]

Yeah, I get to about 90% with most things and move onto the next project. So because I never completely finish anything, I never clean up. But what I have taken to doing is going out to my shed each night at 7pm. I get a beer out of the beer fridge, put the news on the TV, and make myself clean up and toss some stuff out for half an hour. Three nights in a row now and it's looking good.

[Broccoli1]

I wouldn't spend any time trying to beef it up with a wood underlay.

Buy a Cheap 55lb HF anvil for banging on.

[Jack Olsen]

I'm thinking of adding a trailer hitch receiver for a vice and a ginder -- and maybe an anvil. Can you bolt those things down?

[scott brunsdon]

I've bolted a grinder and a vice to a tabletop before, but a trailer hitch receiver would be a better idea - quicker to swap and get them out of the way when you don't need them.

[Jack Olsen]

My plan is to put receivers on both the main bench and also into the wall adjacent to the welding table. I think if I use the double-style receiver, mounted sideways, it'd even be stable enough to hold my drill press. I'll just need to weld some 2" square stock to some plate for each tool.

[farmersamm]

Hey, are those Duncan Pfife phife fife wtf ever legs on that green table????

Best doggone illusion for a table leg ever devised. The taper gives an illusion of taper even though it's only tapered on the inside edge. COOL STUFF

[farmersamm]

WW tradition

[paweldor]

DO NOT WELD IN THE SAME AREA YOU DO WOODWORKING.

Doesn't take much of a spark, laying in collected sawdust, to burn your house down. Also, those cardboard storage boxes in a welding area are a NO NO.

My honest opinion? I'd never even strike an arc in your garage.

BTW, The military has been using that concept you have for your bench supports on "troop seats" for many years.

[chicksdigwagons]

Depending on how you design the table fold away mechanism, using gas lift struts from a vehicle hatch could greatly reduce the effort to fold the table away (or lift the table up to use...)

Just a thought.

[MoonRise]

I'm with paweldor.

Woodworking in the garage is one thing from a safety and clean-up and workspace impact standpoint.

Welding is a whole other thing.

Wood makes sawdust, which you can just sweep and vacuum up.

Welding makes molten metal, which can burn things and set them on fire. Things like the sawdust in the garage, the wooden workbench, the wooden baseboard molding, the vinyl(?) floor tiles in your garage, the cardboard boxes, the paint on the wallboard/drywall, the paper surface of the wallboard/drywall, etc, etc.

And to do welding means you have to do grinding. Grinding makes sparks as well.

No wood on a welding table. It's not needed, and at best it can scorch and at worst catch on fire.

A 1/8 inch thick steel table top is not for pounding on, you need a thicker table top or an anvil (as mentioned) for that. An 1/8 inch thick table top is OK for light-duty welding tasks, but thicker is better.

Now for all I know and since you didn't specify, maybe you are just planning on TIG welding small metal decorations or jewelry or such. In which case an 1/8 inch thick table top is plenty thick. If you want to weld bigger or heavier stuff or stuff that has to be clamped square or tacked square to the table, then 1/8 inch is kind of thin.


The skip-welding of the table frame to the table top is fine for the intended purpose of the table as a layout-assembly table. If the table were to be beefier, I'd say it would need additional cross-ribs underneath. With a thin table top, you need more structure underneath to beef things up. With a thick table top, you need more structure underneath to hold things up.

Weld out in the driveway. Set up the table with some casters or such so that you can move it out into the driveway, set up the welding curtains around the table area to block wind and breezes and protect curious onlookers from the arc and such, etc, etc.

IMHO.

[Jack Olsen]

Pawelder and MoonRise, I appreciate the cautions. This is for use with a 110V HH140 Mig. I won't be welding anything very thick. I'm building a short wrought-iron-style fence out of 16 ga square tubing as a first project.

I'd never have sawdust around for welding.

I will have a backsplash, suspended curtains and welding blankets. The floor is industrial ceramic tile.

Working out in the driveway is hard to get away with in a residential stretch of Los Angeles -- especially if I'm running a grinder and a chop saw. And on a piece of property as small as mine, I'd have to be completely enclosed in curtains outside, both for people looking at the arc and fire issues. It seems to involve most of the same issues if I enclose myself in the same way in the garage (only without the wind messing up my shielding gas) -- but again, I do appreciate the caution.

I'm going to look into the way the troop seats are designed.

chicksdigwagons, I've thought about a cable and a counterweight for lowering and raising the table, sort of like some older houses do for large windows. The weight could move up and down inside the wall, between the studs.

I'm dropping the wood idea. If the table seems too flimsy, I'll either reinforce it with some 2" angle pieces or I'll add another layer of 1/8" plate on top of the existing one.



The garage will always be clean when I'm doing welding in it. You can see from this picture that I'll be able to take the car out and curtain off half of the space and have very little that's flammable nearby. I know it's not perfect, but I don't have many options on my property. (And for what it's worth, the garage is not connected to the house.)

[Broccoli1]

Check out the wall mount.

http://www.vansantent.com/Grinding_S...h_grinders.htm

[Broccoli1]

I would 86 the Fold up Table and make one that fits next to your Tool Box.

Pull the Car out, roll the welding table over there- this way you can walk around the table.


You go to the Halloween Haunt?

[MoonRise]

If you are in a residential area and welding in your garage, how are you going to get ventilation and smoke removal?

You don't plan on having sawdust around, but it will be there somewhere. In the gap between the baseboard molding and the floor where a spark or skittling red-hot piece of slag or spatter bounces and then lodges, where it smolders and then catches fire in the wall later. Etc.

Hey, I didn't -plan- on setting the lawn on fire with the sparks from the abrasive shop saw either! But it still happened. A small splash of water and it was all taken care of.

Sawdust floats in the air and falls to the ground (and coats everything in the 'shop' with dust ).

Grinder dust and metal dust can travel a pretty good distance too. Except the metal could be more like a spark and not just a benign piece of room temperature metal.

Molten metal spatters or slag can hit the ground and dance or 'skittle' a pretty good distance as well. While still being red hot or hot enough to cause a smolder.

I'd say you would have to put an attached metal backsplash onto the metal table top, and also attached (or at least firmly clamped so that no sparks can get underneath or between them) wing shields for the sides of the table as well to prevent sparks or hot pieces from getting off three sides of the table. But that still leaves the fourth side where you are working from open.

Hey, that steel table is nice and all, but it is not beefy enough in either the structure or the top thickness for pounding on. I have a small steel table top only about 1/4 the size of your table or less, and I used 1/8 inch thick steel AND have a perimeter frame AND two cross ribs with a connecting lengthwise rib between them. And that tabletop is NOT for pounding on, just to firmly hold a small lathe.

The troop seats have the support legs pretty much just the way you have them for your woodworking fold-up table. BTW, nice job on the table.

[scott brunsdon]

Looking at the state of that garage, I get the feeling that Jack is probably fairly careful with everything he does.
I have an undercover outside area where I do all my steel stuff, but that's because my shed is a mess. I'd say Jack would go into convulsions if he saw the state of my shed and run away screaming.

[artworksmetal]

Originally Posted by scott brunsdon

Looking at the state of that garage, I get the feeling that Jack is probably fairly careful with everything he does.

Yeah Jack - I'm impressed. I've gotta warn you though, It's the grinder that'll kill you. Steel and grinding wheel dust everywhere - worse that drywall dust. Think about making an enclosed area with tarps or something for a grinding area. Even then, your pristine garage may never be the same.

Here's my humble setup. I know, I know - the table's wood. But it was free. When it starts to smolder, I know it's time to take a break

[Jack Olsen]

Thar garage shows some good self-discipline. I like it.

I'll admit that I'm not psyched about the grinding wheel mess. But one nice thing about the ceramic tile and painted walls is that it's pretty easy to go around with the compressed air hose and blow everything out of the nooks and crannies.

I'm thinking about buying another one of the tables and sandwiching the second 1/8 inch sheet on top of the first one (maybe skip welding around the edge?). It'd bump me to a 1/4 inch of steel, although it would also add another 92 pounds to the table.

But then, I'm also thinking of ways to put one or two automotive coil springs into the wall to control the drop rate of the whole unit.

[bensweld]

You might as well go all out and mount a small winch to raise and lower the table,seen it on Monster House.

[artworksmetal]

Originally Posted by chicksdigwagons

Depending on how you design the table fold away mechanism, using gas lift struts from a vehicle hatch could greatly reduce the effort to fold the table away (or lift the table up to use...)

Just a thought.

I used one of these for a Hot tub lid contraption. They're a pain to get just right, but can really take a lot of the weight off. It's a good thought.

Edit: Jack - wait a minute. Now you're talking over 300 lbs of table. Plus the pounding, weight of your projects, etc., etc.
You're gonna hold all of this up with hinges to the wall? And set it down gently, without busting the ceramic tile?

A folding table this heavy is just outside the parameters of what makes sense. It could be potentially dangerous.