Converting a boat trailer to a utility trailer(Progress Pics)

[hondarancher4435]

i bought this boat trailer for $200 that i will be converting to a utility trailer. it is an old tandem axle holsclaw trailer with the coil springs and struts which give it a nice ride. when i bought it it only had one axle the other one had rusted out. so far i have rebuilt the second axle and spread out the frame rails i have alot left to do and hope to get it done in a week or two i will keep you guys updated. and by the way i am 16 and have only een welding for a few months. all this welding was done with a miller sidekick 115v.

[hondarancher4435]

Here is a pic of when i first got the trailer then a pic of when i took the rollers off

[hondarancher4435]

then i started on the axle in the first pic i got it tacked because i wanted to test fit it to make sure everything lined up. then in the second pic i got it installed on the trailer

[hondarancher4435]

then today i spread the framerails out they have many different mounting holes and without drilling any new ones i put them out as far as i could. i also moved the axles up about a foot. was in a hurry it was getting dark so i didn't get a chance to get all the supports on the toung so don't think i am leaving it like that. also the frame got allitle tweaked somehow will have to see if i can get it back square when i put some crossbraces on but if not it is not a big deal.

[hondarancher4435]

and here is an example of my welds with the miller 115v

[MoonRise]

The welds look nice and consistent and the weave pattern looks nice as well.

But don't start/stop on the corners and don't leave the corners unwelded. Wrap the weld -around- the corners and if you need a start/stop then put it in the middle of the sides.

I can't tell from the picture of the weld, did you have enough amps/power/heat to melt INTO the material and not just pile filler on top (aka cold weld, cold lap, lack of fusion/penetration)?

You used an older Miller 115V Sidekick MIG machine, what shielding gas and what wire and size did you use? Standard ER70S-6 and C25?

[hondarancher4435]

i am using 25/75 argon/co2 and .023 wire. i had the amps cranked all the way up and my wire speed all the way down so i could go slow and get good penatration.

[Boostinjdm]

What's the deal with the cart? Putting a machine designed to permanently join metal on top of a wooden cart is just wrong. In some places you run the risk of being tarred and feathered for doing such a thing.

[Boostinjdm]

A proper welding cart is always the first project with a welder, it's a rule.

[duaneb55]

Welcome to the forum hondarancher4435.

That trailer conversion is looking really good and so do those welds. Makes me realize I need to get back on my boat trailer conversion too. Good job and keep the pictures coming.

[beamed94OneFiddY]

Originally Posted by Boostinjdm

What's the deal with the cart? Putting a machine designed to permanently join metal on top of a wooden cart is just wrong. In some places you run the risk of being tarred and feathered for doing such a thing.

ture i got a kick out of the wooden cart sporting a miller i gotta double jet ski trailer im converting ill start a thread when i get steel

[MoonRise]

Originally Posted by hondarancher4435

i am using 25/75 argon/co2 and .023 wire. i had the amps cranked all the way up and my wire speed all the way down so i could go slow and get good penatration.

You mean 75/25 argon-CO2 aka C25, right?

And you need to reread the manual and/or some more reference info on GMAW (aka MIG) welding. Because the wire speed IS the amps control for GMAW.

Read here http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ur-skills/mig/ or at Lincoln's or ESAB's websites.

Most wire-feed welders have two controls, a voltage and a wire speed. And you need to use the appropriate voltage for the wire size and the gas used and the WFS (wire feed speed) being used.

If the voltage selected is too high for the other parameters, you can get porosity, spatter, etc.

If the voltage is too low, then the wire stubs into the workpiece instead of melting off.

When set right, the GMAW arc in short-circuit transfer mode makes a 'sizzling bacon' sound.

If you turned the WFS way down low, you lowered the amps you were using. With 0.023/0.025 wire running at more than 2 ipm WFS per amp of welding current. If you had the WFS turned down you were running at probably around 30-40 amps or so. Which is not much welding current at all for the size steel even a small trailer typically uses.


Yeah, the wooden cart for the welder ...

[hondarancher4435]

well the reason it is on a wooden cart is because i had this machine for over a year and coldn't use it because i needed to replace the relay and got tired of moving it around in my shop so i built the wooden cart. also it was alot cheaper than building it out of steel. but im sure sometime soon i will build a steel cart. also i was not aware of the wire speed controlling the amps i thought the voltage was like the heat control and the wire speed was just how fast the wire spooled out. so by my theory i had alot of heat to penatrate and i was going slow with the wire to heat it up more which i guess is not right. they may not be perfect but i have not broken any of my welds yet on things that put alot of stress on them. keep in mind that i have only been welding 6 months and i am only 16 but i will take your suggestions and try them next time i weld.

[lotechman]

You are doing well,,, I notice you have ground off the galvanizing before welding... You obviously have a head on your shoulders. ( pat on the back is deserved)

[MoonRise]

General guide : Use 1 amp per 0.001 inch of material thickness

So 1/8 inch thick material calls for 125 amps, etc, etc

0.023/0.025 solid MIG wire runs about 30-90 amps in short-circuit transfer mode and it takes about 3 ipm/amp give-or-take.

Lincoln lists 100 ipm to get ~35 amps using their 0.025 L-56 wire. That would be an appropriate amperage to work on sheet metal steel of about 20 gauge thickness. Run the WFS up to 250 ipm with that size/type wire and you are up to about 80 amps, which would be about right for 14-16 gauge steel.

Read the above link on the Miller site for some info on MIG welding.

Also see http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...university.cfm and read the MIG Welding Handbook section.

Also see here http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/c4200.pdf

[hondarancher4435]

Originally Posted by lotechman

You are doing well,,, I notice you have ground off the galvanizing before welding... You obviously have a head on your shoulders. ( pat on the back is deserved)

thanks for the compliment after i did the welds i sprayed cold galvinizer compound on it all to help protect it.

[hondarancher4435]

Originally Posted by MoonRise

General guide : Use 1 amp per 0.001 inch of material thickness

So 1/8 inch thick material calls for 125 amps, etc, etc

0.023/0.025 solid MIG wire runs about 30-90 amps in short-circuit transfer mode and it takes about 3 ipm/amp give-or-take.

Lincoln lists 100 ipm to get ~35 amps using their 0.025 L-56 wire. That would be an appropriate amperage to work on sheet metal steel of about 20 gauge thickness. Run the WFS up to 250 ipm with that size/type wire and you are up to about 80 amps, which would be about right for 14-16 gauge steel.

Read the above link on the Miller site for some info on MIG welding.

Also see http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...university.cfm and read the MIG Welding Handbook section.

Also see here http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/c4200.pdf

thanks for all the advice the next few days are gonna be rainy so i will catch up on some reading to try and get it set up right.

[hondarancher4435]

Originally Posted by duaneb55

Welcome to the forum hondarancher4435.

That trailer conversion is looking really good and so do those welds. Makes me realize I need to get back on my boat trailer conversion too. Good job and keep the pictures coming.

do you have any pics of your build or any info to share?

thanks

[SundownIII]

hondarancher,

On one hand I admire your initative and desire to "get er done". Not many young people today would even take on such a project.

On the other hand, a trailer that goes over the road, is probably not the place to start learning to weld.

The lack of understanding of the effects of wire speed (amps) sends up a big red flag.

One of the problems with mig is that the weld can look good to the untrained eye (and sometimes even in a photo) and still have no penetration.

You are using what many would consider a marginal machine for the task at hand. Combine that with a lack of experience, and, unfortunately we may have an accident looking for a place to happen. Trailers experience stresses which are hard to recreate sitting in the driveway.

It looks like you really are interested in doing good work. That's the all important first step. Before you put that trailer on the road with a load, I'd recommend that you first have it inspected by an experienced fabricator. Having a tongue/axle come loose, and having your trailer crash into oncoming traffic is not something you want to have to live with the rest of your life.

Be Safe.

[hondarancher4435]

yes you are right it is not a good place to start however i have a couple things working for me. the old axle is factory built and has good welds so i can trust that and really all i put the other axle on for was safety in case a tire blows out or something. also at the toung i am going to put some extreme bracing on there just so i can be sure it is not going to break off at a bad moment

[hondarancher4435]

also my dad has been welding for 20+ years and worked for a large welding company for several years and is very good at it but unfortunetly he lives far away and he can not be here to help me but he is coming up soon and will get a chance to check it out before i put any loads on it.

[MoonRise]

honda,

Read the info links I posted.

Especially the parts about WFS and amps, and the recommended relationship of amps to the thickness of metal.

And the parts about a MIG weld having cold lap or inadequate penetration and still looking good.

I (and I think we) admire your initiative and taking on a project like this.

But a trailer going over the road needs to be done RIGHT. If it fails, there can be property damage or injuries or fatalities or all of the above.

A trailer is NOT typically a starter/first project.

A welding cart often is, because the scope/scale of the project is smaller and there is typically no (or minimal) chance of a weld/fabrication failure causing a fatality. Property damage to your own stuff if the cart fails and the machine falls and breaks, but not typically chances for fatalities. Especially to others.

Besides, a welding cart is usually darn useful and handy. As you found out with your wooden one. Low on funds? Find or scrounge a steel bed frame that someone is tossing out and use that to make a metal welding cart.

You ground away the galvanization before your welded, so that was good.

Your one pic of some welds showed nice even and consistent welds, so that was good.

You didn't wrap the welds around the corners, so that was bad.

You didn't understand that the WFS -is- the amps being used for the arc weld. So that was bad.

We're trying to encourage you, but you have to do it right.

So, I say it here in plain English.

STOP!

Your weld that you showed -looks- nice, but if the WFS/amps was turned down low there is a big chance that the welds did NOT properly fuse into the parent material and make a proper weld with adequate penetration/fusion. And that means the weld has to be ground out and redone.

Read up, and ask questions, and practice. After you do that for a while, -then- maybe weld the trailer project together (with some supervision or oversight).

Because if you have a poor or inadequate weld on a trailer going down the road, there is a real chance of causing damage and injury and fatalities.

[specter]

Honda what was the thickness of the metal you welded on might just be me but it appears 1/4" and the welds appear to be sitting on top of the "base" trailer metal. You really needed to read up on the manual and capabilities of that 115v mig that you have! Most 115v migs are capable of 3/16" but anything over that is pushing the limits.

You should have practiced on a couple of pieces before hard to make sure you have all your settings correct. Then try breaking those practice pieces to see if you got good penetration. I see almost no discoloration around the weld area meaning it the heat was too low. If you can snap or break off the weld then you need to examine what went wrong reexamine all your settings then practice some more.

If this trailer is going to be used on the road you should second guess your welds.

Moonrise suggested some good link to read up on. And Sundown had some good advice to follow.

A wooden welding cart. I surprised Duanne didn't recommend one of the favorites here of making the welding cart out of old metal bed frames. The bed frames can be found around town on trash day!! It great metal for making welding carts and your getting it for free. You'll find many of the folks are at Welding Web have made their welding carts out of metal bed frame. And metal shelving from old shelves or cabinets makes a great base/bottom of the cart to rest the welder on! And yest that metal can be found on most trash days as well.

[hondarancher4435]

thanks for all the great advice and yes i will read those links tomorrow. i really need to get this trailer done in less than a month but i think i have an old bed frame laying around that i could throw together real quick for a metal cart.

not saying that i did it right or anything but you said if i could break the welds than they were bad but just how the toung is attached to the one peice of angle now i had to pull it around my yard over some ruts and stuff so it got jerked around pretty good and there was no signs of fatigue whatsoever.

and my plan is when i get it done to load it up and pull it on some back roads hit all the bumps and ruts i can because if it can stand up to that without a problem then i'm sure it will do fine on smoothe highways and such.

please don't think i am just skipping over all your advice i am taking all of it into consideration and it is great to have some people with alot of experience help me out. i will be sure to read all those links and i will see if i can't get a welding cart built in the next few days.

[Broccoli1]

Originally Posted by specter

Honda what was the thickness of the metal you welded on might just be me but it appears 1/4" and the welds appear to be sitting on top of the "base" trailer metal. You really needed to read up on the manual and capabilities of that 115v mig that you have! Most 115v migs are capable of 3/16" but anything over that is pushing the limits.

I would bet the trailer is 3/16ths but.....

.023 solid wire