How not to wire a breaker box

[Road Warrior]

First pic is of the breaker box in my house. I remarried almost 3 years ago and moved in here. I took the cover off one day to add in another outlet, and I nearly fell over. I can't believe somebody would do this.
Note how all the wires are stuffed through one hole.
Nearly every wire was connected to the breaker with a jumper and wire nuts.

Second pic is after I got everything straightened out. I remodeled the kitchen this winter and had easy access to the back side of the breaker box, so I pulled every wire out and started over.
Amazing, but all the wires were even long enough there wasn't even a need for jumpers and wire nuts when I got done.

[mudbugone]

That first picture looks just like the panel in my shop....Honest I didn't do it,but it makes you wonder what some people are thinking(?)

Looks like you got it all straightened out ...amazing difference. I need to replace mine too and I've got another bigger panel to replace it with.

[Broccoli1]

uh, so what happened with the wire coming outta da hole- botton left?

[Boostinjdm]

At least your place had breakers. Mine had about a dozen fuse panel put where-ever was convienient at the time. Circuits overlapping and hot wires in the walls. All fixed now, just had to tear the whole house apart to do it. I sleep better now too.

[jbman45]

Ah, can't quite tell; but please tell me the wire coming into the box is NOT aluminum wire? That's what was done years ago when houses wired with aluminum wire was used incorrectly and they put in copper to aluminum pig tails, used aluminum corrosion compound in the wire nut, then ran the copper to the breaker.

Doesn't look like it is aluminum, hope not. The code was changed due to fires and overheating. Have to use receptacles now that show al-cu on them which are designed for aluminum and copper.

Good job in fixing it, today if your house is alum. wire you might be able to change breakers I don't know you would have to ask an electrician on that who is currently up to speed.

[fbrown333]

Good job. When I moved into my house (it was built in 1919). They only had screw in fuses with the clothtype copper wire on the ceramic insulators. They had the entire house less the range tied into 1(ONE) 30 amp screw in fuse They had the range tied too 2 30 amp fuses
Needless to say I had the entire thing redone and brought up to code with a nice 200 amp service

[denrep]

Another in a WeldingWeb series - Service Panels That Make You Say Hmmm...

Hmmm... Maybe Jbman45 is right about the pig-tails, the panel could be, or maybe was thought to be, aluminum wired.

But... there are no ground conductors, and being BG (before ground) makes aluminum conductors seem less likely. Hmmm...

Hmmm... I also wonder how the rewired board picked up three or four vacancies, because in the before picture, it looks like all breakers were occupied.

I'm sure the pictures were taken before a few minor details were finished, such as the mouse-hole being capped, and the kindling cleaned out.

Road Warrior - It was a good idea to tidy the panel up, especially getting rid of the crowded hole without a bushing.

Please fill in the blanks for us in the next episode.

Happy Mother's Day

[Sparky#1]

Personally being an electrician,I would suggest pulling that pane out altogether. The ground lug is the closest to the main I've ever seen. For now put a romex squeeze connector on that cable on the bottom left.

[metalmeltr]

we had to take off the cover on ours yesterday and we have a wire that comes into the panel but isnt conected to any thing. The main feed wires appeadred to be aluminum but the feeds to outlets and everything in the house is copper

[Tony D]

If you have an older box or the house has sat empty or in a damp location...Have your breakers load tested or hook a jumper wire on em unhook your house feed to each one, and ground them with the jumper with insulated gloves ...I just ground out the wall plugs every now and then ....they will arc good....
and test the breakers if they shut off they will save your house if the breaker is corroded and starts buzzing and the wire turns red shut off the main and the breaker is bad remove and replace....

I have found like a dozen of these breakers that are locked on in the last 20 years and that is not a good thing and a new well a year old square D 150 AMP. Main breaker go bad only one leg was putting out and that is just wrong for a new unit...
so be careful reworking those old boxes as they may appear to be usable you have to load test those old breakers to know if they are working or just a stuck switch usually if you can turn them on and off without resistance or crackling or popping inside they usually check out to be good

Myself doing all the work to that set up it deserved a new box as it appears to be maxed out and eventually you will need more spaces or someone will need them down the road and the ground bar is close on those boxes but they have worked this long and ya a hit lock insulator we call em they pop in the plastic type can be wrapped around that wire and and snapped in there to keep it off the box .....you did good looks alot better

[Road Warrior]

Relax fellas, my entrance cable is copper, not aluminum as some of you think.
The wire on the bottom left has been ran through a squeeze clamp, and yes, the huge rat hole in the middle has been capped. I had to make a trip into town for those two items, thus they weren't in the picture yet.

All the wiring in the house is copper. I haven't found any aluminum anywhere, and I've had every light switch and outlet out since I've moved in.
Also, all the fuses are being used. I think I took the 2nd picture before I got everything stuck back in and hooked up.

I can honestly say I sleep better at night now!!

[jbman45]

Hey that's great! It was a big problem some years ago as the circuit breakers were not made for aluminum, and wall receptcales, and they would loosen and overheat over time and there were fires.

Aluminum from the pole to your house(main or weatherhead) is legal and typical, nothing wrong with that for anyone reading. The elec. company uses the right gauge of wire, larger, and proper pressure clamps. The big problem was aluminum wire after the individual house breakers running power to lights, receptacles and other stuff in the house.

Sounds like you're done!!

[dougspair]

Yes....a mess, #1 rule is, never a wire-nut in the box....this looks like stuff
I found at the place I work (I'm Maint man)...last Maint. guy did stuff like the picture but more crowded....claimed he was a 'Journeymen Electrician'......some 4X4 and 5X5 boxes were so filled, he must have used a rubber mallet to pound all the stuff in there.....same deal, jumpers and lots of wire-nuts...usually 2 sizes to big....

[William McCormick Jr]

Originally Posted by Road Warrior

First pic is of the breaker box in my house. I remarried almost 3 years ago and moved in here. I took the cover off one day to add in another outlet, and I nearly fell over. I can't believe somebody would do this.
Note how all the wires are stuffed through one hole.
Nearly every wire was connected to the breaker with a jumper and wire nuts.

Second pic is after I got everything straightened out. I remodeled the kitchen this winter and had easy access to the back side of the breaker box, so I pulled every wire out and started over.
Amazing, but all the wires were even long enough there wasn't even a need for jumpers and wire nuts when I got done.

Your Romex connectors are in backwards in some cases. That is not allowed near me.

You cannot have the screws in the box, according to code.

But it is probably better then it was.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[Road Warrior]

Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr

Your Romex connectors are in backwards in some cases. That is not allowed near me.

You cannot have the screws in the box, according to code.

But it is probably better then it was.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

Yeah, I figured somebody would catch that. Problem is, where I live there are no code inspectors. The only thing inspected is plumbing for new construction, but anyone can wire any building. What kind of sense does that make??

I was always told anyone can be a plumber - hot's on the left, cold is on the right, $hit runs downhill and payday is Friday!

[Billdacat]

Originally Posted by Road Warrior

Yeah, I figured somebody would catch that. Problem is, where I live there are no code inspectors. The only thing inspected is plumbing for new construction, but anyone can wire any building. What kind of sense does that make??

I was always told anyone can be a plumber - hot's on the left, cold is on the right, $hit runs downhill and payday is Friday!

I might add "Don't bite your fingernails"

[Norcal01]

Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr

Your Romex connectors are in backwards in some cases. That is not allowed near me.

You cannot have the screws in the box, according to code.

But it is probably better then it was.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

Would you please provide the relevant code section prohibiting that? A prev.poster said never put a wire nut in a panel, there are NO rules prohibiting that in the NEC, in a panel replacement job, sometimes there is a need to do so......

[Sparky#1]

Originally Posted by Norcal01

Would you please provide the relevant code section prohibiting that? A prev.poster said never put a wire nut in a panel, there are NO rules prohibiting that in the NEC, in a panel replacement job, sometimes there is a need to do so......

An inspector will not pass a new panel with wirenuts in it period. Only feeds come into a panel from a junction box where splices take place.

[JC'sWelding]

Man, I've got to admire your talents guys. I look at BOTH of those pictures and still see nothing but wires. I guess that's why I have to pay out the nose to a professional.

[sparkyman65]

Ditto with what the other Sparky said first. I would redo that set up, but it will work fine. It looks like an ITE brand of panel to me. If you need space in the future you can get a quad breaker and gain another two pole.

[Road Warrior]

Originally Posted by sparkyman65

Ditto with what the other Sparky said first. I would redo that set up, but it will work fine. It looks like an ITE brand of panel to me. If you need space in the future you can get a quad breaker and gain another two pole.

You are correct, it's an I-T-E panel.
If I was going to live here forever, I'd pull it out and go with a Square D.
We're planning on building a new house in 3-5 years, so I'm not gonna invest much more money here on this place. I've already spent about a bazillion bucks here in 3 years.

[Norcal01]

Originally Posted by Sparky#1

An inspector will not pass a new panel with wirenuts in it period. Only feeds come into a panel from a junction box where splices take place.

So it's a inspector making up codes? Those folks irk me, cite a code section or forget it..
There is nothing to prohibit splices in a panel in the NEC, it's just a urban legend.

Sorry in the delay in replying.

[Sparky#1]

Originally Posted by Norcal01

So it's a inspector making up codes? Those folks irk me, cite a code section or forget it..
There is nothing to prohibit splices in a panel in the NEC, it's just a urban legend.

Sorry in the delay in replying.

I just did a job repairing a panel with splices in it. building codes in N.Y.C prohibit splicing in panels. A box has to be used outside of the panel with only 3 feet of Romex or Bx exposed. Look it up yourself NEC code is minimum requirements and mediocre at best.

[daddy]

If a wirenut is good enough in a j-box why wouldn't it be ok in the biggest j-box in the house?

I'm not doubting your experience Sparky#1, but what's the beef?

I've never had a problem with a wirenut in the panel.

[Norcal01]

Originally Posted by Sparky#1

I just did a job repairing a panel with splices in it. building codes in N.Y.C prohibit splicing in panels. A box has to be used outside of the panel with only 3 feet of Romex or Bx exposed. Look it up yourself NEC code is minimum requirements and mediocre at best.

You won't find 3 feet in the NEC either, more urban legends...

It does depend on the jurisdiction, here everything up to the 8' level must be covered.