Lister Diesel Troubleshooting

[joethemechanic]

Me? What do I know. Everyone knows that the best mechanics have Huge Snap-On tool boxes with murals of race cars on the side, and they drive around in new SUVs wearing expensive sunglasses.

I am just a dumb junk man.

[duaneb55]

Originally Posted by joethemechanic

Me? What do I know. Everyone knows that the best mechanics have Huge Snap-On tool boxes with murals of race cars on the side, and they drive around in new SUVs wearing expensive sunglasses.

I am just a dumb junk man.

. . .and carry a diagnostics reader on their belt.

[joethemechanic]

Originally Posted by duaneb55

. . .and carry a diagnostics reader on their belt.

And replace tons of parts. Replacing lots of stuff is the sign of a quality job.

Oh and they have clean bathrooms too.

And their shops are clean. And you never see any junk around. No homemade tools or shop equipment. They only buy the best.

[Boostinjdm]

Update.

Finally got the OK to move forward on this thing. Tossed the pto shaft in the junk and switched to an automotive drive shaft. Split gearcase and removed contents. So after several days of trying to track down the proper parts. I started off the day with a challenge. How to connect this driveshaft to this generator shaft....

[Boostinjdm]

You use one of these. It will have the keyway broached tommarrow and then I will build a full guard and hopefully wave bye bye to this thing. Anybody want to tell me what they think this one of a kind adapter is worth?

[Boostinjdm]

Couple questions.

The lift pump loses prime after sitting a few days. Will an auto parts store carry a rebuild kit for this? Anybody know a part #, brand of pump, or anything else that might help me help them get the right parts? I have noticed that if I hit the manual primer several times before starting that I don't have any problems. I would prefer to fix the pump, but is it OK if I don't? I mean, will it only get worse?

What should I set the voltage at? Right now the engine runs at approx 1800rpm and the gen is putting out 244 volts with no load. Should I bump it up to 250v to compensate for the engine slowing down under heavy load? One of the farmers I do work for mentioned his standby runs at 250v and with my house at 254v, this doesn't seem out of line. The engine just has throttle stops for speed control, no gov.

Customer stopped by today and I got partial payment, the rest due when I deliver it. He was smiling the whole time. Just have to address the questions above and It will be done.

If it quits raining tomarrow, I will get it out in the daylight and take some final pics. Turned out pretty good for using stuff bought from several different farm sales. I even guarded the driveshaft and gave it a good coat of safety yellow. I didn't cheese out and just guard the top either. It's guarded all the way around. Almost idiot proof, almost.

[denrep]

Originally Posted by Boostinjdm

. . .The lift pump loses prime after sitting a few days. . . .

. . .What should I set the voltage at? Right now the engine runs at approx 1800rpm and the gen is putting out 244 volts with no load. Should I bump it up to 250v to compensate for the engine slowing down under heavy load? One of the farmers I do work for mentioned his standby runs at 250v and with my house at 254v, this doesn't seem out of line. The engine just has throttle stops for speed control, no gov.

Installing a one-way check valve in the fuel pick up's suction line should solve the bleed-off problem.

HZ is more critical than voltage. Engine's high idle (maximum speed) should be adjusted so that the generator is producing 60HZ. Of course engine's engine's rated maximum speed must not be exceeded.

Good Luck.

[duaneb55]

I aggree 100% with denrep - a check valve in the fuel pick up line at the tank will solve your fuel drainback problem.

Also as he stated, frequency is much more important than voltage with low Hz being worse than slightly high. Acceptable operating range is 60Hz (59.9 actually) +/- 2Hz. I typically set my generators for a no-load frequency of 61-62Hz and make sure it doesn't drop below 59 under load. Governor 'droop' (sensitivity) dictates how high the no-load setting needs to be.

Speaking of governors, the governor would be internal to the fuel pump on that Lister and hence no additional external linkage. It should also be a 'variable speed' type used for stationary drivers as apposed to a 'limiting speed' governor used for road vehicles. Variable speed is best and again, it's droop characteristics will dictate what your no-load frequency setting needs to be to assure it stays above acceptable low end under full load.

[joethemechanic]

If you don't have anything to check frequency, you can use an old type clock that has an electric motor and gears.

You plug the clock into the generator and when you get it to keep time the generator will be running the correct speed.

And when you are working on generators, it is better to use an analog volt ohm meter

[Boostinjdm]

I think I will be going shopping later for a new meter, cuz mine does not have the correct functions.
Frequency would be a nice function to have. If I remember right, you can also use it as a tach.

[duaneb55]

This little unit http://www.energyfederation.org/cons.../cPath/388_254 is what I use. Displays volts and frequency of input power and can be used to monitor up to a 15amp output load in amps or watts.

[Boostinjdm]

Here's some pics. Let's just say that photography is not one of my better skills.

[joethemechanic]

Looks good. What is he using this for?

[Boostinjdm]

Originally Posted by joethemechanic

Looks good. What is he using this for?

Dust storage I think.

[shallett]

I just wanted to say thanks for this thread, especially to DENREP. I just acquired a similar Lister Diesel with a similar starting problem after having moved it to my location. I opened the two bleeder screws on the top of the fuel filter and cranked the starter until nothing but fuel came out around the two bleeder screws. That was all it took!

Here's some pics of my three cylinder, 1800 HP, Lister Diesel attached to a 10 KW generator.

My plan is to get it rewired and hooked into the house for emergency power. Any tips or info or where I might find any operation or maintenance manuals would be great. Thanks, Stan

[shallett]

Boostinjdm, in the 2nd image you posted in this thread you can see a large blue hose going to the backside of a gauge. In the 3rd image that you posted you can see that gauge on the far left.

My question is, what king of gauge is this and where does the hose come from?

I ask because it you look at the 1st image that I posted, you can see a similar blue hose that is only connected to the crankcase on one end. The other end is not attached to anything, but is held to the block with a wire tie. You may also be able to see a plate on the side of the control panel with a hole in it that looks like it had a gauge in it at one time.

I'm trying to find the missing link.

Thanks

[Boostinjdm]

Mine was for oil pressure. I have since delivered this project to it's owner, so I can't run out and look. I still do lot's of work for these guys. If I see it around, I'll take a closer look at it.

[Blacksea7]

Your SR-3 is one tough girl... Anything any of you need to know about any of the Listers from the L through the J series, regardless of age, contact me.... Alpha included... I worked on and with the Corporate end of Lister for 23 years.. I've every book published as well as having most of it stuck in my head. As for the blue line there is on an SR, no factory oil gallery where your blue line seems to go, behind the pump housing or cover. In so far as any gauge you might think good to have on the engine, don't do it. 99% of ALL lister failures were due to people hanging gauges and such on the engine... the engine is tough with a factory build life of 20,000 hours on the S range and 40,000 on the H and J range. Drop the electrics other than perhaps the starter. If the engine is in remotely good shape it'll start with the and crank well below zero without issues. Find me, I'll show you how!
Anything you need to know, find me.

[Boostinjdm]

Got word from the guy today that this generator works good. He said he's used it once so far and has it ready to go for the freezing rain we are supposed to get this week. He is using it to run 3 hog buildings.

[Boostinjdm]

Just thought I'd pop in with another update. Genny has been used several times throughout the winter with only a minor problem with the murphy switch. They did complain about it only running 23 hrs on a tank of fuel. I didn't figure it would be a problem cuz they only live about a mile or two from the site and have to do chores every day anyways...

[duaneb55]

Awesome news 'Jim' . Owner probably expected it to run for days with that fuel tank.

Always nice to know when your hard work pays off.

[imc188222]

Very interesting thread. thanks

[William McCormick Jr]

Originally Posted by duaneb55

I aggree 100% with denrep - a check valve in the fuel pick up line at the tank will solve your fuel drainback problem.

Also as he stated, frequency is much more important than voltage with low Hz being worse than slightly high. Acceptable operating range is 60Hz (59.9 actually) +/- 2Hz. I typically set my generators for a no-load frequency of 61-62Hz and make sure it doesn't drop below 59 under load. Governor 'droop' (sensitivity) dictates how high the no-load setting needs to be.

Speaking of governors, the governor would be internal to the fuel pump on that Lister and hence no additional external linkage. It should also be a 'variable speed' type used for stationary drivers as apposed to a 'limiting speed' governor used for road vehicles. Variable speed is best and again, it's droop characteristics will dictate what your no-load frequency setting needs to be to assure it stays above acceptable low end under full load.

You want to get the hertz accurate. If you power a 60 hertz electric motor with 70 hertz, it will have to turn much faster to avoid slipping, the sync with the supply power hertz. Slipping is the technical term for it. The RPM's of AC induction motors, is set by Hertz, not voltage or anything else.

When you turn a motor faster under the same load, you need to make more horse power. When you call for more horse power you need more amps. Since a 60 hertz motor getting 70 hertz will not be as strong as a 60 hertz motor getting sixty hertz to begin with. You escalate the problem two fold.
What ever the generator is supposed to output just make sure you are very near the proper hertz.

Some motor run capacitors made for sixty hertz will blow if you supply them 70 hertz. They will just pop.

So the right hertz are the most important thing. I have a cheap radio shack meter that does hertz, I could send it if you if you are interested. I am going to the post office tomorrow to mail a foot pedal. Let me know.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[Farm1]

Originally Posted by Blacksea7

Your SR-3 is one tough girl... Anything any of you need to know about any of the Listers from the L through the J series, regardless of age, contact me.... Alpha included... I worked on and with the Corporate end of Lister for 23 years.. I've every book published as well as having most of it stuck in my head. As for the blue line there is on an SR, no factory oil gallery where your blue line seems to go, behind the pump housing or cover. In so far as any gauge you might think good to have on the engine, don't do it. 99% of ALL lister failures were due to people hanging gauges and such on the engine... the engine is tough with a factory build life of 20,000 hours on the S range and 40,000 on the H and J range. Drop the electrics other than perhaps the starter. If the engine is in remotely good shape it'll start with the and crank well below zero without issues. Find me, I'll show you how!
Anything you need to know, find me.

Hi blacksea7, I do have a lister engine like the BostingJDM is showing and the injection
pump is missing need to find the model and where can I get one, It dosent have the info
tag, no idea what model or year but looking the one on the picture is exactly like mine,
Help will be very well appreciate.:

[PhilipD]

Originally Posted by Blacksea7

Your SR-3 is one tough girl... Anything any of you need to know about any of the Listers from the L through the J series, regardless of age, contact me.... Alpha included... I worked on and with the Corporate end of Lister for 23 years.. I've every book published as well as having most of it stuck in my head. As for the blue line there is on an SR, no factory oil gallery where your blue line seems to go, behind the pump housing or cover. In so far as any gauge you might think good to have on the engine, don't do it. 99% of ALL lister failures were due to people hanging gauges and such on the engine... the engine is tough with a factory build life of 20,000 hours on the S range and 40,000 on the H and J range. Drop the electrics other than perhaps the starter. If the engine is in remotely good shape it'll start with the and crank well below zero without issues. Find me, I'll show you how!
Anything you need to know, find me.

I have a Lister SR3 also. It is labeled as a Monarch Engine inside of a USAF EMU-19/U ( 10Kw, 3ph, 400Hz, 2000RPM ). I got it from a scrapyard in many pieces in 1995. I bought a ring and bearing set from Rudox engine and epoxyed and fiberglass tape over the crack in the fuel rail at the return line connector. I had it running by '02 but the governer would oscillate if the voltage was changed. As I wanted it for charging batteries and running non frequency sensitive equipment at varriable voltages, I removed the electronic governer and converted the overspeed detector back to a mechanical governor much like Lister provided on the engine. I connected the manual fuel control on the front panel as an enging stop. It operates now but doesn't keep a very constant speed. I think that the weights are too light and rudox ( and 2 other companies ) want way too much money for the weights and springs for 2000 RPM.

Do you know how many lbs of force is in the linkage at full throttle ?

The governer weights have no ID and each has 2 ea 3/8in holes drilled clear thru them, is this correct for 572-11380 ?

Is there a way to find out the proper weight of a 572-11380 ?

I could then add lead or setscrews to the holes to make them correct, and hope that the springs are correct. If I remove the governor assy and put it in a drill is it allowed to show hysteries with speed without the speeder spring as load ?

PhilipD