Beginner Arc Welding help

[xubby]

I purchased a cheap harbor freight Arc AC/DC welder: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=97719

I'm trying to use 3/32 6011 rods on multiple types of metal thick thin medium and I can't even get an arc to go. I've arc welded in the past its just been some years since I attempted. I've tried every power setting from having the machine turned all the way down on ac to all the way up on DC. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I strike the arc and 99 times out of 100 it'll just stick or start and go out. It's like there's not even enough power to get the weld going... I purchased this welder to do just a little welding once in a blue moon, what am I doing wrong? I have it hooked up to the my dryer outlet.

[smawgmaw]

xubby, part of the problem is the machine itself. If you check the specs on it:
"Max open circuit voltage (AC operation) 25.2V adjustable; (DC operation)24V adjustable". This states the ability of the machine to start and maintain a beginning arc, which for this machine is very low. A good many machines have open circuit voltage (ocv) ratings which are considerably higher, anywhere from 60 on up. Im afraid this machine just doesnt have enough oomph. You can get it to weld but it will take a lot more patience and practice. If you decide you dont like it, I hope you can return for refund.

[DesertRider33]

Drop down to 1/16" 6011 and run it DC+. If it won't burn that, take it back and get your money back, then go look on Craig's List online classifieds and find a used Lincoln Tombstone or Miller Thunderbolt.

[xubby]

I will try picking up 6011 1/16''. I paid $100 for the machine it says it can take up 1/16'' 3/32'' or 1/8'' electrodes but it doesn't seem that way. I planned on using it to mess with some old cast items I had laying around with ni-99x nickel 3/32 rod with a torch to heat it up... I wonder if it'll even burn that..

[xubby]

Should the electrode just bond to the metal as soon as you touch it? like every time I try to tap or strike it the damn thing just attracts to it like its a magnet... I'll hold it above the metal and touch to strike while trying to pull back very quickly and boom i'm stuck... over and over... I know I'm not very experienced but I don't remember all these problems

[smawgmaw]

I dont believe you are the problem. I think its more of the machine's nature with the low ocv.

[Oldiron2]

When you first touch the electrode to the work, the current causes a small amount of metal to melt at the surface of both, which establishes a better circuit (that is, a short circuit) and, now having less resistance, allows the molten metal to cool again. If you quickly move the electrode away before the metal cools, it obviously won't stick. With a higher OCV machine, as you move the electrode away, the arc will be able to jump a greater distance before going out. [I believe my old AC-DC machine is rated 78v]. With a smaller OCV, the arc will be extinguished while it is much shorter, meaning it requires much more control to quickly move the tip away, but only a few hairs widths! instead of maybe an eighth of an inch.
Well, maybe a hair more for you....but it won't seem like it.
Also, the same amperage at a lower voltage has correspondingly less 'power', meaning heat produced; the initial spot of molten metal will be a smaller quantity with the lower OCV, so will cool faster with a lower OCV machine.

[xubby]

I guess I will just keep trying and see how it works out. If it gets too frustrating I'll try returning it. Thanks for all the help everyone

[Craig in Denver]

I just started Stick 101 class. They started us on 6012 cause it's easy. When I switched to 6010, I started stickin' worse. So I wonder if you'd have better luck learning with 3/32" 6012. Or even 1/16" 6012. I'm not sure where 6011 fits in with the sticking issue. Welding is hard enough to learn correctly, without fighting poor equipment. I don't know how horror frieght stays in business with some of the chit they sell.

Or, instead of tapping your rod on the metal, try dragging it across the surface. When you get it sparkin', try raising it a few 'Oldiron2' hairs.

[xubby]

I tried dragging it to strike it, but as soon as the electrode touches the metal it locks up or it wont keep welding it'll start burning and go out. It's not very hard to get off the metal it just locks up. I've only got one little blob of metal out of a few hours of trying. I got completely frustrated so I gave up figuring it was me... I'm not even trying to lay a bead, I'm just trying to get the dang thing to start even if it's just a puddle of molten metal... When I did get it going the tip got red and it wouldn't continue... I tried pulling it out a little, or pushing it in a little but it'd just die out lol.

[Craig in Denver]

Since that's a 220v unit, it shouldn't have any trouble running a 3/32" rod. Did you wire the plug?

How thick is the material you're trying to practice on?

[xubby]

I wired the plug, and the metal was about 1/8th or so I'd say... low voltage and all the way up, both AC & DC.

[Ron]

Bought an old (1959 lincoln 180-S) arc welder and connecting to 60amp service. New to arc welding. Any suggestions on how to start to learn? Size stick, type metal, thickness?

[snoeproe]

IMO, 7014 (farmers rod) is the rod to use for beginners. Any 230v arc welder should have no problem with a 3/32 dia rod. Scratching the rod on the work is the best way to start the arc when your a beginner. Another good idea is reading a good beginners arc welding book. Another good idea is to only buy good quality name brand welding rod, not the no name brand el-cheapo stuff.

[xubby]

The more I read the more I think the OCV is the main problem... Do certain rods work better with low OCV then others? Will I have a prob with the nickel rods? Will heating up the material help?

[*chris*]

I would start with 6013 rod, 6011 is a really hard rod to start learning stick welding with. Do you have anyone that can show you how to weld?

3/32" rod should be around 80-90 amps which sounds like it is within the capbility of that machine.

With 6013 rod you just drag the rod across the surface of the metal to start the arc.

Harbor Freight tools are really hit and miss, maybe this one is a lemon?

Chris

[Craig in Denver]

I think newer electrical codes call for a 4 wire plug at the dryer, older codes were 3 wire. If you wired your plug without allowing for the difference, that could be the problem. Someone else will have to answer those questions.

[DesertRider33]

The reason some dryers use a 4-wire connection is because they have 115v electronics inside that need the nuetral wire connection to operate. Otherwise, all that's needed to run an electric dry heating element and 220v motor is the 3 wires (2 hots and a ground).

[xubby]

Apparently I may have it wired to my dryer wrong (3 prong)... I have the black hooked to the L shaped dryer plug, which I've been reading is a hot wire... would this cause my issue with getting it started?

[jroyster06]

edit your profile lets us know where you are someone maybe close enough to come help you out

[Craig in Denver]

Originally Posted by jroyster06

edit your profile lets us know where you are someone maybe close enough to come help you out

xubby:
If you'd like, you can go up to User CP and add your location. It will show up, in the upper right corner of all your posts, where mine says Colorado.

Broccoli1 has posted a great drawing of how to wire a plug, but I don't remember where it is. Maybe someone else does.

DR33:
Thanks for the 3 & 4 wire difference.

[Oldiron2]

MicroZone posted a picture of an L6-50 plug being wired in the first post of the still-running thread "HOW TO - make a 220V extension cord":

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=11537

Besides being a likely hazard,

it sounds as if you are running the machine on 110v rather than 220v, with the leads mixed up as you stated; this would explain the problem, 'cause your OCV would be about half the already low value the machine is rated for.

[DesertRider33]

The L-shaped center/top pin on the plug is for the ground wire. The side two straight blades are for the hots and the lower straight blade is for the neutral. On the 3-wire plug, is the same except no lower blade for the nuetral.

Always check your outlet with a volt meter for correct wiring before assuming it is wired to standard practice. If not, FIRST SHUT OFF THE BREAKER and then re-do the connections in the right places and match the plug to the outlet. If you're not sure which breaker it is, SHUT THEM ALL OFF, or shut it off at the main.

3-wire connection without Nuetral-
Green = ground
Black = hot
White = hot

Always test the wires to be sure what they are, color is not always a sure thing, especially if someone has been making their own connections.

[xubby]

Thanks for all the help .