230V Miller into 30amp dryer plug. Questions.

[BinderBuilder]

I am new here and new to the welding world. I just got a Millermatic 211 and have been having a great time on 110v but now I really want to up the HP and get welding in 230v. I have an extra 30amp dryer plug in my house but obviously it has the weird 3 flat "dryer" prong plug. The miller has a large but normal looking male end. Obviously they do not fit together.

Can I get an adapter at a Home Depot type place?

Can I make an extension cord that has a dryer style male end with a "welder" style female end?

Can I rewire that socket to use the "welder" style plug?

Any help would be great, sure would like to use my machine the way it was meant to be. I am very new to this so please let me know what my options are, I doubt I am the first to have this problem.

[Supe]

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=11537&page=5

Post #108.

Did it with a 100 ft 12-3 cord for my inverter TIG, works like a champ. You can buy everything you need from Home Cheapo, including the ends. If its the older 3 pin dryer plug, use a NEMA 10-30P connector, and a NEMA 6-50R receptacle box on the other end. Home Depot sells a GREAT 12-3 cord for cheap. $90 something for a 100 footer, very heavy jacket, but very fine strands and super flexible. It's made by Ridgid.

[CharleyL]

For a 30 amp circuit you should have used #10 ga wire. If you short circuit or somehow overload the cord that you made it will draw 30 amps + before the breaker or fuse trips and your 12 ga cord will likely burn up, setting fire to who knows what around it. If you are going to use 12 ga wire you should install a 20 amp breaker/fuse and a 20 amp outlet to plug it into. Using that dryer outlet and the 30 amps that is available is going to get you into serious trouble.

Charley .

[fhsfiremanco1]

Originally Posted by CharleyL

For a 30 amp circuit you should have used #10 ga wire. If you short circuit or somehow overload the cord that you made it will draw 30 amps + before the breaker or fuse trips and your 12 ga cord will likely burn up, setting fire to who knows what around it. If you are going to use 12 ga wire you should install a 20 amp breaker/fuse and a 20 amp outlet to plug it into. Using that dryer outlet and the 30 amps that is available is going to get you into serious trouble.

Charley .

You are very right. 10 wire would be the smallest i would use, that also still depends on how long the cord needs to be. Just because it calls for 10 wire doesn't mean voltage drop isn't gonna be a problem.

Here is a little tool
http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

[Broccoli1]

Originally Posted by Supe

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=11537&page=5

Post #108.

Did it with a 100 ft 12-3 cord for my inverter TIG, works like a champ. You can buy everything you need from Home Cheapo, including the ends. If its the older 3 pin dryer plug, use a NEMA 10-30P connector, and a NEMA 6-50R receptacle box on the other end. Home Depot sells a GREAT 12-3 cord for cheap. $90 something for a 100 footer, very heavy jacket, but very fine strands and super flexible. It's made by Ridgid.

Supe,
#108 is for a Twist Lock but the Dryer wiring should be in that thread some where

[Broccoli1]

Originally Posted by CharleyL

For a 30 amp circuit you should have used #10 ga wire. If you short circuit or somehow overload the cord that you made it will draw 30 amps + before the breaker or fuse trips and your 12 ga cord will likely burn up, setting fire to who knows what around it. If you are going to use 12 ga wire you should install a 20 amp breaker/fuse and a 20 amp outlet to plug it into. Using that dryer outlet and the 30 amps that is available is going to get you into serious trouble.

Charley .

For a Welder you can use a smaller size wire/cord based on the Duty Cycle of the machine. You won't over heat the cord to the point of a Fire.

Voltage drop can be an issue but less likely running 240v.

Short will trip the CB

[fhsfiremanco1]

undersized wire is still a major no no if their is a short or if the breaker is faulty and tripping at higher amps then norm. the wire WILL burn up it has nothing to do with duty cycle more of safety and the CODE.

[Broccoli1]

Originally Posted by fhsfiremanco1

undersized wire is still a major no no if their is a short or if the breaker is faulty and tripping at higher amps then norm. the wire WILL burn up it has nothing to do with duty cycle more of safety and the CODE.

Not a Major No No for welders:

Just some FYI on Welder circuits:

Article 630 covers electric welding equipment with both AC and DC power supplies. This Article provides requirements for sizing over-current devices and conductors for welder circuits. Welders operate intermittently, so based on the Duty Cycle (the percent of time a welder is loaded) the conductors may be smaller than the nameplate rating of the welder. Because welders tend to also have high inrush currents when a weld or welder is started, over-current devices are permitted to have ratings greater than the name plate rating or the conductor ampacity.


That is why you will see in a manual 14g wiring on a 25amp CB

Just an example:
http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o239988e_mil.pdf

[fhsfiremanco1]

I understand that. I had to go to school to do what I do. there is a lot of you need to factor then just duty cycle. like voltage drop. I am not saying your wrong and I am right. but when you add length to the run you are going to have some voltage drop no matter what. I went to school to do what I do. BUT I am not saying I know everything. I am no EE but just an Electrician.

[Broccoli1]

Agreed Voltage Drop
53' On #14 OK

#12 is fine for this application

Not my first choice either but I wouldn't be afraid to do it.


I didn't go to school but I use a lot of Portable Cable in my job

[transit]

You don’t need to be an EE to understand voltage drop. Aside from all the other reasons to allow or disallow de-rating is the question of performance. If the welder supply is under funded the weld will be poor.

[MrBill]

I'm gonna jump in here as I am curious. I know a bit about electrical stuff and I know that you need larger wire for higher loads, etc. Don't know exact sizes required but larger is always better. Everyone is talking #12 and #10 wire for a 220V welder.
The manual for the Millermatic 211 calls for a #14 cord up to 53 feet for 220V. Why would they suggest that if it was required to be 12 or 10?
I don't plan on running mine on that small a cord but I was just curious.
Cheers

[transit]

Originally Posted by MrBill

I'm gonna jump in here as I am curious. I know a bit about electrical stuff and I know that you need larger wire for higher loads, etc. Don't know exact sizes required but larger is always better. Everyone is talking #12 and #10 wire for a 220V welder.
The manual for the Millermatic 211 calls for a #14 cord up to 53 feet for 220V. Why would they suggest that if it was required to be 12 or 10?
I don't plan on running mine on that small a cord but I was just curious.
Cheers

The NEC limits the one way voltage drop of a single conductor to 2% of the applied voltage, 110, 115, 120, 125, 220, 230, 240.
Lets take 110 volts @ 15 amps, the wire conductor has resistance. 2% of 110 volts is 2.2 volts. That is 2.2 volts at 15 amps for one conductor end to end. The resistance of such a conductor is 2.2/15 = 0.146666 Ohms. If one looks through copper wire tables where the resistence is given for gauge wire by 1,000 feet, you can calculate the allowable length of # 14, # 12 and so on. Hence a thicker wire can carry a given current a longer distance or a larger current the same distance.
There are other restrictions, such as the allowable temperature of the wires insulation that also come into play. That’s the short answer.

[fhsfiremanco1]

also derating if its in a raceway with other circuits, there is alot more to it then people see. also i do understand voltage drop. out of 5 years of school it would be the most used thing out of a 5 year course.

[mooseye]

Originally Posted by MrBill

I'm gonna jump in here as I am curious. I know a bit about electrical stuff and I know that you need larger wire for higher loads, etc. Don't know exact sizes required but larger is always better. Everyone is talking #12 and #10 wire for a 220V welder.
The manual for the Millermatic 211 calls for a #14 cord up to 53 feet for 220V. Why would they suggest that if it was required to be 12 or 10?
I don't plan on running mine on that small a cord but I was just curious.
Cheers

I'm gonna choose this as the best answer. I don't think Miller would put theirselves in a position to be liable for a problem.
On that note, anything larger should be better.