howdy everyone!..an introduction with a little rant :)

[dankadlec]

Name is Dan, and I am an entry level welder. Recently I graduated from the 10 week entry level welding course at Canadian Welding Skills up here in canada (Ontario to be more accurate) and can positively say that I am 100% in love with this trade! The best part about this school is that it's a certified CWB and TSSA testing facility! Therefore I had so much fun pushing my learning curve, and attempting in-house test bends for all processes in all the positions I had time to practice and so forth.

To boot, I also learned how to read blueprints rather well! (which originally looked like ancient hieroglyphs when i first looked at a blueprint schematic at the school)

A little about how I ended up being a welder..I originally went to school to become a medical lab tech, and after graduating college I could not find a job in my field, so I went into construction as a grunt. After couple years, I finally landed a job at a research lab. Worked there for 2 years, but started to miss the feeling of working with my hands, getting creative when required and so forth...thus after 5 months of research for the right school, I quit my job, and went to welding school!

I clicked with the whole aspect of welding in general, and successfully became friends with all four processes, with TIG being my best friend! By week 5 at the school, I already attempted three test bends under two governing bodies (two CWB and one TSSA) and passed on first try! I now successfully have the following tickets:

1) CWB MIG flat carbon steel
2) CWB SMAW Flat Carbon steel
3) TSSA GTAW root/SMAW fill carbon steel 1G (V-groove with backing)
- on top of all this, i have proof that i have successfully passed in-house testing (under CWB guidelines, with the exception of GTAW, being under TSSA guidelines) the following: all position stick carbon steel and flat/vertical and horizontal for carbon steel in GTAW, FCAW and GTAW..

Now you would think that for a guy who's starting out, I would have a promising future in this trade providing that I keep on practicing and gain more in depth experience over the years, I would be a half decent welder!

Before I started this current job hunt, I would have agreed with you! But right now, so far the welding industry in canada has severely let me down big time! I have personally spent days on end driving across the province and personally handing out my resume at welding shops, fab shops, you name it. I also sit in front of my computer for about 2 hours every night sending off my resume to job advertisements across canada that I have not applied to, and following up on past resume applications.

The most common response I have recieved these days, is that I am not qualified for their criteria for hiring. It seems that every place that I go to, wants a minimum of 3 years experience!

I can understand the reasoning behind wanting experienced welders, but I have to say that these companies/shops are killing the industry in a way due to the fact that they are not accepting entry level welders, the welders that are going to be following the footsteps of the seasoned welders. By doing this, they are making this trade less appealing for guys like me who are desiring to get in the field so we can learn, get better and be the next generation of welders!

Granted I sound dissappointed, but I am not one to quit! I will get a job sooner or later as a welder, and prove to all these companies that they were idiots for turning me down!

thank you for listening
--dan

[specter]

Hi Ya dankadlec and Welcome to the Welding Web Family. Well that's the round a bout why to get into welding but it gave you a varied background. OK they want experience!! You may not get the starting pay that you want but offer them yourself on a trial basis for less pay or even as an apprentice. Big thing is to get yourself inside the door. Find out what they make for a product then study it and the company history. See if there is a way you can improve their product or service. You have to sell yourself minus the experience.

If you want to post your location, show your personal avatar, or have a signature on each post telling fellow members where you are located; an avatar of you or your shop, and a signature telling fellow members what types of equipment you have, you can do it all by following these steps:

1. Locate and click on USER CP

2. Under YOUR CONTROL PANEL, YOUR PROFILE, click on EDIT YOUR DETAILS

3. In the EDIT YOUR DETAILS, you can enter Optional Information and Additional Information such as your Location (an other info)

4. While in USER CP you can explore some of the other functions

- Avatar: you can have picture of you, your shop, your wife, children, dog, etc (keep it clean- no nudes)

- Signature: you can list all your equipment, a link to your shop, or maybe some witty saying

[dankadlec]

Thanks specter!
The problem with ontario is that they are just starting the apprenticeship program, so its extremely weak right now with lots of flaws, etc. I am more than happy to work for a small shop to gain my experience and define my skills with hours and hours under the hood, it is just hard to get my foot in the door since im competing with seasoned welders.

Essentially I just gotta keep chasing for jobs until i can get my experience!

[Old Fart]

Well son, lets just begin by saying you are at least the 12,797th young man I've heard or read your story from. Lets even take it a step farther, and say your theory is mostly right, some damn fool company is missing the boat by not hiring you. Your first problem is that you are starting out in a crap economy, and bottom line, no matter how many tickets you got in welding school they don't mean diddle to a potential employer.

Employers have largely fallen into a trap called professional managers with MBA degrees. The MBA is absolutely certain that each and every weldor is interchangable, and that resumes and certs hold value. The MBA also is generally completely incapable of walking onto the shop floor and pointing to a TIG machine or a drillpress. He went to a school that told him every worker coming in the door will arrive qualified to do the job he's hired for, show up on time, and do his job in a manner acceptable to the company. I think we all know how that flys in the real world.

Like all young fellows you are in the EXPERIENCE -v- School trap. I'll tell you why employers want experience. There is a lot of mileage between a young man fresh out of school with a book full of tickets and an experienced weldor. Schools offer unlimited time to set up and make a weld, the real world doesn't. The employer has a fairly well known set of costs, including everything from the floor you stand on to the electric bill and the wonderful cost of insurance. He also has a known price he can sell his product for, which has to cover the known costs plus labor. Any potential employer is going to look at his prior experience hiring new school trained weldors, and bounce that against hiring experienced weldors with X years of experience. Generally history will favor hiring experienced weldors. It's been that way for a lot of years. The employer needs a man who can make the weld X number of times a day without somebody looking over his shoulder, or payroll doesn't get made.

The second thing you have going against you is your history. As a potential employer I see a young fellow who dreamed of working in a lab, spent several years in school to learn to work in a lab, got bored and went back to school to learn welding. If I hire you how long will it take for you to get bored with welding and head back to school? Can I recover my investment in hiring you? Will you be profitable to me as an employee? Honestly, I don't see you as a potential profit.

So, to make a long story short, you need to prove yourself before you stand much of a chance. That means you'll have to take a job you probably won't like, that will be way beneath the expectations your instructors filled your head with, and work your way up. If you take that approach your chances will be a hell of a lot better, and you'll have experience in a few years.

[transit]

Dan, with the current economic conditions, the pool of skilled labor is overflowing. So why would anyone what a newbie when a 5,8,12 year veteran is easy to come by? Sucks, but that’s the way it is. Any openings for a med tech?
Hope the other shoe doesn’t drop. Some of the economic predictions are down right white knuckle scary. This health care S*** will drive the US over a cliff. China may have its own real-estate blowout soon. Stay tuned for new developments. Now back to our regular programing.

BTW, don't get me started on MBA's, useless as a horse shoe in a tire factory.

[dankadlec]

you know, old fart, you are absolutely right. I am not debating your words whatsoever. Granted my words seemed a little narrow minded, and I will admit to that.

I do know that experience is the essential key, but in order for that, I do need to obtain any type of job i can in this market and build up my experience. That is where i am running into the brick wall.

As for my past history (my going to college for one year to get my med lab education), it is not how it appears to you guys really..See, I have the stigma of being deaf...so people are always afraid to hire a 250+lb deaf guy who looks like he eats babies for breakfast. LOL

[transit]

Ummmmm......babies! Poached with Basel, wrapped in bacon. White wine.

[Aquafire]

Originally Posted by dankadlec

...the stigma of being deaf...people are always afraid to hire a 250+lb deaf guy...

First, welcome to the forum Dan! I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

You're right that many people are afraid to hire persons with disabilities and as I read your thread I'm wondering how many of those employers you handed a resume to, that shredded it without reading it just because you were disabled.

If it were me, I'd be doing a little checking to see WHO got hired and what their qualifications were. A quick call to the Ontario Human Rights Council might be in order. Just a thought.

In any event, I wish you success in your career, and welcome once again.

[Old Fart]

Originally Posted by dankadlec

you know, old fart, you are absolutely right. I am not debating your words whatsoever. Granted my words seemed a little narrow minded, and I will admit to that.

I do know that experience is the essential key, but in order for that, I do need to obtain any type of job i can in this market and build up my experience. That is where i am running into the brick wall.

As for my past history (my going to college for one year to get my med lab education), it is not how it appears to you guys really..See, I have the stigma of being deaf...so people are always afraid to hire a 250+lb deaf guy who looks like he eats babies for breakfast. LOL

OK, I'm sitting 20 miles from NTID in Rochester, and that well might be the epicenter of deaf people in the US. Around here I guarantee you that the 250#+ would be a bigger disability to you coming in the door than being deaf is. I've got a couple deaf buds, and I can assure you it never held them back getting or keeping a job, and some of the stunts they have pulled would have gotten me walked to the guard shack. I'd rather be working with a deaf guy than some damn fool with an Ipod and earbuds any day.

The baby eating is definitely going to get yo some strange looks, but wiping the residue off your face and walking in looking ike a man should solve that. I well remember back in the 80s when I spent a lot of time hiring the receptionist sent far more people back out the door than I did because of the way they treated her or acted in the waiting room. If you got past Evelyn you were half way to being hired.

You're deaf, and aparently have been for a while, it ain't going to change. While it is a limitation, it is also an extra EEOC point for a potential employer. The fact that you made it thru school proves you can compensate for not hearing, and you should emphacize that to a potential employer. The people doing the hiring probably aren't accustomed to dealing with deaf people, so you need to educate and enlighten them. Proving you are a potential asset to the company will take some extra work on your part. Your attitude is going to be a very large part of getting your foot in the door. So is your appearance.
Whatever you do, if you see a baby don't dump mustard on the kid and start munching.

[transit]

Here is a unique thought, how about losing 100 pounds and getting into shape? Construction sites are dangerous places to work, do you wear a hearing aid and will it work in a construction site. Forget about all the equal rights crap, do you hear well enough to be safety problem to yourself and others? Don’t see too many blind steel workers working hi-iron.

[dankadlec]

Originally Posted by transit

Here is a unique thought, how about losing 100 pounds and getting into shape?

no offence but that just made me laugh my butt off! Im technically a meathead LOL.

To answer the other questions, no my hearing does not restrict the job site safety in any terms whatsoever. I have the cochlear implant, so it does help. I played high caliber football in highschool (starting fullback), rugby (took my earpiece out for this one) as 8th man/inside centre, have an extensive bouncing career in bars all over ontario, play high caliber paintball (am taking a couple years off) and lastly i worked on a construction site for 2 years.

[Spar-X]

Originally Posted by transit

Ummmmm......babies! Poached with Basel, wrapped in bacon. White wine.

WTF
Basel and bacon?
no, no,no

you want to add some garlic with butter while frying the bacon wrapped baby and slowly drizzling the wine on top to get the drippins......its all about the drippins

[specter]

I might be afraid what that baby is dripping

[Redneck in training]

Hi from Iowa. My name is Ladia and I just registered to WeldingWeb. I am nearing retirement and would like to build a home shop. I also own small hobby farm. Since welding is one of the most used process on the farm I would like to acquire some equipment. I already own a Hobart stick welder and would like to get MIG and plasma cutter. I am hoping to draw on the experience of the people frequenting this site and hopefully also contribute something I know.

[Redneck in training]

Originally Posted by dankadlec

Thanks specter!
The problem with ontario is that they are just starting the apprenticeship program, so its extremely weak right now with lots of flaws, etc. I am more than happy to work for a small shop to gain my experience and define my skills with hours and hours under the hood, it is just hard to get my foot in the door since im competing with seasoned welders.

Essentially I just gotta keep chasing for jobs until i can get my experience!

If your current job seeking strategy doesn't work try something different. Find a company that does the type of welding you would like to do and just get in for any job. You can also mention in your resume your athletic abilities. There are job that require stron guy.

[Matt_Maguire]

Hi Dan!

In college (3 decades ago), one of my instructors made the statement that "CEs' may not always make the good money, but they will always have work". Later I 'spit the bit' and went into machining and then welding. I do love it though, and since '73 have spent only two weeks wondering what I was going to do next.

I took the first part of his statement serious, and considered myself as a asset with a commodity price. Only a businessman getting ready to close down is going to pass up a machine, vehicle or any asset so cheap they could literally store it without pain.

Unless the task at hand is tamping sand, your asset value becomes known to the folks who "count the money" very quickly. And if your work habits, personality and dedication are good, those folks who actually "make the money" will like working with you as well.

BTW, entry level Civil Engineers in '74 usually started at 80-90% of factory labor wages after 4 years of college and worked well over 2080 hours per year. They don't stay there long though (sometimes just weeks), can't say that factory labor has done so well (really good wage package but what about tomorrow).

If you invest in yourself, in time it will work out.

Good Luck

Matt

[Aquafire]

Dan-
Please keep us posted on how the job search is going. There are always questions here from kids looking to make a career of welding and wanting to know how easy it is to find jobs and what the jobs pay. Info like yours will be very helpful to them.

[dankadlec]

well gents,
So far, I am just about two months out from my graduation from the private school. So far, I have not heard anything back from the 200ish resumes I have out there across canada. Between spending endless hours and mileage on my car, dropping off resume's and talking to every HR person I could manage to talk to in person, I still get the same reply....I am not experienced enough to be hired on.

Again, I find it very confusing why companies and private businesses refuse to help the next generation of welders gain experience for the future when the majority of experienced welders decide to retire. Economy? I suppose so! Right now I am seriously considering going deeper in debt with the bank and going after CWI's and so forth through the canadian welding bureau and TSSA...

Any additional advice to give me?

sincerely
the lost welder.

[PapaLion]

hmm, well IF the "human resources" person/personel doesn't seem to focus on you...UR an athlete? try beating the holy bejangles outa them and see if they remember to keep your application high on the pile and call ya' when there is an opening

Disclaimer: I am not myself today, DO NOT follow this advice of course, I am in a weird mood... sheesh, some folks ya' better mention that. Seriously, work on your own skills, to show your skills (volunteer), for ex: make something for the city, a bench, a trash manager etc. get a pic in the paper if ya' can.> and give it to the parks dept .. show U R an asset and somebody will take notice.

broiling babies? I always suggest a pomegranate glaze
enjoy,
.

[Old Fart]

Originally Posted by dankadlec

Again, I find it very confusing why companies and private businesses refuse to help the next generation of welders gain experience for the future when the majority of experienced welders decide to retire. Economy? I suppose so! Right now I am seriously considering going deeper in debt with the bank and going after CWI's and so forth through the canadian welding bureau and TSSA...

Any additional advice to give me?

sincerely
the lost welder.

Well I sure don't want to let the air out of your baloon, but it just may happen. You asked a couple questions so I'll take a stab.

"I find it very confusing why companies and private businesses refuse to help the next generation of welders gain experience for the future when the majority of experienced welders decide to retire. Economy?"
You arrived in the employment market at a crap point in time! I've seen it beore in the 50s and again in the 70s, and it will change in time. The problem is that doesn't help you one bit.
At this point in time, many if not most companies do not have the cash on hand to bring in and train that future generation, and some are a couple breaths from closing the door alltogether. Factor in delay of payment for jobs completed and a company can be in a real cash bind.
Sitting in the company seat I sure as hell wouldn't bring anyone in right now, regardless of having work for a few reasons. New employees cost a lot more per production unit than seasoned employees and frankly a kid fresh from school is the worst possible investment of my labor dollar. He has no work record. I also have to factor in additional insurance costs, potential unemployment cost, and project workload ut 6 to 9 months and hope none of the jobs booked don't arrive. My first duty is to the company and employees already working for me. I can probably talk an old hand into staying on a while or putting in some overtime, and I know he will make me money.

"Right now I am seriously considering going deeper in debt with the bank and going after CWI's and so forth through the canadian welding bureau and TSSA..."

If you said that to me as a potential employer I'd thank you and show you the door. From my side of the table it shows you have poor values and thinking skills. You're already in debt to your armpits and you want to get deeper. Don't know if you ever saw a craps table, but you're betting the worst line on that table, IF COME.

Lets look at a hypotheticle, 3 years out the economy is humming, I've got more work than I can see over the prints for, and I have been looking to hire an inspector for a month because my contract requires one. You walk in the door all shined up with your spiffy diploma looking for an inspector job. Nice to meet you son, drop by when you have some knowledge that didn't come from a book and a chucklehead instructor. You have nothing to offer a potential employer. You have been SUCKERED a second time by a former used car salesman calling himself an admission counselor.

Now I know you're young and went to school and I'm old and don't know a damn thing, after all your instructors told you that, so I suggest you head over to Google and check out the number of lawsuits filed against for profit schools like University of Phoenix on line for fraud and misrepresentation.

My suggestion would be to get yourself a job at McDonalds and build a reputation for working. Yes, I know the starting pay sucks and youre qualified to ~~~~, but its a damn fine place to learn what the world of work is all about, and you'll be surprized how the money increases over the first few months if you work and have a good attitude.

[JoshD]

I don't know if you have done this already, but you might consider seeing if any of the places you applied to have a position for a general laborer or a welder's helper. A local company here that works on powerplants hires laborers, its mostly just cleaning or janitorial type work, but $10/hr is a lot better than nothing and it might help you get your foot in the door with that company.

BTW- I'm in a similar position, graduated college not long ago, haven't been able to find a job in that field, so I'm going to welding school this fall. Hopefully it will turn into a career and its something I've always wanted to learn anyway. I just finished the base of the welding cart that I'm building for my new welder, and I'm really enjoying it so far! Good luck with your search.

[cby]

a good shot to take is head for an oil field / hire on as a weldor's helper/ ( not what you want, i know) and you will wind up welding all kinds of jobs, thus gaining experience as well as making important contacts.
just my .02
cby
if you're gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough