Tapered MIG tips???

[SuperArc]

Does anyone use the tapered MIG gun tips vs. the standard type? What's the purpose and is there really any STRONG benefits to using them?

Thanks in advance.

[SundownIII]

See gas mix thread.

[SuperArc]

Originally Posted by SundownIII

See gas mix thread.

Sundown, if you don't have something constructive to say, please go away. You're no help what so ever. You only attack, for whatever reason. Harrasment I guess.

[Ed.]

Originally Posted by SuperArc

Does anyone use the tapered MIG gun tips vs. the standard type? What's the purpose and is there really any STRONG benefits to using them?

Thanks in advance.

Hi, I have a Binzel type gun with tapered tips and a Tweco gun with straight tips and to be honest I have never noticed any difference, good or bad, using one or the other, I suppose the science behind it is that the taper tips would be more aerodynamic than a straight tube and therefore the shielding gas would flow out more uniformly without a vortex effect.

The tapered tip should technically probably dissipate heat better at the tip end than a thicker tube, (similar to a soldering iron) and less surfac area to absorb heat however over such a small area and distance I personally don't think it makes that much difference, at least not that I have noticed anyway!

I would have assumed the the MIG and torch manufacturers would have done a lot of test before deciding on a style and if there was a significant improvement they would have used that one, but from a manufacturing point of view it is much simpler to make a straight tube rather than a tapered tube. So if the results are marginal or only show a slight advantage on very scientific airflow and heat dissipation tests and then go with the simpler manufacturing process. Just my 2 cents worth and I could be wrong.

[Apples]

Tappered mig tips and nozzles are for getting into tighter places.

Better to have more material thickness in the tip than less.

[CEP]

Originally Posted by Apples

Tappered mig tips and nozzles are for getting into tighter places.

Better to have more material thickness in the tip than less.

Only time I have used them, to weld up / fill 7/8” holes drilled incorrectly in a 2” thick sole plate. A normal nozzle would not even fit in the hole.

[A_DAB_will_do]

I use tapered tips and nozzles for welding root pass on pipe. As someone else mentioned they make it easier to get into narrow groove openings and maintain the right stick out. For pipe with wall thickness over 3/4" they start becoming very handy. For really heavy wall pipe(>1"), that has a compound machined bevel, they are almost a necessity. see attached picture.

Originally Posted by SuperArc

Does anyone use the tapered MIG gun tips vs. the standard type? What's the purpose and is there really any STRONG benefits to using them?

Thanks in advance.

[Ed.]

Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do

I use tapered tips and nozzles for welding root pass on pipe. As someone else mentioned they make it easier to get into narrow groove openings and maintain the right stick out. For pipe with wall thickness over 3/4" they start becoming very handy. For really heavy wall pipe(>1"), that has a compound machined bevel, they are almost a necessity. see attached picture.

Hey A DAB, it looks like my understanding of tapered tips might be different to everyone else's, to satisfy my curiosity, just how wide are these "tapered nozzles and tips" ? I have 2 MIG guns (400A and a 350A) and both nozzles are about 20mm across at the tip and my smallest nozzle is on a very tiny North 180amp gun, and that nozzle is still 16mm across at the tip, so exactly how wide are these tapered nozzles that you guys are talking about that can fit inside a 14.2mm gap , as shown in your image and what amperage can they handle? Or am I missing something??? I have never done pipe work that thick, most of the 1" plate that I have welded has had a nice big "V" ground or cut out, so never had an issue of getting a weld to the bottom with the nozzles I use.

[Apples]

Photos of standard nozzles and tips VS tapered gear.

Tweco parts....

[Ed.]

Originally Posted by Apples

Photos of standard nozzles and tips VS tapered gear.

Tweco parts....

Thanks "Apples", Now I can see the difference, In all the years that I have been going to LWS's, I have never seen them before, possibly didn't noticed them because I hadn't been looking for them or maybe the LWS's I go to don't stock them, but now that I know about them, I will see if I can track some down, as there have been some tight spots that I could have used something like them.

When I first answered SuperArcs post I thought he was refering to the difference between something like a Tweco straight tip and a Binzel type tip which has a fatter end near the thread and tapers down to the tip. So "A Dab will do", now I know what you were referring to. My light bulb has switched on

Live and learn.

[A_DAB_will_do]

I use mostly Bernard guns and consumables.

Take a look at this page from the Bernard Website:

http://www.bernardwelds.com/products...ble_parts.html

I use 'T' series tips for fill and cap welding on pipe, or for general purpose fabrication. I use the 1/2"(~13mm) or 5/8" ID(~16mm) nozzles with this tips. Which nozzle I pick depends on my gut and what I'm trying to weld and how hot the welding is going to be. Not on any hard and fast rules.

I use 'TT' series tips and 3/8" ID(~10mm) tapered nozzles for root pass welding. I imagine these would also work better for welding inside corner fillets. But they tend to clog up with spatter faster, and they don't dissipate heat as fast....

On the joint I showed a picture of above, there's just enough room for a tiny weave motion with the tapered tip/nozzle and about 10mm of stickout. So long as spatter doesn't build up and short the tip to the nozzle, you can get down inside that joint and weld the root pass.

I've also seen nozzles with the sides cut away. These make the width of the nozzle about 8mm. But you can only use them in narrow grooves, as the walls of the groove serve to keep the shielding gas in place. Out in the open these cut away nozzles don't give adequate shielding gas coverage.

Not trying to sound like a sales pitch, but all these nozzle and tip combinations are possible with any of the Q guns that Bernard makes. It's a big reason why I like their products. Some folks have told me they have to clean spatter from the bernard nozzles more often, but I've never had a real issue with this...

Originally Posted by Ed.

Hey A DAB, it looks like my understanding of tapered tips might be different to everyone else's, to satisfy my curiosity, just how wide are these "tapered nozzles and tips" ? I have 2 MIG guns (400A and a 350A) and both nozzles are about 20mm across at the tip and my smallest nozzle is on a very tiny North 180amp gun, and that nozzle is still 16mm across at the tip, so exactly how wide are these tapered nozzles that you guys are talking about that can fit inside a 14.2mm gap , as shown in your image and what amperage can they handle? Or am I missing something??? I have never done pipe work that thick, most of the 1" plate that I have welded has had a nice big "V" ground or cut out, so never had an issue of getting a weld to the bottom with the nozzles I use.

[Apples]

Ed what type of gun do you have? Bernard 300 Amp? do you use the 4391 nozzles? if so the 4392's are the tapered ones. The diagram that was posted is for the "centerfire" range of bernard and nozzles and tips. You may not have these on your machine, maybe?

[Dualie]

I had the tregaskis from Radnor, PA swallowed up my LWS and every LWS for 50 miles consumables for the tregaskis stuff became Unobtainium. guns like the Bernard like A-Dab was talking about. Unfortunately When the green giant

[Ed.]

Originally Posted by Apples

Ed what type of gun do you have? Bernard 300 Amp? do you use the 4391 nozzles? if so the 4392's are the tapered ones. The diagram that was posted is for the "centerfire" range of bernard and nozzles and tips. You may not have these on your machine, maybe?

Hi "Apples", I have a Tweco #4 400 amp and a Binzel type 350 amp in the large guns, the tiny North gun is really small compare to the other two but that is still 16mm at the tip. the Tweco nozzle is like the larger nozzle that you had in the picture and the Binzel one is straighter but both of them are still 20mm at the tip end. I definitely don't have anything like the other ones that were in your picture. But as I said before, now I know they exist I will track some down regardless, and thinking back, there heaps of times I could have used a much smaller nozzle. But since I didn't know about them I just had to do the best with what I had.

I think Miller distributor in Oz has the centerfire range of accessories so I will give them a call on Monday.

[Ed.]

[QUOTE=A_DAB_will_do;397678]I use mostly Bernard guns and consumables.

Take a look at this page from the Bernard Website:

http://www.bernardwelds.com/products...ble_parts.html

I use 'TT' series tips and 3/8" ID(~10mm) tapered nozzles for root pass welding. I imagine these would also work better for welding inside corner fillets. But they tend to clog up with spatter faster, and they don't dissipate heat as fast....

On the joint I showed a picture of above, there's just enough room for a tiny weave motion with the tapered tip/nozzle and about 10mm of stickout. So long as spatter doesn't build up and short the tip to the nozzle, you can get down inside that joint and weld the root pass.

QUOTE]

Hi "A Dab will do". These are the sort that I will try and get, especially for doing the inside corner weld on a sharply angled RHS section, most of the runs are less than 2-4 inches, so splatter won't be too much of an issue, I can always clean the tips after each section. How many amps and volts can these 3/8" mig tips and nozzles handle?

Much easier to clean out a nozzle than to fix up a crappy weld inside a tight corner because I couldn't get my 20mm nozzle in there and had to have to have a very long stickout.

[Apples]

Those other taperd tips and nozzles were for a Tweco no.4 gun. I had a person who was in the same situation, needed to get into a tight space.

[A_DAB_will_do]

Originally Posted by Ed.

How many amps and volts can these 3/8" mig tips and nozzles handle?

Those tapered tips and nozzles are fine for short circuit MIG, 0.045" dia and smaller filler metal. I use them with 0.035" solid wire and 0.045" solid wire and metal cored wire all the time. I only use them for the root pass on open root joints. For this purpose they work just fine. I don't know how well they'd work for fillets or fill and cap passes, where a lot more of any spatter is bouncing back at the gun nozzle...

I do not recommend using them with any kind of spray arc or globular transfer. You'd have to contact someone at Bernard customer service to get specifics about how much amperage/heat they can handle.

[Ed.]

Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do

Those tapered tips and nozzles are fine for short circuit MIG, 0.045" dia and smaller filler metal. I use them with 0.035" solid wire and 0.045" solid wire and metal cored wire all the time. I only use them for the root pass on open root joints. For this purpose they work just fine. I don't know how well they'd work for fillets or fill and cap passes, where a lot more of any spatter is bouncing back at the gun nozzle...

I do not recommend using them with any kind of spray arc or globular transfer. You'd have to contact someone at Bernard customer service to get specifics about how much amperage/heat they can handle.

Hi, no problem, the RHS that I weld is usually no more than 2mm to 4mm thick so a single pass using .035 or .045 should do the trick. If your using 0.045 through them then they should be able to handle at least 200A-250A which is more than adequate especially for short runs. Thanks again.

[Ed.]

Originally Posted by Apples

Those other taperd tips and nozzles were for a Tweco no.4 gun. I had a person who was in the same situation, needed to get into a tight space.

Thanks "Apples" Then they should fit straight on to mine as that is also what I have.

[OPUS FERRO]

SuperArc - Yes, for discrete applications only; and no. Opus

[SuperArc]

Thanks Apples, Ed. Opus, Dab-will-do and others......... Now I know. I need to get some! I could have used them myself on some pipe.