MIG vs Flux Core

[Burbman]

Well, toniight is the last welding class, and I was hoping to have my new welder by now. I have all but decided to get a shiny new Millermatic 211 with spool gun and cart, especially now that Miller is running a $100 rebate through the end of September. But things being what they are, every time I think I have the $1 large I need to make this purchase, something else pops up. At this rate, I may not get this thing until next year.

I'm cooking up a Plan B, which is Hobart handler 125, $369 at Cyberweld.com. This is a basic 115v wire welder that uses flux-core wire. I'm thinking I could use this to get some small projects done while I build my welding skills, and work my way up to the 211.

I've been using the Miller MIG at school, but never with flux-cored wire. My question is what kind of results do you get with flux-cored wire? Do you get a lot of spatter and a sloppy weld? Or does it look as good as a weld with solid wire and shielding gas?

I know that the 125 won't replace the 211, but I was thinking of using it as an affordable stepping stone until I can afford to step up to a 211 with gas, spoolgun, etc. Is this practical or am I just tossing my money away?

[Broccoli1]

Spatter-yes
Sloppy weld- up to you

Go with the Handler 125EZ

http://www.toolking.com/hobart-50052...welder-a-stock


EZ reviews

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...=handler+125ez

[Burbman]

Ed, thanks for the link, I've always been a big fan of reconditioned tools.

What I'm trying to understand is how much spatter? As much as the 6010 rod we used for stick welding?

[Broccoli1]

Search more over on Hobart- I know a few members have posted up Pics.

[Burbman]

Welding instructor talked me out of the fluxcore...I'm looking at the Hobart 140 refurb at toolking.

[DesertRider33]

I would look for a used Millermatic 175 or 180 or Hobart Handler 187 or Lincoln Powermig 180 (as well as other flavors of the small Lincoln 220v mig). You can do both mig and fluxcore with these machines and they have the power to weld much thicker metal than the little 115v models. You will need 220v power to run them. I see these small 220v migs for sale on Craig's List regularly in the $500-$600 range, occasionally less, usually with other accessories as well.

Good fluxcore self shield wire makes about as much spatter as using solid wire with CO2 gas, depending on the machine and settings and operator. Fluxcore makes just as nice welds as the mig process, depending on operator skill and machine settings and quality of wire. Stay away from the Airgas Radnor brand fluxcore wire or other cheap off-brand wires and you will be fine.

I prefer McKay Speedshield GS or Hobart Fabshield 23, which are both E71T-GS general purpose self shielding wires, available in .030 and .035 sizes for the smaller machines. This wire runs excellent and makes very pretty welds in both my Passport and Millermatic 175.

Hobart Fabshield 21B is an excellent fluxcore wire in the E71T-11 class. Lincoln NR211MP is another good T-11 wire. Both of these wires run very well in both of my small migs and in the Suitcase feeder powered by the XMT.

Here is an example of what a fluxcore self shield weld looks like in the field. This was a horse corral repair on thin galvanized tube I did with the Passport and .035 E71T-GS, McKay Speedshield GS. These were chipped and then brushed with a wire wheel, but no grinding before or after. Open end of tube was ground smooth after pic was taken.



Here are some 6" c-channel frames I welded with .045 E71T-11, either Lincoln NR211MP or Hobart Fabshield 21B, I forget which, with the XMT and Suitcase feeder, vertical-up position for the webs, flat and overhead for the legs. These were chipped and brushed by hand, no grinding. Second pic shows one weld (smoke and slag) before any post-weld clean-up.

[Burbman]

Thanks for the pics, that's some nice looking work! Right now the Hobart Handler 140 is looking like the front runner. I really wanted the 211 but it's just not in the budget with 2 kids in college. As a home handyman/hobbyist, I think the 115v MIG will do 99% of what I want to do with a welder. It will be good practice for me working on light projects. The other issue I have is no 220 power source in the garage. I could install one, but we are looking to move next year and don't have the need to do a lot of HD welding before that. (I have 200A service in the house for the a/c and pool filter, but stove and dryer are gas.)

Interesting that you're seeing a lot of MIGs on CL out your way...I've been watching CL here in the NY area for the past 4 months and am only seeing welder/generators or 3-phase industrial stuff, along with the occasional buzz box.

I'm thinking once I move and get the new shop set up, I'll invest in a nice 220V multiprocess unit, and I'll still have the handly lil' Hobart for the smaller jobs. I'll need 220 in the shop anyway for the large air compressor I'll be getting ....

[MoonRise]

Burb,

120V wire feed welders have their uses and purposes, but IMHO they top out at about 1/8 inch material. Maybe 1/4 inch with double bevel and two sided welding and multi-pass and fluxcore. Skilled users can maybe stretch that a wee bit higher, but not by much. That is a combination of raw power and duty-cycle. GMAW on that class of machine usually tops out about 14-16 gauge steel, depending a bit on wire diameter being used and shielding gas (CO2 vs C25). FCAW gets you a bit thicker capability (the FCAW wire runs 'hotter').

The 240/220V (same thing) machines give you more capability for not all that much more money. You can turn the slightly bigger machine down, but you can't turn the smaller machine up any more than its max.

FCAW-only machines limit you to, well, FCAW only. FCAW has its uses and purposes, but it also has its trade-offs and weaknesses. Thin sheet metal with FCAW is usually futile or difficult at best. Automotive sheetmetal or any welds where painted appearance is important is usually NOT where you want to use FCAW. Those are more where GMAW and its cleaner and smoother beads are 'better'.

Your money and your call, but the 240V machine is where you want to be anyway, so buying the 'temp' machine means you end up buying two machines.

ps. I started with a 120V wire feed welder, FCAW + GMAW. Didn't think I 'needed' any more power than that. I was wrong. Ended up buying the 240V 175A-class welder maybe a year or so later. I can (and do) turn the bigger machine down, but I couldn't turn the smaller machine up any more than max. I did find myself squeezing the trigger and handle harder several times on the small machine in a futile effort to get just a little more oomph. That didn't work.

[jdh239]

I started off with a 110 v machine too, and had to run flux through it all the time to get any penetration. I finally dumped it for a 220 v machine (MM 251). I am just a hobby welder, but HOLY COW, I don't regret it at all. Difference in power between 110v machine and 220 isn't even funny.

I know I get the needed penetration now to make a sound weld. The only downfall to my newer welder is that I can't just take it anywhere (ie, to my brother's house with 110 v, or the backyard). The 211 would be a good machine for both.

If it were me, and I were in your place, I would go with a 211 or better--but it just all depends upon your needs.

[Jack Olsen]

I started off with a HH140 and really liked it. I still haven't hit a job that it couldn't handle, although I've since gotten a MM211, just in case.

Look for bargains. I paid $320 for the HH140; sold it for $300. I put that toward the $750 I paid for the 211.

On the 211, you don't have to get a spool gun right away -- unless you do a lot of aluminum. But then, if you do a lot of aluminum, a MIG welder might not be the best way for you to go.

[Rbeckett]

I did the same thing as you propose with a century 135 from sears, and while I did find myself giving the gun a death grip it eventaully got it done. If you have no immediate need, save your cash, and keep an eye on CL you will do OK. Or you can have more welders, I like more welders myself, but that is out of the question for me anymore. Either way when you get the 220V welder you will wonder how you ever did with out it, it is that much different. Good luck!!!
Bob

[CWI_98]

Burpman-
I would agree with Desertrider 33 The welding process is only as good as the operator. The mig is good to you now because you've burned more then a couple of spools during school, get the right set up for FCAW and practice and you just might find that FCAW is the cat's meow. Remember though alot of the choice comes from what material thickness you will be using.