Drill bit set - buy once - which brand?

[weld]

I am looking to buy a 29 piece set of good drill bits (1/16" to 1/2"). I prefer the tri-flat shanks. I see Huot is USA made, but is the cobalt set any good? They seem to be inexpensive. I have searched and read the HSS vs coated vs cobalt threads. I know I want cobalt. I just don't know what brand is the best deal. Is the $75 set as good as the Irwin $140 set for doing mostly mild steel and stainless steel every once in a while?

I was wondering what you guys thought about the following sets:

29 pc M42 SOLID COBALT DRILL BIT SET 135° Tip NEW USA (tri-flat shanks)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/29-pc...motiveQ5fTools
$75

29 Piece Cobalt M-45 Metal Index Drill Bit Set (Part Number: HAN3018002B)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/29-Pi...motiveQ5fTools
$138

Irwin Hanson 3018002 29 Pc Cobalt Drill Bit Set M35
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Irwin...motiveQ5fTools
$85

[joedirt1966]

For what it's worth, I have a couple of sets of 29 piece ti nitride coated drill bits from harbor freight. When needed, I sharpen them in a Drill Doctor.

I have also purchased ti nitride coated bits (smaller sizes) in the 10 pack in case I break one. Always comes in handy!

The 29 piece set is currently on sale for 19.99 but can be had for 16.00 with a 20% coupon. IMO they are well worth $16.00. Take the rest of what you were going to spend and get a Drill Doctor (or similar).

Replacing a broken cobalt drill bit is "spendy"!

P.S. I've never owned a set of cobalt drill bits. I've heard they "hold an edge" well, but I've never been able to make the commitment to spend $75.00 - $140.00 for drill bits.

[mot krig]

My only problem with the above statement is that the HF ones dull so fast you end up sharpening as much as drilling. It does suck to buy expensive ones, but if you dont break them they will last for a much longer time. Personally, I'd go for the $75 one.

[weld]

Thank you for the replies. For years I used a friend's drill set and they work great. I am going to look at the brand this evening. He has a drill sharpener that I use on them sometimes. It is not a drill Dr. It is an older sharpener and does a good job.

Recently I bought a 115 pc set from HF for $30 when I ordered some other tools. I tried one bit out last night on some 3/16" mild steel making a new frame for a another tool. After drilling 8 holes the outer edges were chipped. It happened on the fourth hole and I could tell by the slight squeal it started to make.

I think the HF is a decent set for around the house stuff, but I need a set where I can drill longer between sharpening when I am building stuff in the garage. My gut instinct is to go with the Cobalt USA made set for $75. I like the tri-cut shank when using with my hand held drill. I am also getting a drill sharpener no matter which drill set I get.

[weld]

I think I have it narrowed down to what I will need. I figure I might as well get a spare sharpening wheel. Is the standard wheel the one that can be used on cobalt bits or is there a better one?
After checking what type of bits I have been happily using for years I will decide if I need the cobalt or not. I saw one bit shatter before so I have a feeling they are some sort of cobalt.

Yeah, the better Irwin set is about $30 more. I look at it this way.........a weeks worth of eating peanut butter & jelly for lunch is all that it will cost and save me in sharpening time. Irwin says the more expensive set is 8% cobalt and the other is 5%.

M-45 cobalt 29 piece set ($108)
Irwin / Hanson / Vise Grip (HAN3018002B)
Item Number: HAN3018002B

Drill Doctor (DD 750X) ($133)
Item Number: DD 750X

Standard Diamond Sharpening Wheel ($21)
Drill Doctor (DD DA31320GF)
Item Number: DD DA31320GF

[Matt_Maguire]

M-42 is a standard AISI tool steel, I think the M-45 notation is somebody puffing smoke...

If you are buying a drill doctor just get the cheap black oxide drills, if you want better you can find Black&Decker bright drill indexes for $30-35 at the big box stores (these are M2 HSS made by Cleveland drill USA). Or just get the real thing with Cleveland stamped on the bit for triple the money.

Matt

[weld]

I agree about the M-45 description being incorrect.

I would like to get a 29 piece set. What do you think about this set? It is not the bright set though. Would it be made by Cleveland also?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...ProductID=6060

29-Piece General Purpose Drill Bit Set
Model # 15575

[GabZip]

Buy cheap and buy more of them. Drills are an expendable idem.

[jsfab]

I just buy good quality HSS bits, drill thru anything I ever need to, including hard metals and SS. Just watch the speed, use plenty of coolant, and sharpen as needed. Occasionally, I get a Titanium bit from the hardware store, a certain specific size for tapping threads maybe, but my understanding is the first time you sharpen them, you take whatever titanium there is off the cutting edges, it's not special steel or anything.

I don't have a special drill-sharpener, either, I just do them free-hand on a bench grinder.

Good quality bits would include Viking and Hanson, a couple other names I don't recall right off the top of my head. One brand in particular to stay away from, is Vermont American.

[weld]

The sharpener I always used was made by Black&Decker and it worked great.
This is what it looks like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=263602_263622

In terms of 29 pc sets. The Black&Decker set is about $35 shipped and the Irwin cobalt 8% is about $105 shipped.

[joedirt1966]

Originally Posted by jsfab

I just buy good quality HSS bits, drill thru anything I ever need to, including hard metals and SS. Just watch the speed, use plenty of coolant, and sharpen as needed. Occasionally, I get a Titanium bit from the hardware store, a certain specific size for tapping threads maybe, but my understanding is the first time you sharpen them, you take whatever titanium there is off the cutting edges, it's not special steel or anything/

It is true that sharpening a ti nitride bit takes off the coating. The remaining exposed steel is high M2 high speed steel (according to the specifications).

Sharpening a black oxide coated high speed drill bit also results in removal of the outer finish exposing the same M2 high speed steel as on ti nitride coated bits.

Ti Nitride coating is more durable than black oxide. Drilling through thick metal will eventually chew them both up.

On the contrary, Cobalt drill bits do not require the ti nitride or black oxide coating and thus no coating is removed after sharpening. After sharpening, you have a new sharp cobalt bit as it was before you ever used it (albeit very slightly shorter).

[jncaruso]

Not really sure if this fits what you are looking for, but if anyone is really looking for a set of bits that are really tough and will last a long time, get a set off cryo bits from Parts Master. I was retrofitting a stainless steel conveyor once that required drilling a lot of 1/8" holes. We were breaking regular and cobalt bits faster than we could buy them. Bought a few Cyro bits and were able to drill all day long with the same bit without breaking or resharpening it.

[stamp]

can someone please tell me what a drill sharpener is? i thought the only way to sharpen a bit was with a bench grinder and a good eye

[Oldiron2]

Posted by joedirt1966
It is true that sharpening a ti nitride bit takes off the coating. The remaining exposed steel is high M2 high speed steel (according to the specifications).

Sharpening a black oxide coated high speed drill bit also results in removal of the outer finish exposing the same M2 high speed steel as on ti nitride coated bits.

Ti Nitride coating is more durable than black oxide. Drilling through thick metal will eventually chew them both up.

On the contrary, Cobalt drill bits do not require the ti nitride or black oxide coating and thus no coating is removed after sharpening. After sharpening, you have a new sharp cobalt bit as it was before you ever used it (albeit very slightly shorter).

As I understand it, a black oxide coating helps hold a thin film of lubricant better than a shiny finish. The other coatings, TiN and such, are much harder and more heat resistant than the base metal so help hold the edge longer and allow higher speeds. Higher speeds, with the resulting higher temperatures in the shear zone, actually can allow lower forces since the base metal is weakened by the higher temperatures.
Rigidity and controlled feeds are necessary to get the greatest gains by using the highest quality cutting tools with their higher speeds; generally it doesn't happen much with just a hand drill, although there are exceptions.
Although the coatings are removed from the point when sharpening, they still remain on the flute edges so tend to maintain the drill diameter better.



.

[jones6780]

Black oxide is a corrosion preventitive and will aid with lubrication. Ti nitride is for higher temp and wear resistance and is best suited for CNC production. Choice of drill bits will depend on how much drilling and what kind of material you are drilling. If you drill mild steel and aluminum the HSS is just fine. If you plan on drilling harder materials then you need a better quality drill. As an earlier post mentioned there are different percentages of cobalt and those differences can make a big difference in cutting and wear resistance.

Russell

[weld]

I looked at the drill I have been using forever. One set is a 29 pc. Hanson HSS set. The other is a 29 pc. PAI Industries (made in USA) set with tri-cut shanks. Both work great and I have been happy with them.
Based on this I am going to give the Black&Decker HSS set a try first and get the Drill Dr.

I tried sharpening both a Hanson bit and Harbor Freight bit. The Hanson bit was much harder than the HF bit. I could sharpen the HF bit much faster without bogging the sharpening wheel down.

Thank you all for the help.

[SmokinPRanch]

Whatever they're made of I like the bits with the split point that don't walk all over when you start the hole. Don't have to center punch before drilling. And for things that do need better location accuracy, need a center drill in a drill press or mill anyway.

Al

[7A749]

Originally Posted by GabZip

Buy cheap and buy more of them. Drills are an expendable idem.

Sure.....Until one busts off or dulls instantly, work hardening the inside of a blind hole of a one off project you're building or repairing & there's no way of getting it out without a lot of effort or a tap burner.

Sure, it could happen with any drill, but the chances of it happening with a quality drill such as a Cleveland or Morse is a LOT less.

To me, cheap drills are a lot like cheap abrasives. The cheaper ones cost less up front, but the performance & longevity of the better quality is far superior in so many aspects. Some of the import drills now (especially in larger diameter S&D shanks) are pretty good for the money, but good 'ol standbys like Cle-Line are just hard to beat.

IMHO of course

[weld]

Originally Posted by 7A749

Sure.....Until one busts off or dulls instantly, work hardening the inside of a blind hole of a one off project you're building or repairing & there's no way of getting it out without a lot of effort or a tap burner.

That is exactly why I didn't want to use the HF bits on projects I have a lot of work into. If I am drilling & tapping my 8th hole in a 1/2" thick flange I cut out with the plasma and carbide formed some ports the last thing I want is a hole I can't drill & tap or broken bit.
The HF bits have done a great job around the house and were priced accordingly. I am happy with them in that regard.

I ordered the Black&Decker HSS 29pc (P/N 15575) set and a 750X sharpener. It was mentioned that the B&D set is made by Cleveland, but I can't find any web info to back it up. It will be interesting to try out this sharpener because I have used the Black&Decker sharpener forever. If the B&D 15575 bits don't work out then I will try the Irwin/Hanson 8% Cobalts for $105. I have never used cobalts and do a lot of hand drilling so I am not sure how easily they break. I have only broken about 2 HSS bits in the past 5 years.

I am fine without the split points. I tend to center punch and drill 1/8" pilot holes in every thing. I am not a high production rate shop so the extra time for me doesn't matter. It is more about accuracy for my projects.

[7A749]

Originally Posted by weld

That is exactly why I didn't want to use the HF bits on projects I have a lot of work into. If I am drilling & tapping my 8th hole in a 1/2" thick flange I cut out with the plasma and carbide formed some ports the last thing I want is a hole I can't drill & tap or broken bit.
The HF bits have done a great job around the house and were priced accordingly. I am happy with them in that regard.

I ordered the Black&Decker HSS 29pc (P/N 15575) set and a 750X sharpener. It was mentioned that the B&D set is made by Cleveland, but I can't find any web info to back it up. It will be interesting to try out this sharpener because I have used the Black&Decker sharpener forever. If the B&D 15575 bits don't work out then I will try the Irwin/Hanson 8% Cobalts for $105. I have never used cobalts and do a lot of hand drilling so I am not sure how easily they break. I have only broken about 2 HSS bits in the past 5 years.

I am fine without the split points. I tend to center punch and drill 1/8" pilot holes in every thing. I am not a high production rate shop so the extra time for me doesn't matter. It is more about accuracy for my projects.

You did well with your purchase by the sounds of it. I have some B&D bits I have had for years & they do a good job. I've used Cle-Line (Cleveland) & Morse for years & like them prolly the best. I get them from a local industrial tool supply here. They aren't even cheap, but haven't let me down yet.

Cobalt is great in some regards, being it has a little more resilience to wear on harder steels & ones that tend to work harden quickly. I have purchased them for jobs where I want the best possible results & only have one shot to get it right. It's worth a few extra bucks for something like that. Sometimes, the cost doesn't justify the means tho.

I am very glad you realize the risks in using cheap drills. A lot of guys think just because it's HSS that it's OK. I bought one cheapie set of drills from HF some years ago just to give them a try. Ended up burning up the first one I used in mild steel rather quickly.

They are still sitting in the index they came in & I keep them around for drilling thru wood or crap stuff I don't want to wreck a good drill on.

I will say that if you end up purchasing some reduced shank drills (Silver & Demming) in larger diameters, the import brands you can get at the industrial tool supplies aren't bad & if you were to buy Cleveland S&D's, the price is quite staggering for larger sizes.

You bust off a cheap drill in something you only have ONE shot to get it right on & watch a ton of work go down the tubes to save a few bucks, you generally only make that mistake once. Cheapies can also wear out super quick & work harden a hole you need to tap. That sucks bigtime & in some cases, put a workpiece you worked long & hard on right in the scrap bin.

Good luck with your projects

[weld]

Originally Posted by 7A749

Cobalt is great in some regards, being it has a little more resilience to wear on harder steels & ones that tend to work harden quickly. I have purchased them for jobs where I want the best possible results & only have one shot to get it right. It's worth a few extra bucks for something like that. Sometimes, the cost doesn't justify the means tho.

Good luck with your projects

Every once in a while I get some scrap metal cut off of paving equipment. It is work hardened due to being heated and cooled many times through out the day. I use the stuff for building carts, wood splitter add-ons, and other non-precise stuff. I tried drilling in just once. It just dulled a bit instantly. From there on out I make all the holes in it with the plasma cutter. It will destroy the cutter tips but they are only like $0.20 for the china torch. If I really have to I then clean up the hole with a carbide burr, but that is pretty rare.

The new sharpener will be fun to experiment with to see if it out sharpens the Black & Decker sharpener. I am guessing it will since the B&D requires more user input to set up and operate.

[7A749]

Originally Posted by weld

Every once in a while I get some scrap metal cut off of paving equipment. It is work hardened due to being heated and cooled many times through out the day. I use the stuff for building carts, wood splitter add-ons, and other non-precise stuff. I tried drilling in just once. It just dulled a bit instantly. From there on out I make all the holes in it with the plasma cutter. It will destroy the cutter tips but they are only like $0.20 for the china torch. If I really have to I then clean up the hole with a carbide burr, but that is pretty rare.

The new sharpener will be fun to experiment with to see if it out sharpens the Black & Decker sharpener. I am guessing it will since the B&D requires more user input to set up and operate.

Some of that scrap steel can be quite challenging to identify. Not to mention cut thru.

You got the best idea torching it with the plasma.

If the hole is nominal size & the bolt head covers it, I'll torch it almost every time rather than mess with drilling. Especially if it's by hand.

Post it up when you get the sharpener going. I have done the smaller bits by eye on my belt grinder & it does OK for me. We have a really good tool grinding shop locally that grinds my larger diameter drills. Pretty fair for face & flutes on end mills too. I just save up a tote full & send them in when I got the money for it.

Again, hope your purchase works out well

I bet it does.

[Matt_Maguire]

Originally Posted by weld

I agree about the M-45 description being incorrect.

I would like to get a 29 piece set. What do you think about this set? It is not the bright set though. Would it be made by Cleveland also?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...ProductID=6060

29-Piece General Purpose Drill Bit Set
Model # 15575

It's pretty similar (same window box). About being made by Cleveland, it's possible. Some years back I mentioned to my tool guy that I had bought a B&D set for home that looked every bit as good as my shop drills for 1/3 the price. He commented that they were Cleveland and then said "if you buy 50,000 at a time you'd get a better price too". Smart A$$..

Matt

[Matt_Maguire]

Originally Posted by weld

Every once in a while I get some scrap metal cut off of paving equipment. It is work hardened due to being heated and cooled many times through out the day. I use the stuff for building carts, wood splitter add-ons, and other non-precise stuff. I tried drilling in just once. It just dulled a bit instantly. From there on out I make all the holes in it with the plasma cutter. It will destroy the cutter tips but they are only like $0.20 for the china torch. If I really have to I then clean up the hole with a carbide burr, but that is pretty rare.

The new sharpener will be fun to experiment with to see if it out sharpens the Black & Decker sharpener. I am guessing it will since the B&D requires more user input to set up and operate.

I posted before reading all the comments.

It's also a good possibility the scraps you had were T-1 or even worse, AR. T-1 is tough AR is just a pain in the...

I think you'll be happy with them.

7A749, I'm sure with ya in the cheap tool stuck in the expensive part. I use a number of drills and coatings but the old M2 HSS by a good maker just seems tougher, I can't ever remember having one shatter. I used to have a souvenier of a small one that bound up and removed the twist near the shank for about 1/2" or so.

Matt

[weld]

Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire

It's pretty similar (same window box). About being made by Cleveland, it's possible. Some years back I mentioned to my tool guy that I had bought a B&D set for home that looked every bit as good as my shop drills for 1/3 the price. He commented that they were Cleveland and then said "if you buy 50,000 at a time you'd get a better price too". Smart A$$..
Matt

You guys do this work a lot more than I do and really seem to know your stuff. I figure for the money for the B&D set I can't lose. With the HF set I would be sharpening after every hole and possibly destroying a project I have way too much time into. I appreciate the help.