DC- Aluminum welding

[thermalfusioneng.]

What limitations are there with this type of welding? Elaborate extensively

[weldinglifer]

Your question is too broad. are you asking about using DC electrode negative for tig welding aluminum?

[thermalfusioneng.]

Correct

[bassboy1]

I hear it is real good for welding up tin foil hats....

[jsfab]

Originally Posted by thermalfusioneng.

Elaborate extensively

Sounds kind of demanding,,,,,, kinda like the response you are looking for is "YES, SIR, I hear and I will obey, Sir!!!!"

Assuming you can loose the attitude, I suggest you mosey on over to the Hobart Board, do a little searching first, there's been quite a few discussions about DC tig aluminum there already. Also probably here, and on the Miller board also. Did you even try the search function yet??? Anywhere??? Of course, using different key-words?

On the Hobart board, anyway, I believe B_C and Pangea have experience. Both are very nice guys, and very helpful, but ASK them, don't TELL them.

[ZTFab]

Originally Posted by jsfab

Sounds kind of demanding,,,,,, kinda like the response you are looking for is "YES, SIR, I hear and I will obey, Sir!!!!"

Assuming you can loose the attitude, I suggest you mosey on over to the Hobart Board, do a little searching first, there's been quite a few discussions about DC tig aluminum there already. Also probably here, and on the Miller board also. Did you even try the search function yet??? Anywhere??? Of course, using different key-words?

On the Hobart board, anyway, I believe B_C and Pangea have experience. Both are very nice guys, and very helpful, but ASK them, don't TELL them.

He's looking for justification to responses he got in this thread:

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=43263

[thermalfusioneng.]

Hmm, I've been welding dc aluminum for years. Was hoping to get a more intelligible response than, I feel your picking on me! That's not my Intentions. A lot of welders have many misconceptions about this type of welding. My intention is to Hear what your thoughts are on this process. If I sounded to demanding my apologies, I should of said ( Please elaborate extensively) .
My bad.
Thanks

[jsfab]

Yes, ZT, thanks for the heads-up.

Originally Posted by thermalfusioneng.

Hmm, I've been welding dc aluminum for years. Was hoping to get a more intelligible response than, I feel your picking on me! That's not my Intentions. A lot of welders have many misconceptions about this type of welding. My intention is to Hear what your thoughts are on this process. If I sounded to demanding my apologies, I should of said ( Please elaborate extensively) .
My bad.
Thanks

The correct way to do this, thermalfusioneng, is to post up examples of your work, with pictures if possible, explaining how and why you do things in a certain way, this would be very educational. Not to bait others into posting first, so you can then pick them apart, and thus prove your superiority.

Oh, yeah, when explaining, please elaborate extensively.

[sn0border88]

Originally Posted by thermalfusioneng.

What limitations are there with this type of welding? Elaborate extensively

Your the one who wants to be the expert, why dont you prove to us that you actually have an idea of what you are talking about first.

[Showdog75]

Ok I'll shoot. I do alot of marina repair work on the side that consist of alot of aluminum. I'd love for someone to show me how to weld the damaged pontoon railing I just finished with DC-- . I ain't gonna happen. My little dynasty at 45 lbs. along with a small 40 cf. argon bottle is very handy at welding anything I must go to. I'll take my ac/dc tig , in fact I'd be hard pressed to make it without one. I've made by far more money welding aluminum portable because there just isn't to many folks around here doing it. Another thing of all that aluminum work I have done none was thick enough for DC-- . It does have it's place but not for the majority of folks wanting to weld aluminum. Jmo.

[SundownIII]

sn0,

Been through a few of his posts and "he's not".

Thermal,

Not going to go thru the whole speal but here's a few disadvantages to using DC-.

Helium (generally a pure grade) is required. Costs considerably more than Argon, plus due to the specific gravity (lighter than air) requires increased flow rates. Most estimate that using Helium as a covering gas results in increasing your gas cost by a factor of 7. In other words, your covering gas will cost 7 times as much.

Arc is harder to start in Helium than it is in Argon. Particularly true for the inexperienced welder.

Base metal preparation is much more critical than AC welding since you do not have the benefit of the DC+ cycle.

Much more difficult process to "master" than AC tig.

Pangea (Hobart Board) is a big advocate for DC welding of aluminum. He also works for NASA, who doesn't have the same financial constraints as most small welding operations.

With the development/refinement of the inverter based machines Dynasty 350/700 in the Miller lineup and similar machines from Lincoln you have the "best of both worlds". The balance range of the machines allows an experienced welder to obtain a near DC- arc (penetration) with just enough DC+ (cleaning) to achieve optimal results.

I do blend a mixture of Argon/Helium for thicker aluminum but I haven't welded in straight DC for many years. (yea, I know how. Learned to tig on an old Linde (Heli-Arc) welder back in the 60's)

Now why don't YOU tell us why you think DC- welding is SO GREAT.

[thermalfusioneng.]

After reading most of your posts, The majority regurgitated half of someone else's opinion from some other website. Not good.
I was hoping for some better input.
Thanks for your input Showdog. I admire your candor.
Thanks Sundown for the probable scenarios. In one of your other post you mentioned limitations, are these the limitations you where referring to? Are there others?
I 'm no expert, but I still like to learn new things from credible people.
Knowledge is power, few individuals get zapped by the sun, or get stuck in the desert.
If you aren't sure about how to reply please don't, that's what gives welders a bum rap considering 4043 is not your house address.

[SundownIII]

Sorry Thermal,

There's only room for one (and I'm not sure about that one) William McCormick on this board.

If you want recognition here, you're going to have to learn to speak English, not riddles in some foreign tongue.

We're waiting for your response (English please) as to the benefits of DC welding aluminum. Up to this point what you've said is hogwash.

[thermalfusioneng.]

If you had to get someone else to ask permission or if you need to get past the word regurgitate it ok I understand you have a (special situation). Yeah everyone here is just laughing about the niobium deal.
good luck.

[SundownIII]

Follow these instructions carefully please.

Put the pipe down, and step away from the computer.


Oh, and BTW, I'm not your freaking Amigo.

[thermalfusioneng.]

Oh come on chief , you think just because you can hurl some insults at someone that your not free game. Tuck your teeth in its not corn season.
Oh BTW Ditto

[Boostinjdm]

Originally Posted by thermalfusioneng.

Hmm, I've been welding dc aluminum for years.
A lot of welders have many misconceptions about this type of welding. My intention is to Hear what your thoughts are on this process. If I sounded to demanding my apologies, I should of said ( Please elaborate extensively) .
My bad.
Thanks

Show us some good pics if you've been doing it for years...

Straighten us out if you are so experienced....

If you have been doing it for so long, you should be well aware of the pros and cons of the process.

Here, I'll even contribute my thoughts to get you started.....
From what I have read here and elsewhere, DC Tig has it's place for aluminum. Sounds like mostly thick clean stuff that has to be Tigged. I have never done it myself. I have never seen it done, and to be honest, I'm not all that interested in using that process.
Every piece of aluminum I have ever welded was done with AC Tig or a spoolgun. If/when those two types of welding don't fit the bill, then I will consider a new one. I don't see it happening though.
You coming on here and acting like an expert and then fishing for info seems.....well, kinda fishy.
IMO crackpot Billie, and now you, coming on a site like this and telling newbies that DC- works good for aluminum is just setting them up for failure. Although it may be true, it's not giving them the whole story.

[Spar-X]

Bummer,
I was hoping for something useful, 2 min. I cant get back.

[yorkiepap]

Hey thermalfusioneng,
Your query is a bit confusing as to your goal. I believe SundownIII gave you the appropriate response as far as the process & factors that provide data that SMAW aluminum is not a sound process. Like some of the other " 'ol timers" here, we experienced the early days of aluminum welding & the associated "headaches"(porosity, slag inclusion, etc.) inherent with SMAW aluminum. The advent of MIG & TIG eliminated viturally all issues if the correct parameters are employed. Even back in my days ('50's), the best results were with O/A rather than SMAW.

There is a vast amount of data available online if you do some simple searches. Here's a good start if you have not researched alum. SMAW: http://www.brazing.com/techguide/pro.../allumimum.asp

I agree that your success would be interesting with photos provided & an in-depth explanation of your procedures..... "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"......

Denny

[7A749]

Originally Posted by yorkiepap

Hey thermalfusioneng,
Your query is a bit confusing as to your goal. I believe SundownIII gave you the appropriate response as far as the process & factors that provide data that SMAW aluminum is not a sound process. Like some of the other " 'ol timers" here, we experienced the early days of aluminum welding & the associated "headaches"(porosity, slag inclusion, etc.) inherent with SMAW aluminum. The advent of MIG & TIG eliminated viturally all issues if the correct parameters are employed. Even back in my days ('50's), the best results were with O/A rather than SMAW.

There is a vast amount of data available online if you do some simple searches. Here's a good start if you have not researched alum. SMAW: http://www.brazing.com/techguide/pro.../allumimum.asp

I agree that your success would be interesting with photos provided & an in-depth explanation of your procedures..... "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"......

Denny

Hey, Denny. I believe they were discussing DC TIG on AL.

Yeah, back on that topic...Again.

I'm staying waay outta this one......

[yorkiepap]

Hey Steve,
Ok....my bad...

Denny

[7A749]

Originally Posted by yorkiepap

Hey Steve,
Ok....my bad...

Denny

Either way, it's already bad & getting worse.

Prolly get killed here soon when Rojo gets 'round to it.

[thermalfusioneng.]

Ok we are gonna do it the way you guys like it. You know after posting on another thread I remember someone saying something to this tune.
You can't weld aluminum dc- for thin aluminum. My response to that was .100 or better meaning unlimited.
I was so wrong ! My Apologies I can really accept when I'm wrong.
Looking around in the shop for a stack of aluminum plates, I found them. I went to the center of the stack pulled a couple, (these were cleaner) wiped it with MEK.
Gave it a light brush before I welded. Got the old dusty Powcon smt 400 out (a boys toy )
and set the welder to 125 amps got some crummy helium not the good stuff. The powcon is set to a scratch start tig. Used a 3/32 tungsten 2% thoriated gas set at 35. Took me what was a whole 17 sec. to weld this tee fillet. Just to find out that I was ultimately wrong.
What I thought was .125 material turned out to be .090 Ha ha ha. After being in court all day
and coming back just to go play catch up in the shop. I was tired, I had to put a belt around my wrist just to get the hand steady. End of the day, just laid on one more weld. Just so I can show half you pretenders, It can be done! I wanted to go out and buy a new BB with video just so I can play a video of this process. I don't care how long anybody been welding but when you limit yourselves by closing the mind, its the end for you. Sorry to say half of you dont't now what your talking about when it come to gtaw.
Its mostly bad info, but its fun here in my office to listen to those elect few go on and on and on and on.
A few need to proof your posts.

P.s.there was no burn thru. Good luck I'm Done. you try it and let me know how you did.
If I offended anybody my apologies. Good Luck

[thermalfusioneng.]

I cut the end off to show complete weld with no burn thru.

[Spar-X]

Originally Posted by Spar-X

Bummer,
I was hoping for something useful, 2 min. I cant get back.

O.K., I was WRONG!
but
Next you will be crucified (upside down) for trick photography, or falsifying your information or something.........which reminds me,
Hey did you know that the Moon landing was a sham! it was done in a Hollywood basement........ah, so I hear.