Neighborhood courtesy when welding?

[Monica]

We live on a culdesac at the end of the road. Our house is set up at the top of a small incline and the driveway and garage is in plain view all the way to the block intersection ~110-120m away and even on up the next block. I plan to do my welding there at the front of the garage/driveway. I thought I'd park my truck down the drive to keep it away from sparks. Am I responsible for putting up screens or something to block the view of the arc?

I know my neighbor on the next street over welds in front of his garage and he lives at the corner of the main road. I've heard and seen him out there when I pass by. We aren't dictated by an HOA or anything and we know nearly everybody on the street. I guess I hate being the center of the 'what is she doing?' attention I also don't want kids sitting up at their house staring at the light?

Back home where houses weren't so close together, outside city limits where driveways were long it didn't matter too much. Just pull out your work and get to it. But here, I don't know.

Am I overthinking? Thanks


Monica <-- misplaced hispanic redneck

[Supe]

Never hurts to throw a couple welding curtains around you. Helps to cut down on the wind, too.

[A_DAB_will_do]

Hi Monica,

It's nice to hear of someone who's concerned about their neighbors these days. I work out of my garage on my own projects sometimes, and I am in a development with neighbors very close by.

Are you responsible for putting up safety barriers? A good question for an attorney. Morally, I feel that if you think there's a reasonable chance of your neighbors walking up while you're working, then I'd say yes. For myself, I bought some panels of PVC welding curtain, 4'x6' and I hang them up from hooks above the garage door, if I think lots of people will be out and about. If I'm welding on a nice weekend day, then I try to make sure I cover part of the doorway with weld curtain. If nothing else it makes neighbors think twice about just walking in. During the week, when no one is home, or if the weather sucks, I don't worry about it so much. The panels aren't expensive, maybe $10 a piece. They'll also keeep grinding sparks off the cars in the driveway, and bits of metal thrown by grinding in a smaller, easier to cleanup space. If you do any oxy-acetylene cutting, then they'll also help keep the molten slag from going places you'd rather it didn't.

Actually, I have more concerns with noise than I do with welding arc light. Grinding, cutting, hammering, all make a deafening racket in a residential neighborhood. So I tend to use a bandsaw instead of a chopsaw. and I try to keep the grinding to a minimum. I also try to keep reasonable hours 9am-dusk. If I have to do something outside those hours then the garage door stays shut(which can be a real nuisance.)

So far I haven't had a problem with my neighbors. But I also fix lawn ornaments and the occasional piece of patio furniture or lawnmower for free. I call it keeping up good relations...

Originally Posted by Monica

We live on a culdesac at the end of the road. Our house is set up at the top of a small incline and the driveway and garage is in plain view all the way to the block intersection ~110-120m away and even on up the next block. I plan to do my welding there at the front of the garage/driveway. I thought I'd park my truck down the drive to keep it away from sparks. Am I responsible for putting up screens or something to block the view of the arc?

I know my neighbor on the next street over welds in front of his garage and he lives at the corner of the main road. I've heard and seen him out there when I pass by. We aren't dictated by an HOA or anything and we know nearly everybody on the street. I guess I hate being the center of the 'what is she doing?' attention I also don't want kids sitting up at their house staring at the light?

Back home where houses weren't so close together, outside city limits where driveways were long it didn't matter too much. Just pull out your work and get to it. But here, I don't know.

Am I overthinking? Thanks


Monica <-- misplaced hispanic redneck

[Rick V]

Hi Monica and all,

"he lives at the corner of the main road" - that's my situation, plus the intersection changed from stop signs to trafffic lights as the subdivision built ever larger. I imagine that several thousand cars flow through that interstion per day - and it's only about 75 feet from my garage.

So, I weld inside the garage (never outside), and I put my body between the intersection and what I am welding. My concern is distracting drivers, by a flickering arc or the flaming spark trails while grinding. I could be perhaps held responsible for a traffic accident - and I don't want that.

Last summer, I was in the garage, door open, on my knees, hammering on an 8 foot long, 3 x 3 inch welded tube and I looked up to see a lady standing in front of me. She said, "Would you mind stopping hammering, my daughter is trying to sleep." Oops! She lived half a block away. Well the hammering was real loud (I was wearing ear protectors) and it was rather later (11 PM - time flies when you are having fun!)

Yes, I do try to be more concious and courteous to the locals and passerbys now.
I don't start any welding until 7AM and no hammering until 9 AM - unless I hear a lawnmower running!

[Monica]

Yeah I'm definitely aware neighbors notice. I think everyone is nosy to some degree, especially if you're friends..."What is she up to over there??" lol

I think yall have convinced me some curtains would be a good investment. Not only will they block the light and the wind, but the sun too. My garage faces west and boy is it HOT in the afternoon.

Rick I got a chuckle about the hammering. I had a similar revelation a few days ago. I have some workout equipment in the garage and I frequently turn up my garage radio and crank the fan on high when I'm in there. Well, that particular day I finished up a hot & heavy workout then I ran the sprinklers so I could check the spray direction which means I have to go traipsing through the cool droplets to get to the sprinkler head with my screwdriver (the tool, not the beverage). While I was out my neighbor a couple houses down hollered at me to check out her new sprinkler (the yard hose her contractors busted) so I went over. While I was out there chatting I could hear all this racket - it was my racket! The radio doesn't sound that loud when I'm in there


The noise levels start early here since many folks have a yard service. It isn't unheard of to hear mowers cranking up at 730am. Where I'm from 10am was the norm. My husband and I have since adjusted. Like you, if we hear machines, game on, people are awake!

Overall, we try to be considerate. We've had some bad neighbors before and we didn't like it. We know folks have things to do and sometimes there's going to be things going on. But nothing going to excess. Word goes around if there are big projects and everybody tries.

[ggarner]

I weld in the garage and on the driveway all the time. I live on a dead end street, so we dont get much traffic (15 houses and maybe 35 cars) and we also have a gate so there is no chance of anyone walking up. If you are really concerned about people watching the arc then I guess you should put up a welding curtain. Personally I would not. I remember when I was little and passed by someone welding with my mother and asked her what that was and i got the standard "he is welding dear, DONT look at the light it will make you go blind". Pretty sure everyone knows that, especially since you are from Texas.

If you are worried about being a considerate neighbor, then I would be more concerned with using the angle grinder. They make a hell of a lot of noise and are much more annoying to neighbors than a pretty blue light and the sound of bacon on the stove. Try not to grind early AM or late PM and I think you will be fine. Nothing more annoying than trying to relax on a Sat evening than having someone work on their project at like 8 and all you can hear during the quiet parts of the movie is some white trash guy revving the engine on his pos '86 plymouth duster, because he thinks the new chrome exhaust tip he put on gave him another 10hp.

[raferguson]

I think that noise is a bigger concern from neighbors than welding arc, especially early or late. I had a neighbor complain politely when I started making noise at 7 AM on a weekend, he was probably being reasonable, I agreed.

That said, when I am doing more than a few seconds of welding I will put up something.

I made a folding screen out of sheet metal that fits on my portable welding table, maybe 18 inches high, mostly use it for stick welding in the driveway. Most of my welding is TIG, so I do it inside the garage with the garage door pulled down enough to block the view.

My spouse is particularly unhappy about seeing the welding arc, and of course she would typically be closer to the arc than passerby.

Richard

[Pontiac Freak]

Common courtesy goes along way with neighborhood relations! Most of the time when you show it nobody will complain.

[knucklepanshovel]

where I used to live, there were 5 motorheads all clustered together on a busy residential street, we kept compressors running all the time, welded whenever we wanted. but the rest of the neighborhood was very well less than amused.

I remember on a Sunday afternoon a house was forsale across from us, & agent was showing it to a prospective buyer. I was busy cutting exhaust with an airchisel, 1 was painting his car in front yard, another was playing with a sport bike, while another was busy with impact wrenches doing something. the agent & prospective buyer was too busy looking around to even notice the house..

when some of the other neighbors fussed about something I would light my rosebud tip in middle of night & heat up some steel & precede to stuff tip into the metal to give a very nice loud "POP" repeadily......

a few actually tried to call police about a rust bucket I was driving, to them it was an eyesore, but it was tagged & inspected, & I told police to tell them if they didnt have enough business to mind I would give them alot more to mind.

I believe I have the right to do anything at my house thats legal. & I do not believe in neighbor hood association rules. total b.s. & where I used to live, & where I live now we do anything we please, anytime day or night.

1 company tried to start a neighborhood with the stupid rules, as of last time I went by only 1 place was sold & built on & lots have been for sale for 8 or so years, & priced realistically.. about $6,000 an acre. guess the owner can sit back & retire after breaking it up into lots, building a road system, & selling 1 lot. lol!! I live in rural area, but I wouldnt hesitate to move back to town & do anything I want again. most of the neighbors that tried to cause trouble moved there after me, so I was there first, & I gave them hell, & I still own my city place, & I pop in when ever I feel like it. I just prefer the peacefulness of country. where my newspaper comes out once a week. & to keep up with whats happening you have to listen to the radio.


Randy

[Monica]

I dream of the day I can live outside city limits again. Its where I grew up and where I want to be but in this journey through life, this is where we're at now. I just don't want to make enemies and live being all cooped up if I can help by making a few compromises that are no skin off my back. We spent our Navy years overseas, in rental houses and apts so where we're at now is a ton more freedom than what we've had in a while. I can put nail holes in the walls! Believe me I'm taking advantage of it! Even though it's still less freedom than what I was use to growing up in the country, I don't want to be a jerk. Believe me, I've got my tendencies (hence the "hispanic redneck" note in my OP that my husband calls me)

We can be noisy with our motorcycles...scratch that, I know we're noisy. I think DHs bike is too loud, much louder than mine so we're considerate on how we leave our house.


I appreciate the responses everyone. You're giving me things to think about.

[wielro]

I was taught that you are responsible for the weld and the arc. I even put a tarp on my fence so the little tike next door doesn't stare thru and then they claim he needs glasses. I don't even let my dog hang around.The noise of grinding and hammer blows well I shut it down before dinner.

[Rbeckett]

I live at the end of a 1 mile long dead end road and my neighbor across the street does mud truck racing, I fabricate, the other neighbor restores old cars. If you came by on a saturday night you would never know. During the day we sound like a large factory, but about dusk the din goes away and the grill comes out. If one of us has an emergency then it gets done, but that doesnt happen too often, and we are usually helping em fix the problem anyway. A little consideration goes a long way to good neighborhood relations. A shared beer, or an offer of help usually gets the point across if its too late to be beating and banging. I have beat out a race car body from the friday night races and made the saturday races, but it is the rare occasion that we do that. An arc screen is always a good idea, because kids just dont understand not looking at the pretty blue light, but thats about it.
Bob

[oxy moron]

sometimes i close the garage door half way... sometimes means 1% of the time.
I usually do my welding at night, between 7pm and 1am. There are some people out for their evening strolls around 7 so that's when i do my cutting/noise making. I strike arc (tig) as late as possible.

I figure, since i'm usually facing into the garage (my back is facing the street) I'm covering the arc with my body anyway. All they can see from the street is brighter lights flickering off and on, but can't see the actual arc.

oh yeah, I live in a very relaxed HOA. I run my 60 gallon air compressor well into the night (1am/2am) sometimes. no one ever had a problem with it.

[sn0border88]

I'm sure someone will correct me on this if I am wrong, but I was told 30' away from the arc is considered safe from arc flash. Nothing wrong with putting curtains up either if you feel the need to, but I wouldn't lose any sleep working without them as long as people aren't on your property looking at the arc.

[zapster]

I start work @ 5 AM...
There are condo's all around the shop BUT we were there 50 years ago and the condo's were not..
They are basically "Right On Top Of The Shop"

"Grandfather" clause goes into effect in this situation..

As long as the shop stays in the "Family" nobody can say squat.
I can make whatever noise..welding...whatever...whenever I chose..
Nobody says anything.
It gets them NO WHERE.

I still hear the alarm clock go off in the second story condo behind where I am @ 6AM every morning when things are "Quiet"...

I get there and start the compressor but leave the doors shut..

When it shuts off the doors are open and that's that.

I try to keep the noise quiet until 7 but if noise needs to happen then it does.
Abrasive wheel chop saws..
Hi pitched squealing from lathes...
Floor shaking drilling chatter..
Don't matter.
It is what it is.

The neighbors don't seem to care.
We do little fix it things for them for free so I guess there is a trade off of some sort going on..

We may not be the "Best" neighbors but we are the "Nicest" neighbors at the same time.

...zap!

[dubl_t]

Good thread, got me thinking too.
Like most of you, I still believe a person should be responsible for their own actions; meaning if you stare at the flash, you're to blame. But in this suit happy genre, curtains and maybe even a sign might not be a bad idea.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hardass and am overly considerate (nowdays and when I don't loose track of time) of my neighbors, usually starting after 10am and ending at 9pm. It's just that it seems that this "big brother" thing and lawsuits are running rampant and getting worse.
Besides, a curtain or two would make a great windscreen

[Oldiron2]

Originally Posted by dubl_t

.
Good thread, got me thinking too.
.... It's just that it seems that this "big brother" thing and lawsuits are running rampant and getting worse.
......

Just remember that the next time you are called for jury duty, and also remember you actually have the right to judge both the facts and the law ; despite what the judge says, he is not the last word on the subject and his 'opinion' is not binding on jurors, if common sense and justice says otherwise.

I once had neighbors whose kids yelled all day long and whose dogs barked at any hour of the day or night, but I couldn't keep a rooster because he crowed (only briefly ) at sunrise!
If I had been in charge and pushed the issue, I might at least gotten the city to at least 'mitigate' those other noises too, since they were all unreasonably loud and obnoxious.
Have rarely had a problem with welding, partly 'cause I rarely need to do it when anyone could object.

[DSW]

Originally Posted by Oldiron2

I once had neighbors whose kids yelled all day long and whose dogs barked at any hour of the day or night, but I couldn't keep a rooster because he crowed (only briefly ) at sunrise!
If I had been in charge and pushed the issue, I might at least gotten the city to at least 'mitigate' those other noises too, since they were all unreasonably loud and obnoxious.

For what it's worth, noise ordnances are extremely hard to enforce. I learned this from a sound engineer when locals tried to shut down our range due to the noise. Most ordinances have a decibel reading that isn't supposed to be exceeded past a give distance from the property line. IE you can make all the noise you want, but it can't exceed say 95dB measured 30' past the property line. There's a couple big kickers to this.

#1 the sound has to be actually measured to be admissible in court. Not just it "sounded loud".
#2 The readings have to be taken by a person trained properly in the the use of the equipment. IE Johny Law can't just grab a meter and take a reading unless he's been properly trained in it's use.
#3 The meter has to have been independently calibrated, tested at a lab and documented within so many days, just like the radar guns and so on have to be periodically. No current test and documentation and all the rest is worthless.
#4 All sorts of things will violate most noise ordinances, motorcycles, lawn mowers, leaf blowers, any other small gas powered equipment, many cars, yelling at the curb... The law has to be enforced universally. They can't ding you for grinding lets say and not slap the same thing on the guy weedwacking his yard.
#5 Also often the noise has to be sustained for a give length of time, say 5 minutes or more. That lets out things like barking dogs usually as they seldom go nonstop. Once they stop the clock starts over.

All this from someone who regularly testifies in court to help defeat noise ordinances. He says almost 95% of the time he wins because the laws are unenforceable as written. Usually it takes a person running a major factory nonstop to loose against a very well written law. They may get you for some other thing like being a nuisance, but not for making noise.

[farmersamm]

Hey ROFL

Ya got very little to worry about. Even the tightest azzed Baptists tolerate lottsa noise when it's "work" noise.

You can grind until the cows come home, and ya won't hear a peep But turn the stereo up when you're having a back yard party..............................and ya got the law on yer azz

[Maddirtbkr]

I wouldn't loose sleep over the welding curtain stuff. Distance greatly decreases the intensity of the light. From 2-3 doors down I don't think the light would be hazardous. I weld in my driveway 40 ft, from a well traveled street. Motorists only see the light for 1-2 seconds if they are driving and looking at me? Actually have people stop to weld stuff up because they see me.

Good luck.

[minner]

Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do

Hi Monica,

So far I haven't had a problem with my neighbors. But I also fix lawn ornaments and the occasional piece of patio furniture or lawnmower for free. I call it keeping up good relations...

+1 You'd be surprised at the BS some folks come up since "they know a welder". LOL

I have privacy fence down one side and my driveway "welding area" is sheltered on the otherside by my house. Now the front drive I do just as you said; I back my truck down the driveway a ways to help block off my welding from others.

[Crawford]

hell, i've been driving by the site of a new hospital and almost got in a wreck cause i was watching them weld on the i-beams ;-D but i was probably a good 800 yards away and got distracted by the arc flash when i first saw it.

i would figure if there were laws or problems with arc flash and roadways near by they would have put up a screen (assumptions can and usually are wrong though).

[papaof2]

I'm fortunate to have a drive that curves behind the house to the "boat door" (garage door for access to the daylight section of the basement).

The house itself provides shielding on one side, there's a retaining wall 4 feet high 90 degrees ccw from the house, my body provides the block at 90 degrees ccw from the retaining wall, and the neighbor's 6' foot wood fence (around the swimming pool) provides shielding in the other quadrant..

Unless someone walks down the neighbor's driveway to the back of my house, my welding area is well blocked visually (and from the wind).

I wasn't interested in welding when we bought the house, but it has worked out well ;-)

John

[OPUS FERRO]

Monica - Thanx for bringing residential welding decorum to the
front. I work out of a grand-fathered light industrial shop in a
residential neighborhood; I can generally do what I wish with
impunity, but I schedule my big work when no one's at
home. My tech-school maintained a 40 ft. naked eye viewing
distance for day light welding arcs; this distance also protects
a viewer from allied hazards: grinding, weld splatter . . .. Day
light and dark, neighbors most often find welding curious and
inviting. The real consideration, or problem, is noise: grinding,
air compressor, hammering . . .. So control your noise, keep
random wonderers at a distance, and enjoy your passion. OPUS

[tresi]

If they are close enough to be harmed by the arc they're probably standing on your property. I'd would be more worried about someone getting close enough to get grinding sparks in their eye. A pit bull on a 50 ft leash should keep them back.