3 axis welding clamp

[pyroracing85]

http://store.cyberweld.com/stha3axweclw.html

Has anybody bought this and used this? I need to weld a very precise table together with 3" square tubing.

Will this work?

[9er]

I have one. It works to the point where you can temp up the 3 parts.
However, they are not as true as I would like to see. Especially for the price.
There are some adjustments but it's nearly impossible to get all 3 axis just right.

It's great to get your tacks on but then it's out of the jig and back to the trusty square.

[norite]

Never used one, or seen one. I took a look at the URL and it looks like it could do the job.

I'd need to weld a lot of such joints to justify the $300 cost, I'd probably fab something up in the shop Three pieces of angle iron, carefully welded to form a perfect jig would work just as well AFAIK.

For a single table I'd just do as I always do, line up with a magnet and/or a square, tack weld and keep checking alignment and tacking until ready to weld.

[pyroracing85]

Originally Posted by 9er

I have one. It works to the point where you can temp up the 3 parts.
However, they are not as true as I would like to see. Especially for the price.
There are some adjustments but it's nearly impossible to get all 3 axis just right.

It's great to get your tacks on but then it's out of the jig and back to the trusty square.

Just curious what are the adjustments? It seems like it is a solid jaw mount up and no adjustment by the look of the pictures on the main website.

http://www.stronghandtools.com/products/vises.html

[9er]

There are bolts that attach the base to the vertical section (the upright corner). I've loosened them up, got everything happy, then re-torque. Of course you can't adjust the milled portions.

It's good for what it is. But my particular unit is not "precision".

Don't know where you are. My shop is in Laguna Hills, Ca. If you're near here, come get it and try it out.

[Broccoli1]

I tried one that a friend had- didn't like it



faster to just square things up

[zapster]

If you know how to cut tubing SQUARE then you don't need any of that...

...zap!

[joedirt1966]

Looks like it would get the way of a mig gun or tig torch.

It's an expensive and unnecessary gadget.

[greenbuggy]

Paid less than what they get for that to buy myself a cold saw.

Suddenly cutting angles properly and more importantly, repeatably got a lot easier.

[pyroracing85]

Wow, a lot of people here saying they don't like it. I am suprised. I can understand the price but if it worked why not. I always have problems with the squaring up a 4' leg of something and tacking it in place only to find out it moves. fustrating.

So for the people that bought one and don't like it want to sell it to me for a good used price?

[DSW]

Originally Posted by pyroracing85

I can understand the price but if it worked why not. I always have problems with the squaring up a 4' leg of something and tacking it in place only to find out it moves. fustrating.

The issue is it doesn't work. I tried a buddies and wasn't impressed. I know with the standard corner clamps if you clamp and weld it still pulls out of square. They are fine to give you an extra set of hands to hold and fit or to tack, but you still have to tweek and check square. As soon as you run a full bead, the metal contracts as it cools and when you release the clamp it goes where it wants (usually out of square ). Being fully welded at that point, it's not easy to readjust.

[DesertRider33]

I have a 2-axis version of that I bought at Harbor Freight many years ago. Only used it a handful of times. It's not perfectly accurate and I find it's easier/faster to just use a speed square and regular clamps to the table.

[pyroracing85]

Originally Posted by DesertRider33

I have a 2-axis version of that I bought at Harbor Freight many years ago. Only used it a handful of times. It's not perfectly accurate and I find it's easier/faster to just use a speed square and regular clamps to the table.

Would you mind showing pictures (if you have any) of what you are doing here?

I was planning on cutting them with my cut off wheel and then getting the lengths and everything square on my bridgeport then using this as a holder.

If you guys have something better please show me. I don't really know all the welding tools available.

[sn0border88]

Sounds like you just need to learn how to use a square. No matter what kind on clamp setup you have, or how square the ends are I bet that after you put one or two tacks on there your going to need to adjust it. And then your still going to need to fix it after its welded.

Those clamps might save some setup time but I wouldnt even think to use them for something that I wanted perfectly square.

Ive made plently of square tube frames with nothing but a framing square, a few clamps and a sturdy piece of angle iron.

[pyroracing85]

Originally Posted by sn0border88

Sounds like you just need to learn how to use a square. No matter what kind on clamp setup you have, or how square the ends are I bet that after you put one or two tacks on there your going to need to adjust it. And then your still going to need to fix it after its welded.

Those clamps might save some setup time but I wouldnt even think to use them for something that I wanted perfectly square.

Ive made plently of square tube frames with nothing but a framing square, a few clamps and a sturdy piece of angle iron.

angle iron or angle plate?

This is what I think of when it comes to angle plate http://cgi.ebay.com/GOOD-CHALLENGE-P...item35ac9eb747

More for machining.

I am a machinist by trade so probably coming up with to precise of methods to doing this.

[joedirt1966]

Originally Posted by sn0border88

Sounds like you just need to learn how to use a square. No matter what kind on clamp setup you have, or how square the ends are I bet that after you put one or two tacks on there your going to need to adjust it. And then your still going to need to fix it after its welded.

Those clamps might save some setup time but I wouldnt even think to use them for something that I wanted perfectly square.

Ive made plently of square tube frames with nothing but a framing square, a few clamps and a sturdy piece of angle iron.

I agree.

You can pull or push things back to square after tacking by several methods. A couple of ways to bring things back to square would be by using turnbuckles, come alongs, and homemade spreaders. Like on Star Wars......Sometimes you just have to use the force.

Those clamps (or any other clamp) won't hold the tolerances that you may be used to with machining.

[DesertRider33]

Originally Posted by pyroracing85

Would you mind showing pictures (if you have any) of what you are doing here?

I was planning on cutting them with my cut off wheel and then getting the lengths and everything square on my bridgeport then using this as a holder.

If you guys have something better please show me. I don't really know all the welding tools available.

Sure. Square it up with a square and clamp it down to the table with clamps, tack, then weld. For these, I made a jig with scrap wood and metal pieces, since I had a few triangles to make for this project. Once the triangles were built, I squared them on the beam table, clamped, tacked and welded.

[norite]

One tip for doing this is when you make your first tack, lift the steel at the tacking point so that there is a tiny gap just before you tack it. If the steel is tacked while in contact with the other piece, the weld shrinkage of the tack will pull it down tight and it will be a fight to get it lined up with the square. By leaving a little gap you can move the leg in any direction it needs to go easily and the small gap will allow better penetration for the weld also. I usually start at a corner, then the opposite corner diagonally, then either of the other corners

If all else fails, get out the BFH:

[pyroracing85]

Originally Posted by norite

One tip for doing this is when you make your first tack, lift the steel at the tacking point so that there is a tiny gap just before you tack it. If the steel is tacked while in contact with the other piece, the weld shrinkage of the tack will pull it down tight and it will be a fight to get it lined up with the square. By leaving a little gap you can move the leg in any direction it needs to go easily and the small gap will allow better penetration for the weld also. I usually start at a corner, then the opposite corner diagonally, then either of the other corners

If all else fails, get out the BFH:

So you are saying when I clamp them (using the table like you guys are saying) DON'T press the tubing right up next to each other but rather leave a gap and it would help with warping and penetration?

How big of a gap? 1/16 or 1/8? or in between?


I appreciate all this knowledge guys.

[brslk]

Originally Posted by pyroracing85

So you are saying when I clamp them (using the table like you guys are saying) DON'T press the tubing right up next to each other but rather leave a gap and it would help with warping and penetration?

How big of a gap? 1/16 or 1/8? or in between?


I appreciate all this knowledge guys.

I'm sure someone a lot smarter than I will answer you soon but 1/8 seems rather large of a gap.

When I tack things I generally leave about the thickness of cereal box cardboard. (yes, I know... highly technical.)

If you cut and line things up properly in the first place then you shouldn't need such a huge gap.

[pyroracing85]

Originally Posted by brslk

I'm sure someone a lot smarter than I will answer you soon but 1/8 seems rather large of a gap.

When I tack things I generally leave about the thickness of cereal box cardboard. (yes, I know... highly technical.)

If you cut and line things up properly in the first place then you shouldn't need such a huge gap.

Thanks, I am definitely going to have to try all these tips next time.

[norite]

You just need a tiny gap, a business card, cereal box etc, no more than a 1/16" at most, like brslk said.

The only reason for a larger gap is to aid penetration on thick steel when you don't want to bother to bevel the legs.

Sometimes you will have to break/cut your second or third tack if it pulls down too much or too little. You need to anticipate how much it will pull so when it cools it is where your want to be. It gets a little easier with practice.

[sn0border88]

Originally Posted by pyroracing85

angle iron or angle plate?

This is what I think of when it comes to angle plate http://cgi.ebay.com/GOOD-CHALLENGE-P...item35ac9eb747

More for machining.

I am a machinist by trade so probably coming up with to precise of methods to doing this.

You are correct, angle plate is more for machining which is why i specifically said angle iron. I have a few pieces of 3x3x1/4" aluminum angle, 8-12" long. I clamp these across the parallel surfaces to hold the pieces which I square them up. Then you also know that the surfaces of the angle are perfectly true with each other.