Sparking Tig Welds

[Mocamber]

Hello All, Ive done a few searches on the site but just cant find the answer to my problem so hopefully I can get your help.

First off - I am a beginner welding, so feel free to correct any of my assumptions or processes.

Setup:
Tig welder DC neg set at 55 amps
Foot control
4130 Chromoly 1" x .035 round
ER70S-6 Filler
Red tungsten
Cleaned Inside & out with silicon wheel then acetone.

Problem: The welds begin to spark and make a mess. I often end up with lines in the beads of the weld. I make sure the filler stays within the gas to avoid oxidation but oxidation Im guessing is my problem? Different filler as in ER70s-2?? Any tips would be helpful.

[Mocamber]

I changed tungsten to a brand new stick before these photos and a clean unused filler rod as well.

[Taiden]

are you tack welding with another process first?

I am always tempted to grab my 6013 rod for tacking because I love it so much.

The first tig project I did, tacking with 6013... I'll never do it again. Porosity all where my tacks were. I figured out how to go over them without problems, I just lower the heat at the tack and the tacks bubble out if I hang around long enough. It works, but next time I will definitely be tacking with the TIG

[dave powelson]

1- some pics of your 'SPARKING' welds would be in order--to show
the rest of us idiots what a 'SPARKING' weld is.

2-since you're starting out and since you haven't gotten or studied any really basic
material--like the $25 package on Miller's site--do your self and others a big favor
by investing in your education.

3-The instant gratification mania of today's world--really doesn't apply to
tiggin' or any form of welding--it takes study, patience, practice and effort on your part.

4-okay--now there's pics.

5-Care to clarify what you refer to as sparking?

6-If you're starting out--just begin with welding on flat, mild steel pieces in the flat.

[welderShane]

You might be running to hott. Having a gap that big on tubing that thin can be a problem, espicially while your just learning. Is the tubing clean on the inside too?

[Mocamber]

While welding it looks like a "sparkler" except far further toned down. I'm not sure what the best way to describe it but hot "slag" is coming off the part.

I classify myself as a beginner welder, I started over a year ago welding a few hours per week but I'm certaintly not a certified welder nor as good as the people on this site. The gap looks bigger than what it really is. The pedal control is never flat out its just where I set the welder.

What is a good way to clean the inside of the tube?

Same method for tacking.

Here is what I have noticed. When starting the bead on another section of the node it starts off ok, no sparking everything seems to be fine, but when joining the current bead to an existing bead, it begins to "spark". Possibly not ending the weld correctly? I make the sure the gas postflow stays at the final resting place and is set at about 6 seconds or so.

[Taiden]

I'm a beginner welder just like you, and I have found that the only times I get sparking is if my metal is contaminated or if I'm going over a stick tack weld.

Does it spark if you are just laying beads on flat sheet/plate?

[Mocamber]

Unfortunetly we don't have any flat sheet or plate of chromoly around. The problem isnt an sure fire thing as it doesnt happen everytime, which to me screams the metal is not clean enough. But with the problem mostly occuring when I join an existing weld I begin to wonder. If you look at the first picture the tack went alright (no sparking), after cleaning the part for final weld I started my bead on the existing weld and immediately it began sparking.

I will post more pictures tomorrow of different welds.

[Taiden]

what did you use to clean it?

[wintermute]

You'll also get sparks coming off of your TIG weld and porosity if your gas is turned up too high. Try running a bead at 10CFM above the proper setting and you'll get sparks shooting off and the bead will bubble, oxidize and fill with porosity. What CFM were you running your gas at?

--Wintermute

[ariznitro]

try purging your shielding gas into the tubing to act as a backing gas , thats how weld all my 4130 chassis's works great
just be sure the area your welding is the lowest point and start the purging a few seconds before you start to weld ,, you can get a purge manifold at any welding supplier ,,

[SundownIII]

Taiden,

Generally, when you don't have a clue what you're talking about, it's best to STFU.

You sure post a lot for a new welder who doesn't know jack.

Remember, "Tis often better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

[welderShane]

Did you just get your gas? Maybe you got a bad bottle of gas?

[dbotos]

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...me-Moly-Tubing

[pulser]

The tack weld you show in the first pic has been brushed so we cannot see how badly it was oxidized to begin with. That tack weld could be oxidized enough on the root side to cause the subsequent weld to be instantly contaminated. For material 0.035" thick, you can have a tight fitting butt joint with no gap, and this could greatly help in making a small, precise, clean weld. The tack weld looks poorly fused and wet to the base metal, I wonder if you are doing something weird with excessive arc length, excessive torch angle, and/or melting the filler with the arc and dripping it onto the joint? The arc should be as tight as possible (approx 1/16"), the torch approx 20 degree push, and the filler added to and melted by the puddle not the arc.

Sparking is due to contaminated shielding, as in lack of adequate shielding, or a leak in the system which is pulling in atmosphere, or contaminated base metal, as in not clean or previously oxidized. Clean base metal, filler metal, and inert shielding will yield a clean weld pool without sparking. In rare cases of steel from unknown sources, the steel itself may contain excess oxides/sulfides etc. which can react poorly when welded.

The second pic with the sparking weld, shows excessive discoloration and excessive width of discoloration, which indicates a combination of inadequate inert shielding, and excessive heat input presumably from traveling too slow with a low current. Slow travel with low current causes a excessive heat to conduct out into the base metal, so there is a large heat affected zone (HAZ) with enlarged grain structure and reduced mechanical properties, as well as slower cooling rate so the weld and surrounding metal is hot enough to oxidize as the torch and shielding is moved forward.

[Taiden]

Originally Posted by SundownIII

Taiden,

Generally, when you don't have a clue what you're talking about, it's best to STFU.

You sure post a lot for a new welder who doesn't know jack.

Remember, "Tis often better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

Just reporting what I see under me hood boss.

[Rojodiablo]

Decent comeback Taiden; let's keep it civil guys. Thank you.
And, I have to ask, sparking; grounded well, and then, any oil in the tube? If no on the oil, and good on the ground, then is the torch tip clean, good gas flow?

[jakeru]

Originally Posted by SundownIII

Taiden,

Generally, when you don't have a clue what you're talking about, it's best to STFU.

You sure post a lot for a new welder who doesn't know jack.

Remember, "Tis often better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

From what I can see, Taiden has contributed more of value to this thread than you have: http://weldingweb.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=12

I reported your post for its uncalled for, hateful, unnecessarily strong language, and I hope the mods are listening. Specifically, your language of STFU = "Shut the F*ck Up", "dont have a clue", and "dont know jack" references are inappropriate, unnecessarily strong, hateful language, which I hope the mods give you a time out for.

[Boostinjdm]

Originally Posted by jakeru

I reported your post for its uncalled for, hateful, unnecessarily strong language, and I hope the mods are listening. Specifically, your language of STFU = "Shut the F*ck Up", "dont have a clue", and "dont know jack" references are inappropriate, unnecessarily strong, hateful language, which I hope the mods give you a time out for.

What? I thought he was being civil. Not everybody is a big teddy bear.

[DSW]

Originally Posted by SundownIII

Taiden,

Generally, when you don't have a clue what you're talking about, it's best to STFU.

You sure post a lot for a new welder who doesn't know jack.

Remember, "Tis often better to remain silent and be thought the fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

Originally Posted by jakeru

From what I can see, Taiden has contributed more of value to this thread than you have: http://weldingweb.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=12

I reported your post for its uncalled for, hateful, unnecessarily strong language, and I hope the mods are listening. Specifically, your language of STFU = "Shut the F*ck Up", "dont have a clue", and "dont know jack" references are inappropriate, unnecessarily strong, hateful language, which I hope the mods give you a time out for.

I'll use a quote from Kevin Moran from another thread here. It's not a perfect fit, but I think it sums up Sundowns attitude. The not caring part doesn't apply, but Taiden is definately a new welder in need of lots more practice.

Originally Posted by Kevin Morin

New welders who post with the attitude their welds are adequate when they're clearly in need of hundreds of hours or practice, and then justify their welds with rationalizations about not caring if they're as good as full time welders- tend to get bluntly worded replies.

Taiden, you need to sit down, listen and learn... You don't really have enough hood time to make posts on how to improve tig welds. You're going to keep getting slapped when you post up info and don't really have enough background to make informed posts on the subject. This is a part of that communication thing we were talking about earlier...

jakeru if you don't know, Taiden just stared to learn tig. A quick search shows his HF tig thread started on 10-17, his 1st welds on 10-25. I'd say that Sundowns terms "dont have a clue", and "dont know jack" references are NOT inappropriate, in fact they are spot on. The kids still learning. I'd say with just a bit more than 30 days seat time all those references apply, and will for quite some time for someone who's not learning tig full time.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45656

[WeldingMachine]

Originally Posted by jakeru

From what I can see, Taiden has contributed more of value to this thread than you have: http://weldingweb.com/showpost.php?p...5&postcount=12

I reported your post for its uncalled for, hateful, unnecessarily strong language, and I hope the mods are listening. Specifically, your language of STFU = "Shut the F*ck Up", "dont have a clue", and "dont know jack" references are inappropriate, unnecessarily strong, hateful language, which I hope the mods give you a time out for.

I agree, the kid is just trying to help for crissakes...
Sometimes a noob will see things that some of us experienced guys may overlook. Not to mention, I taught a friend how to TIG 2 months after learning myself 21 years ago. He makes plenty of $$ now, so I mustn't have been to ignorant at the time..
It's just tig welding, not some elite club or something..

Mocamber, make sure your gas isn't too high, & check for oxidation on your filler rod. My shop flooded about a year ago, causing oxidation on all of my steel rods. Into the scrap bin it went

[Mocamber]

Hey all,
The bottle Is set at 15 CFM
Its not a new bottle either, I would much rather blame myself than the equipment as I am the inexperienced one.

The filler was a new stick and was wiped clean.
I'l post pictures of the torch/tungsten setup after work.

The tubes are initally coated in oil, is "sparking" consistent with oil residue? Possibly the inside of the tube is not clean enough?

And the ground is clipped onto the tube itself so all should be well there.

[jts749]

You said you were cleaning it with acetone, that should remove all of the oil residue quite easily.

[n20junkie]

What kind of cup are you using on the torch? If you don't have a gas lens one would help, but i have used a standard cup and achieved plenty good welds.

FWIW i can weld mild or 4130 with no cleaning other than what was used for fitting and get a clean weld, if it's very important I will wire wheel the ends, but never have I had to degreaser with solvent to get a good weld.

Somehow your getting contamination, probably gas shielding involved.

Your getting contamination from somewhere.

[Mocamber]

No Lens and I believe it is a #7 cup (not sure if cups have a standard numbering system).
The distance from the end of the cup to the tungsten is about quarter inch.