everlast scam

[Scott Young]

well, I nomally am on opposing sides to everlast, but tim, you aren't making any sense. The man is offering a return slip on your machine. Send it back already. Yes it was 3 times, 4 times, 5 times I can't keep up. That is nature of the beast with imports like these. keep sending it back in till you get one that works. they appear to be willing to deal at this point. isn't that what you are wanting? if not just ask for your money back and go buy another brand.

[tim7091]

Nothing has changed.my email is the same my address the same.excuses excuses.

[tim7091]

I would take my money back anytime.they refuse to give a refund.they say they sell 500 to 600 units a month.what is the big deal.what is one unit refunded to them.for me it is money to buy a new one

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by tim7091

Nothing has changed.my email is the same my address the same.excuses excuses.

your YAHOO email is bounces ups email with prepaid label
check your settings or give me fax number

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by tim7091

I would take my money back anytime.they refuse to give a refund.they say they sell 500 to 600 units a month.what is the big deal.what is one unit refunded to them.for me it is money to buy a new one

TIM , your unit is fine... torch is bad.... its been too long for a refund. Warranty is valid and available
and i will pay for shipping to warranty center . i can also send a new torch so you can try it out as well

[tim7091]

See that's how they get u.first unit DOA.it took them a few months to the next one.now its Ben four months from purchase date .next one is about a month out.that one caps out next one used once to do small tig weld job.two months goes buy I go to use plasma it quits.I asked for a refund after the second one I was assured the nested one wouldn't have a problem.that's how that goes down.they know what there doing.and so do I .

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by tim7091

See that's how they get u.first unit DOA.it took them a few months to the next one.now its Ben four months from purchase date .next one is about a month out.that one caps out next one used once to do small tig weld job.two months goes buy I go to use plasma it quits.I asked for a refund after the second one I was assured the nested one wouldn't have a problem.that's how that goes down.they know what there doing.and so do I .

its very simple ... you want me to warranty the unit please PM me info i need. Ups label is ready

[Tensaiteki]

Oleg (everlast), I say this as a regular member, not a moderator:

The way I see it, neither you nor tim is going to come out of this situation anything resembling happy. I think your best course of action is to just try and settle this once and for all as quickly as possible.

My suggestion is that you bend your own rules and give him a refund, no more shipping back and forth, no more warranties. Send him the UPS label and as soon as you see that UPS (or whoever you use for shipping) has the package, refund his money. Don't even wait for the machine to make it back to your building, just resolve this fast.

The sooner this matter is settled, the sooner this thread can end and fade into the past.

[Scott Young]

Oleg,

Tim has a point. If the first one was bad and you replaced it and the second one was bad, and you replaced it, now we are on the third and there is a problem, you should bite the bullet and refund him his money. I don't care what you have in print on your policy about refunds it should apply to a working model. You haven't held up your end of the agreement and given him a working model. YES that applies to the torch too. You can't use the machine if the torch is bad so therefore you still haven't supplied him with a workable machine. It is your responsibility to do the right thing.

THIS is why many hate your company. It isn't because of China, you don't hear people flaming ESAB which isn't made in America. Oh, there was one nut, but seriously your don't have people flaming POWCON, KEMPPI, etc. They are not USA made.

It is your business relations with the customers people abhor. If you do sell 500-600 welders a month, then what does it hurt to honor the spirit of the warranty/policy even if the letter of the warranty/policy isn't held too. As a business owner you are legally bound not to break the warranty/policy when it will cause a shortfall upon the recipient of goods and services, but you have the option to supersede the warranty/policy even at loss to yourself or your company. The warranty/policy is there for the customer's protection not yours.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by Tensaiteki

Oleg (everlast), I say this as a regular member, not a moderator:

The way I see it, neither you nor tim is going to come out of this situation anything resembling happy. I think your best course of action is to just try and settle this once and for all as quickly as possible.

My suggestion is that you bend your own rules and give him a refund, no more shipping back and forth, no more warranties. Send him the UPS label and as soon as you see that UPS (or whoever you use for shipping) has the package, refund his money. Don't even wait for the machine to make it back to your building, just resolve this fast.

The sooner this matter is settled, the sooner this thread can end and fade into the past.

Tensaiteki

in this case i will not change the terms .

[tim7091]

Thank you Scott.that's my point.all I got was a lot of promises that strung me along past there 30 day no refund policy.its a sad way to do business.if all was good I would have sent them a lot of business.

[Sparky#1]

Originally Posted by Tensaiteki

Oleg (everlast), I say this as a regular member, not a moderator:

The way I see it, neither you nor tim is going to come out of this situation anything resembling happy. I think your best course of action is to just try and settle this once and for all as quickly as possible.

My suggestion is that you bend your own rules and give him a refund, no more shipping back and forth, no more warranties. Send him the UPS label and as soon as you see that UPS (or whoever you use for shipping) has the package, refund his money. Don't even wait for the machine to make it back to your building, just resolve this fast.

The sooner this matter is settled, the sooner this thread can end and fade into the past.

Anything could happen at that point like him not getting all of his money or something once he ships.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by Scott Young

Oleg,

Tim has a point. If the first one was bad and you replaced it and the second one was bad, and you replaced it, now we are on the third and there is a problem, you should bite the bullet and refund him his money. I don't care what you have in print on your policy about refunds it should apply to a working model. You haven't held up your end of the agreement and given him a working model. YES that applies to the torch too. You can't use the machine if the torch is bad so therefore you still haven't supplied him with a workable machine. It is your responsibility to do the right thing.

THIS is why many hate your company. It isn't because of China, you don't hear people flaming ESAB which isn't made in America. Oh, there was one nut, but seriously your don't have people flaming POWCON, KEMPPI, etc. They are not USA made.

It is your business relations with the customers people abhor. If you do sell 500-600 welders a month, then what does it hurt to honor the spirit of the warranty/policy even if the letter of the warranty/policy isn't held too. As a business owner you are legally bound not to break the warranty/policy when it will cause a shortfall upon the recipient of goods and services, but you have the option to supersede the warranty/policy even at loss to yourself or your company. The warranty/policy is there for the customer's protection not yours.

Scott

fist unit was DOA because UPS totally trashed it.We send him new unit that failed now. its been a year . If i will refund then anyone will pretty much blackmail me for refund after 1+ years of the purchase. Unit is under warranty and its valid . I think Mark took the call and he thinks that torch is bad and not the actual unit. From what i understand unit is working but plasma arc is not stable going on and off. So in THIS case i dont think refund is due. Its pure warranty issue

[joedirt1966]

Originally Posted by tim7091

See that's how they get u.first unit DOA.it took them a few months to the next one.now its Ben four months from purchase date .next one is about a month out.that one caps out next one used once to do small tig weld job.two months goes buy I go to use plasma it quits.I asked for a refund after the second one I was assured the nested one wouldn't have a problem.that's how that goes down.they know what there doing.and so do I .

Everlasts Warranty States: EVERLAST will cover the shipping charges both ways for domestic customers located in the lower 48 states that have units in need of warranty within the first 30 days from the purchase date. After the 30 days from the purchase date, the customer shall be responsible for all shipping and handling costs both ways of non-functioning units for repair or replacement.

Question #1: Why would it take a few months to ship the second unit to replace the first unit "smashed by UPS"?

Everlasts Warranty States:A simple exchange of a faulty unit will be made for a new or factory reconditioned unit at Everlast's discretion.

Question #2: Why would a customer want a reconditioned unit if they paid for a new unit? There was nothing wrong with the money the customer spent.

Everlasts Warranty States:30 DAYS MONEY BACK GUARANTEE: If the customer is dissatisfied with the unit's performance, operation, quality or any other dissatisfying issue with the unit, at any time within 30 days of product receipt, the product may be returned to Everlast. The customer must ship the unit back fully insured for the full price of the unit in the original packaging and shipping boxes at customer's expense. Original outbound shipping is not refundable Return units may subject to 10% restocking fees.

Question #3: Even if Everlast resolved a first DOA, Smashed unit from UPS, etc., within the first 30 days, and the customer simply wants his money back, the customer is still stuck with the following:
1. Return shipping.
2. Original outbound shipping costs (never disclosed!)
3. 10% Restocking fee

In the end, the customer could potentially pay dearly for a non-operative unit he paid good money for! Show me a customer that would not be irate if this happened.

Personally, I wouldn't take this risk.

Lastly, Tim7091, It it were me, I would return the unit at Everlasts expense as they offered.

See if you can insure the unit for it's cost in case it disappears forever. In the event you receive another non-operative unit , I would consult an attorney.

[tim7091]

I guess oleg is a little thick.it took them almost four months after purchase date to get the second one .its my fault there on back order.if they didn't quit so. Much maybe EVERLAST could keep them in stock.trust me I asked about a refund after the second one..yeah it was five months after purchase date.five minutes of use it quit but my 30 days was up.I will say it again they assured me this never happens.can u say number four.

[tim7091]

Thanks joedirt1966.just want it over

[Tensaiteki]

Oleg, however you decide to go on the refund is your choice, but let me tell you a story (true story):

Several years ago I was working at a plant that manufactures hydraulic cylinders as a Welding Engineering Intern.

At that factory, all cylinders would be leak-tested after being welded and before getting painted and shipped. If they leaked in testing, they were sent back to be re-worked until the didn't leak, to make sure we never shipped a bad cylinder. However one day a manufacturer of man-lifts, half way across the country, called and loudly complained that one of the welds on his brand-new ~$5,000 cylinders was leaking hydraulic fluid all over his nice clean assembly floor. We made him a brand new cylinder and rush shipped it to him at great expense to us to keep him happy. By the time he got the replacement cylinder it had cost our company more than $10,000.

When the leaking cylinder arrived back at our factory, we (the Welding Engineering Department) were tasked with finding out why the weld on the cylinder leaked, why our testing didn't catch it, and what we needed to do to make sure it never happened again.

We looked up the documentation and tracked that cylinder back to the person who tested it, but we didn't blame him. Then we tracked it back to the weldor who welded it, but didn't blame him either. Instead we investigated the welding process itself, and found it to be fundamentally flawed for our purposes.

Long story slightly shorter, we determined that we needed to switch from solid-wire GMAW to metal-core GMAW. However, to do so we had to build a training center onto the plant so we could re-train all the weldors to use the new welding wire.

In the end with developing and certifying the new process, building the new training center and taking time to retrain the weldors, that one bad cylinder cost us nearly a quarter of a million dollars. We spent a lot of money to be able to re-assure our customers that something like that would not happen again.

However, switching to metal-core wire allowed the weldors and robots to weld faster, saving time and money. The training to use the new wire meant that the weldors could weld better and have fewer leaks, so we had drastically fewer leaks and less re-work, saving even more time and money. All this added up to the point that in less than a year we ended up saving more than the amount of money we spent on improvements.

The moral of the story, oleg, is that you should address the root cause of the problem (i.e. shipping damage because of inadequate packaging) rather than worrying about suppressing or trying to hide the symptoms (i.e. upset customers).

Angry or negative posts by upset customers are not 'blackmail,' they are, despite the costs, an opportunity to improve in the long run, even if you can't make that customer happy.

[tim7091]

Spoken like a true wise man

[ed mac]

[quote=Tensaiteki;486434][color=red]Moved to Other Manufacturers forum, does not belong in the News from WeldingDesign.com forum.

To all future responders: Please try to keep this discussion calm and civil, thank you.

-Tensaiteki[/co

[farmall]

We spent a lot of money to be able to re-assure our customers that something like that would not happen again.

Your company presumably NEEDED customers, because its mission included its own survival.

Since that company MADE things (cylinders) they had reason to care about quality. Sometimes that means going the extra mile to cultivate good will.

Bulk importers can just change labels and or sell something else totally unrelated. No skin in the game.

Service sells and happy customers are good ambassadors.

For example the ESAB 203 I received was inoperative and had an incorrectly soldered connector. The nice folks at Indiana Oxygen coordinated with the helpful customer service at ESAB Florence and facilitated an exchange (I kicked in the extra bucks) for a Migmaster 250 since I wanted nothing to do with the 203 after that.

I will buy from Indiana Oxygen again.

IO solved my problem quickly and smoothly so I praise them online. Woe betide any vendor who bones me, for the narrative of said boning shall be broadcast far and wide.

[WookieWelding]

Honestly after i got a 2nd unit that then blew up i would want my money back and shop else were
Luckily the unit that melted down didn't take out your shop/garage/house
I feel for you Tim that just sucks

[mot krig]

Just a question here but wouldn't it make sense that the 30 day warranty STARTED the day he received his first working unit? Not from the day you accepted his money and shipped him a dead welder(doesn't matter how it died). If that's the case, couldn't you in theory just ship people your dead units over and over until the warranty period was up and they would have no legal recourse?

I had this happen with a cell phone recently and after WAY too many hours of my time complaining as high up the management chain as I could go i finally got a new one for free even though it was against their rules - and rightly so.

Seems like really these import companies have two options - TEST every machine before you ship, package correctly, and ship using a reputable company OR relax your warranty/return policy. Either way if you want a good reputation it's going to cost you more.

A lot of people on here have been giving you guys really good advice lately and you're ignoring it because you seem to personally dislike some of your customers. It's pretty confusing but all makes me incredibly glad I found a used Miller instead of buying one of these units.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by joedirt1966

Everlasts Warranty States: EVERLAST will cover the shipping charges both ways for domestic customers located in the lower 48 states that have units in need of warranty within the first 30 days from the purchase date. After the 30 days from the purchase date, the customer shall be responsible for all shipping and handling costs both ways of non-functioning units for repair or replacement.

Question #1: Why would it take a few months to ship the second unit to replace the first unit "smashed by UPS"?

Everlasts Warranty States:A simple exchange of a faulty unit will be made for a new or factory reconditioned unit at Everlast's discretion.

Question #2: Why would a customer want a reconditioned unit if they paid for a new unit? There was nothing wrong with the money the customer spent.

Everlasts Warranty States:30 DAYS MONEY BACK GUARANTEE: If the customer is dissatisfied with the unit's performance, operation, quality or any other dissatisfying issue with the unit, at any time within 30 days of product receipt, the product may be returned to Everlast. The customer must ship the unit back fully insured for the full price of the unit in the original packaging and shipping boxes at customer's expense. Original outbound shipping is not refundable Return units may subject to 10% restocking fees.

Question #3: Even if Everlast resolved a first DOA, Smashed unit from UPS, etc., within the first 30 days, and the customer simply wants his money back, the customer is still stuck with the following:
1. Return shipping.
2. Original outbound shipping costs (never disclosed!)
3. 10% Restocking fee

In the end, the customer could potentially pay dearly for a non-operative unit he paid good money for! Show me a customer that would not be irate if this happened.

Personally, I wouldn't take this risk.

Lastly, Tim7091, It it were me, I would return the unit at Everlasts expense as they offered.

See if you can insure the unit for it's cost in case it disappears forever. In the event you receive another non-operative unit , I would consult an attorney.

joedirt1966

here you go , wlll answer one by one




Everlasts Warranty States: EVERLAST will cover the shipping charges both ways for domestic customers located in the lower 48 states that have units in need of warranty within the first 30 days from the purchase date. After the 30 days from the purchase date, the customer shall be responsible for all shipping and handling costs both ways of non-functioning units for repair or replacement.

Question #1: Why would it take a few months to ship the second unit to replace the first unit "smashed by UPS"? [color="black"]

Answer #1 New unit went out with in weeks after UPS picked up a smashed unit from Tim. My UPS WORLDSHIP system only goes back 6 month so i cant give u the actual date.


Everlasts Warranty States:A simple exchange of a faulty unit will be made for a new or factory reconditioned unit at Everlast's discretion.

Question #2: Why would a customer want a reconditioned unit if they paid for a new unit? There was nothing wrong with the money the customer spent.

Answer #2 When customer sends a unit out for warranty and in some cases it is 2+ years old unit (not in a best condition) and for some reason we cant fix it we have a right to send a reconditioned unit for exchange.

Everlasts Warranty States:30 DAYS MONEY BACK GUARANTEE: If the customer is dissatisfied with the unit's performance, operation, quality or any other dissatisfying issue with the unit, at any time within 30 days of product receipt, the product may be returned to Everlast. The customer must ship the unit back fully insured for the full price of the unit in the original packaging and shipping boxes at customer's expense. Original outbound shipping is not refundable Return units may subject to 10% restocking fees.

Question #3: Even if Everlast resolved a first DOA, Smashed unit from UPS, etc., within the first 30 days, and the customer simply wants his money back, the customer is still stuck with the following:
1. Return shipping.
2. Original outbound shipping costs (never disclosed!)
3. 10% Restocking fee

answer #3 Not correct. Returning a unit within the first 30 days, the customer ONLY pays the shipping back and 10% restocking fee, only if the unit is working but the customer doesn’t like the unit for ANY reason. If unit is fails or ups trashes the unit we do not charge any fees and full refund is provided. .

Joe, please also understand that Tim's unit is working but from what i understood from Mark is that the plasma arc is not stable and it goes on and off, in 9 out 10 times its bad torch. I offered to send the torch and even pick up shipping fees of the whole unit to the service center for warranty. Tim does not provide me with an email address where i can send him the pre paid label and i do not have a correct number for him.One of the WW members offered to buy a "broken" unit from Tim and i offered to get it services for free, why wouldn’t he actually do it ???? This doesn’t make any sense to me.Tim asked for a refund ONE YEAR after he paid for the unit ( March 6th 2010 he paid)


If Tim lost a job or something else, and really needs money he can be honest about it and i will help him out. I actually did a refund for an older gentleman because he was honest and couldn’t afford the credit card payments


Hope i answer all your questions
.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by mot krig

Just a question here but wouldn't it make sense that the 30 day warranty STARTED the day he received his first working unit? Not from the day you accepted his money and shipped him a dead welder(doesn't matter how it died). If that's the case, couldn't you in theory just ship people your dead units over and over until the warranty period was up and they would have no legal recourse?

.

mot krig

you correct , when UPS trashes the unit and we have to send new one out , 30 days start from day costumer gets second unit. Tims case is different , its been few days over a year . Again... Tims welder is working , he refuses to send in for warranty or give his new info for possible torch replacement to be send.

We do test all unit before shipping , Duncan just spend 3 weeks at the factory testing units. So we do test. We cant afford to send defective units to costumers at 50-60$ each way and pay for it.

[joedirt1966]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

I offered to send the torch and even pick up shipping fees of the whole unit to the service center for warranty. Tim does not provide me with an email address where i can send him the pre paid label and i do not have a correct number for him.One of the WW members offered to buy a "broken" unit from Tim and i offered to get it services for free, why wouldn’t he actually do it ???? This doesn’t make any sense to me.Tim asked for a refund ONE YEAR after he paid for the unit ( March 6th 2010 he paid)

.

Tim7091,
Keeping an inoperable unit is not your best option.

Why not take Oleg up on his offer?

Get the unit functioning properly and then:
1. Keep it and use it.
2. Sell it to the other WW member who is interested.
3. Sell it on Craigslist

Any of the three options above are preferable to keeping a nonoperative unit (broken/defective torch?) and wasting all your money.