Jeep Frame Repair Section

[1995moneypit]

I bought a 1995 Jeep YJ a couple of years ago and knew I was going to have to deal with some rust issues on the frame. A sizeable crack developed on the front driver's side section this winter and decided to repair it instead of replacing the frame.

I've wanted to get into welding for years, but never did. This gave me the "excuse" I needed to dive in head first. Went and got a Lincoln 140, a bandsaw, and drill press and got to work. Practiced up this winter on a cart and small bench (I'll post pics later of these) and then jumped into the frame repair.

Cut off the bad section and made some templates. Cut out all the pieces with an angle grinder and my bandsaw and welded it up. Going to install back on the Jeep today and reinforce with some fishplates.

[Hardware]

Wow...that's your third project!?!?

[DSW]

Originally Posted by 1995moneypit

I've wanted to get into welding for years, but never did. This gave me the "excuse" I needed to dive in head first. Went and got a Lincoln 140, a bandsaw, and drill press and got to work. Practiced up this winter on a cart and small bench (I'll post pics later of these) and then jumped into the frame repair.

No offence, but this probably wasn't the best idea. Small 110v migs are notorious for cold welds, and structrural frame work on a vehicle is something that requires skill and experience that I doubt you have if you just decided to "dive in head first." and learn. Projects that can kill if they fail, like structural vehicle work or trailers are poor "learning" projects.

I can't see the welds well in the picts, but they look to have been ground down. Thats usually a sign of an "ugly" weld. Since small migs often make poor welds that can "look" good, ugly welds almost never pass muster. Also when you go to weld on the vehicle, I'd expect your welds will be worse. I doubt you have done much parctice with out of position welds, vertical and overhead. It will be critical to make solid passable welds in these positions when you attach this to the frame. Also the machine itself is a poor choice. While on paper it may seem big enough, you would be much better off using a 220v machine because those small migs have a very tough time making solid welds as you push them to the max like I think you did.

Please take a few moments and think hard about the consequences to you, your family and others if this "fix" fails unexpectedly, especially if going down the road at speed. A failure like this can kill someone. If this is an off road only vehicle, you might be able to get away with it, but I wouldn't chance it myself. A new frame is cheap compared to loss of a life, a limb or having to live with the fact you killed or maimed a friend, family member or innocent person.

If you are serious about doing serious projects, I'd strongly suggest you look into some classes. That and lots and lots of practice. I'm talking about burning more than a small spool or 2 of wire. More like a hundred pounds or more in all positions. When you can make welds that can pass real bend tests every time in all positions, then you can start thinking about projects like this maybe...


Edit: I will say you did an excelent job on the basic fab work.

[1995moneypit]

I have burned more than 2 spools of wire in preparation for this project and have taken some introductory classes with a local fabricator/instructor. I realize that this is a "life or death" fabrication, but I have done my homework. I am working with 1/8" steel and maintained sufficient penetration through the welds. Yes, it was ground down, but not because the welds were "ugly". This section is visible and I didn't want to see a 18" long bead @ each corner of the box. I have always believed that fuction and structure is priority, but a little pride in the finished product isn't so bad. I was careful only to grind the bead and not dig into the base metal/structure.

This is a common repair in the Jeep world and I've seen a lot worse work make it on the trail.

[1995moneypit]

Originally Posted by Hardware

Wow...that's your third project!?!?

Yep.

Here's my first (pics don't look too good).

[motoman3b]

I had an old YJ that had frame rot issues, I used the same welder but used 3/16" steel and used flux core wire had to reconstruct a whole new rear frame from the crossmember back and it held up great no cracks or anything but more and more things started to rust on the jeep and we finally sold it to someone who parted it out. I also did the same area you did around the steering box it looks like. Just make sure you fish plate the repaired section where its welded to the original frame

[1995moneypit]

Originally Posted by motoman3b

I had an old YJ that had frame rot issues, I used the same welder but used 3/16" steel and used flux core wire had to reconstruct a whole new rear frame from the crossmember back and it held up great no cracks or anything but more and more things started to rust on the jeep and we finally sold it to someone who parted it out. I also did the same area you did around the steering box it looks like. Just make sure you fish plate the repaired section where its welded to the original frame

Seems like just about all of them did this (at least in Michigan). You must be right down the road from me. I'm in Rives Junction.

[1995moneypit]

Got the section on yesterday. Welded a 3/16" thick fishplate on the outside and engine side of the frame. Drilled some 5/8" holes on each side of the seam for some added welding surface. Also welded a 1/4" x 1 1/2" plate on the underside to span the seam as well. Will be replacing the old front crossmember with a 2" x 4" x 3/16" rect tube and will tie into the frame sections with gussets.

[Lanse]

That looks way too cold to me...

[DSW]

Originally Posted by Lanse

That looks way too cold to me...

It's hard to tell from that pict, but I'd agree based on the machine, the material used and what little I can see. Better close up picts would help greatly, especially any of the overhead welds. It's possible the welds are just very inconsistant, but I usually find that those who have that sort of issue have other problems like cold welds and poor penetration in class.

[tenpins]

get the thing put back together, go drive it hard somewhere. Leave the family at home. Come back and very carefully inspect everything you did. Ive seen what is being called a bad weld hold a lot, for a long time. Test it. Find out.

The welds on your fish plate do look cold, and the bead is irregular. little 110v wire feeders are good for welding handrail returns, and thats about it. Ive had a wire feeder and a Lincoln AC 225 in my garage for a while. For this project, I would have used the stick welder. I has enough oomph to handle this sized weld. Keep practicing, keep learning. A weldor on my job said just this friday "Been doing this almost 40 years, still learning things".

[tanglediver]

X2 on the stick machine.

The only other tool you may have to aid the little wire feeder is a torch to preheat the joint first.
Clear out everything that will burn and put that joint under some fire until it reaches 150 degrees or more. Check it with an infrared thermometer gun or temp-stick. Try that on some scrap and take a picture.
I would love to see a side by side comparison.

[Lanse]

Originally Posted by DSW

It's hard to tell from that pict, but I'd agree based on the machine, the material used and what little I can see. Better close up picts would help greatly, especially any of the overhead welds. It's possible the welds are just very inconsistant, but I usually find that those who have that sort of issue have other problems like cold welds and poor penetration in class.

True, but you can zoom in some... At 400% magnifacation, you can see that its a really tall bead, that doesn't look burned in, at all. But, I'm no expert.

[1995moneypit]

Ended up replacing three bad frame sections (front and rear driver's side and rear passenger's side) along with fabbing up a new bumper and front and rear crossmember. Don't really feel like defending my inferior work so here's some photos of me beating on the old girl to prove it held up...

[ThorsHammer]

now lets see some pictures after two years of "beating on it" then we'll talk.

rarely does a weld fail first time out. there is a reason companies do fatigue testing, repetitive cycle testing, etc.

I haven't torn into jeep frames, but I find it hard to believe that they are boxed frames made from 4 plates. More likely it's a formed C channel with a boxed in side. if it's not hydroformed tube. then flanges are welded onto that. I think you would have been better off, and had a lot less work, just to get a new complete frame.

If it's a daily driver I'm disappointed that someone would risk other peoples lives on work that could be considered questionnable.

I'm not saying what you did wasn't good work. I'm saying what you did was the wrong way of going about it. I appreciate you showing the pictures of the action shots and you obviously were not playing nice with those welds. but when you put together a frame that you already know has rust issue, through in a climate/enviroment that you know creates rust issues, and then through in welds made at the top of a machines ability you're putting lives at risk. I don't mind someone taking their own life into their hands but I'm highly offended by people who take other peoples lives into their hands without the other people even knowing the risk.

Also, are you going to keep this jeep until its scrap? if not, are you going to disclose the repairs made, and how those repairs were performed? how about letting them know that these were your first truely structural projects with a 110v welder?

[motoman3b]

I repaired a whole rear section of a YJ frame and used 2x3 3/16" tubing welded with a 140 amp lincoln welder held up fine with some off roading and mostly daily driving for over 3 years, got rid of it though tired of fighting with the on going rust/rot issues it was a never ending battle I repaired the same section of frame you did by the steering box a year before I got rid of it

[TIGger305]

Nice FAB job. im a jeep owner myself and know how stubbern thees things can be. this is not particulay a project i would take on cause of the extensive work involved and the catastrophe of what could happen if the weld failed going 60 MPH on the highway. it wouldent stop me from wheelen with u tho. and because its in an open spot u can keep up on it checking for stress cracks.(and if that happens its nothign but grinding, preheating and re-welding) but overall...NICE WORK BRO!!! and NICE JEEP!!!!

[assassin_works]

nice fab work but listen to these guys the welds on the fish plate do look cold get some fluxcore wire , run straight co2 with your mig wire or a stick machine and redo the welds for your own safety

[MikeGyver]

Welding Web rule # 1, don't ever post a vehicle structure related project, you WILL die in a firey crash, and you WILL have been warned

[VPT]

Yup ^. If it isn't a welder cart it will most defiantly fail!

[ExpatWelder]

Originally Posted by MikeGyver

Welding Web rule # 1, don't ever post a vehicle structure related project, you WILL die in a firey crash, and you WILL have been warned

Maybe I should post some of the frame repairs I have done to Haul trucks

[PapaLion]

Thanks anyway, I don't want to ride in it. We have numerous "pre runner" vehicles, Jeeps, Ford 150s, Toyota Tacomas etc... around Yuma which have been "altered" in frame and suspension at home using the finest 110v welders. I don't want to ride in any of those either.

What about the poor schmoe who buys this Jeep later, thinking it is sound and then... after numerous jumps and pops by the weldor... two or three years down the road then the thing gives way. I see Jeep frames on CL around here regularly... ? could be a solution. I think you have exceeded safe work here.

I have a small 110 v Lincoln 135, I love it, i use to tack down projects for fit, and it does a good job for sheet metal. I roll out the bigger MIG for anything else.

Your mock up skills are excellent.

[kustomizingkid]

Originally Posted by ExpatWelder

Maybe I should post some of the frame repairs I have done to Haul trucks

Do post pics of that!!!

All of your posts are awesome Expat... more posts of everything you do.

[assassin_works]

Originally Posted by 1995moneypit

Got the section on yesterday. Welded a 3/16" thick fishplate on the outside and engine side of the frame. Drilled some 5/8" holes on each side of the seam for some added welding surface. Also welded a 1/4" x 1 1/2" plate on the underside to span the seam as well. Will be replacing the old front crossmember with a 2" x 4" x 3/16" rect tube and will tie into the frame sections with gussets.

how much did over lap it or push it in old frame or did you just but them together and called it good enough

[speedfreak87]

lol!!

I think it's great work.

It makes me laugh to see how you guys get bent out of shape when someone does some welding with a 110v. I welded my roll bar in with a 110v lincoln mig, and it turned out just fine. In fact I even think I posted the question on this board and received a lot of yes you cans and a lot of I would NEVER EVER do that.. then I went and contacted a few people I know who started their chassis business with a 110v mig welder.. Not one of then said it couldn't be done, in fact I spoke to one guy who installed his own and actually had to use it when his car rolled. cage held up just fine.

If it's done correctly, it can be done, does the 110v have it's limits? absolutely. but to bash the guy for using a 110v is ridiculous..