Small dozer blade for skid steer

[Boostinjdm]

Don't get too excited. No pics yet.

I managed to trade some work for materials and would like to start my dozer blade for my Bobcat M-371 this weekend. I'm looking for input on features/size.

My bobcat is currently 34 1/4" wide outside the tires. I am almost done with my 3/4" wheel spacers. So I should end up with 35 3/4" finished width. I measured by laying 2x4s up against the tires and then measuring between them.

I don't want to make the blade too wide because I'm not sure the Bobcat could push it through hard dirt or a pile. I'm thinking 36-38" with bolt on wings for snow use.
I decided not to make it pivot side to side because I think it would just push the Bobcat sideways.
I do however want to have it adjustable forward and back to change the digging angle of the blade without changing the height (I want the arms to be all the way down with all four tires on the ground).
I want to mount tines/scarifiers across the top so when you put the blade face down the points are in the dirt.
I am having trouble deciding how tall to make it. Maybe 14-16" ?
I don't know how much of a curve to give it. Maybe copy an atv blade? My neighbor has one.
Can't decide whether to bolt or weld the cutting edge on. Welding is faster/easier, but I will have to cut it off when replacement time comes. Bolting will require design considerations to be made concerning the bottom edge.
I have 3/16" steel for the moldboard (?) and 3/8"x3" grader blade for the cutting edge.
I have 1/4" steel for the quick attach.
I have DOM and stressproof for the pivots and plenty of 2x3x1/8" or 1x2x1/8" or 1x3x1/8" tubing for the frame.

The Bobcat is very light on the front end. Am I going to have to add weights to the blade for it to dig? How far out from the quick attach do I want it? What am I missing?

I haven't used a blade on a skid steer before so I would appreciate any input from someone that has. The rest of you can chime in too.

[Sandy]

Will it angle? Make it so that at the most severe angle the foot print is just wider than the tires. You'll want it so any dirt being pushed plus sluff back to clear the tires. I' guessing you'll be close to 4 feet?

[Boostinjdm]

No, it won't angle. I said that in the first post. I don't think this skid loader is big enough or heavy enough on the front end.

Like I said, it won't angle, but if it did I would have to go a minimum of 42" wide. At 42" I could angle it 30 degrees, which seems standard, and it would give me a 36" foot print. I figured that out early on.
I'm trying to nail down specifics now so I can start cutting material.

[mrmikey]

I do however want to have it adjustable forward and back to change the digging angle of the blade without changing the height (I want the arms to be all the way down with all four tires on the ground).

If you've got the hydraulic circuits no problem, if you want to go the cheap route use an adjustable top link from a 3pt hitch

I want to mount tines/scarifiers across the top so when you put the blade face down the points are in the dirt.

Lost me there

I am having trouble deciding how tall to make it. Maybe 14-16" ?

I'd go higher by another 6", at 14" you're gonna get spoil coming back over

I don't know how much of a curve to give it. Maybe copy an atv blade? My neighbor has one.

An atv blade is a bit too flat, the more curl (within reason) will cause the spoil to curl back on itself rather than go over ythe top

Can't decide whether to bolt or weld the cutting edge on.

Go with bolt, you'll cuss now having to drill holes but not as much later when you have to gouge the old one off later. I never was a fan of welded cutting edges, more prone to breaking off imho

Bolting will require design considerations to be made concerning the bottom edge.

For sure but no biggie, go with a good heavy unequal leg angle, long leg down, that'll give you a good surface to drill and the opposite leg will give you forward/aft strength as well as a surface to weld your framework/attachment to.

I have 3/16" steel for the moldboard (?)

Good, by the time you get that rolled or bent whichever way you go it'll add strength

and 3/8"x3" grader blade for the cutting edge.

seems narrow, you're not ging to have much edge hanging below the actual moldboard

I have 1/4" steel for the quick attach.

sounds ok, depending on the design

I have DOM and stressproof for the pivots

good

and plenty of 2x3x1/8" or 1x2x1/8" or 1x3x1/8" tubing for the frame.

I'd say much too light, minimum 1/4" or more preferably, going that light I'd say you're going to get welds pulling out or bending

The Bobcat is very light on the front end. Am I going to have to add weights to the blade for it to dig?

Doesn't have power down or you're concerned the machine lifting up?

How far out from the quick attach do I want it?

As close as practical

What am I missing?

If your luck is like mine, probably a heck of a lot LOL

The rest of you can chime in too.

Smart a$$ .
I'd go look at a manufactured one and get some ideas....Mike

[daddy]

I think ultimately, you will be limited by how light of a machine you have. What I mean is, don't expect too much out of it, especially in hard material.

The bolt on cutting edge is the best way to go, but it does depend on how much use it will see. If you just tinker around with it, and push some snow, it may not be worth the hassle. At work, my guys can have one (on a bucket) ground down to nothing in a month, if we are working full tilt.(milled asphalt surface) For us,bolt on is the only way to fly.

I know you have ruled out the angle, but as an operator, I think that is one of the best features of a blade... I know, it's a little skid. I'd consider a strong center pivot, and a pinnable link for angle. You don't have to use it, but you might really like it...dunno...

Isn't the forward/back adjustment just a function of how much or little you curl? Maybe I don't read you right. I would set it so that when you are curled all the way back, the cutting edge is layed back pretty far, and then "dump" the blade to your preferred angle of attack.

For strength, mount should be as close as reasonable, I think you may have to wait and see on the weight. There is a reason that dozers are big and heavy.(Refer back to my first comment)

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[gwiley]

I use my Bobcat to plow 2 miles of gravel road for snow with and without the angle it would be far less useful. I had trouble with pushing until I added chains to the rear wheels - made it a whole new machine. You may be correct in not angling for dirt, but for snow it is a MUST have.

To setup the angle you just want to use a hitch pin through a semi-cicle behind the blade - manual adjustments keep it simple but strong enough to survive.

For the cutting edge, you might consider hard surfacing a mild steel edge since the machine is small. If you are not using it for extensive ground contact you might get away with it - if it wears to fast you can always add a hardened edge. When you do that I recommend bolts - this machine is not likely to develop enough force to sheer them.

Plan on adding plastic to the top to deflect snow and prevent it from running over the top of the blade. Landscape plastic works great, is cheap and replaceable - just bolt it on.

The blade needs to be slick for snow - especially for lighter machines. You will want to have a smooth surface to let it slide off - otherwise you end up dragging a bunch of caked on ice (been there).

You will need to be able to weight the blade down if you want to cut surface ice, otherwise it will just skip.

For snow plowing you also really MUST be able to tilt the blade to adjust the angle of attack. This is where the skid steer shines over truck mounted plows - the combination of easily adjusting height and angle of attack while I plow makes it possible to clear gravel drives with little to no damage to the gravel. Trucks tend to push a lot of gravel off with the snow.

[mla2ofus]

As far as moving dirt I'd build it like a U-dozer. I think a straight blade moving dirt will tend to make a lot of "corduroy" which can get awfully frustrating. I don't recall ever seeing a dozer on a bobcat, probably for this reason.
Mike

[tbone550]

They do make dozer blades for skid-steers, and I've done repairs to a couple of Thomas brand ones because they broke out the brackets for the adjustable top link while being used at high-speed as a snow-plow and hitting something solid like a curb.

According to my customer who owns these, I think you'll be underwhelmed at the amount of work it'll be able to do. Even pushing brush piles around can be dicey because of how close the operator is to the blade. Smoothing a gravel road as long as the material is all loose, is about as much as it'll do. You'll probably be backdragging for that anyway, and a bucket would be just as good.

It would be a fun project though. I'd probably make one myself if I had the machine, just because I could.

[RancherBill]

Angling is a 'must have' feature. It makes snow clearing much easier.

The other thing is the blade must be on some sort of trip spring system. I clear snow in the winter and the company has lots of equipment. I was using a regular bucket one day and hit a concrete joint. I stomach was sore for 2 days where the operator bar hit my gut. I hit another joint one day with the angle blade and it just folded under and nothing really happened. We use Kwik-Way at work.

[flatbustedbroke]

Check out the mini-excavators as they have a small dozer blade to push the dirt back in after digging a trench. This blade rarely gets used for that purpose it does work well to help stabilize the machine.

[Boostinjdm]

Originally Posted by mrmikey

use an adjustable top link from a 3pt hitch
That's what I had in mind.

I'd go higher by another 6", at 14" you're gonna get spoil coming back over
I'm not sure the skid will push that much dirt. Snow maybe.

An atv blade is a bit too flat, the more curl (within reason) will cause the spoil to curl back on itself rather than go over ythe top
OK

For sure but no biggie, go with a good heavy unequal leg angle, long leg down, that'll give you a good surface to drill and the opposite leg will give you forward/aft strength as well as a surface to weld your framework/attachment to.
I also had that idea last night and even have a piece of angle I think will work.

Good, by the time you get that rolled or bent whichever way you go it'll add strength
Going to add ribs too.

seems narrow, you're not ging to have much edge hanging below the actual moldboard
About 1 1/4" hanging below the unequal length angle

Doesn't have power down or you're concerned the machine lifting up?
The machine is so light I can bounce it and pivot it around by pushing on it. I've done that to square it up on the trailer.

As close as practical
I would think that if it was too close it might skip over a lot. And I thought I read somebody saying that with the blade farther out, you get a flatter graded surface due to the longer footprint. Like a road grader....


I'd go look at a manufactured one and get some ideas....Mike

I have looked at a lot of manufactured ones, but they are all for big machines. I haven't found any for a little one like mine.

[BCRD]

Originally Posted by Boostinjdm

As close as practical
I would think that if it was too close it might skip over a lot. And I thought I read somebody saying that with the blade farther out, you get a flatter graded surface due to the longer footprint. Like a road grader....

The grader idea works because of the wheels up front, if you don't have those, the "skipping" would be further aggravated by sticking it out further. Put a castoring wheel on the front of a beam (and add weights if desired), and you could do a reasonable job of simulating a grader. But it is no longer a general purpose blade. For general purpose, mount it close. And prepare to be underwhelmed

Unless of course, you have low expectations. No expectations, no disappointments...

Jason

[RancherBill]

Originally Posted by Boostinjdm

I have looked at a lot of manufactured ones, but they are all for big machines. I haven't found any for a little one like mine.

Bobcat makes them. I checked the S70 page and looked at the available attachments. The blades you want are there for your size machine. I'd downsize something you can get a good look at. Bobcat does not show every model on their site but angle blades come in 8 sizes. Here is the best pic I can find - It does not make sense doing snow with a track but what the heck.

[tenpins]

as a long time equipment operator in the army, I dont think you are going to be able to do genuine dozing with a bobcat - moving stockpiles, knocking down berms, clearing and grubbing, From reading this whole thread, any push work I think you may try and do will be greatly enhanced with a 6 way blade.
Graders can adjust the curl/angle of attack on the blade, but they are no replacement for a genuine dozer.
Make the blade tall enough to keep the spoils from coming over the top. That will jack up any work you are trying to do. Especially if you plan to push into brush piles or trees. I was almost very much no bull**** killed as a young private by pushing into a log pile when the ROPS was off the machine. My hand and the steering brake handles took the brunt of the blow.
The scarifiers are an OK idea. The old army JD 230G had the scarifier in front of the blade. Nowdays seems all the scarifiers are in the back as rippers. Ive never delved into the design change, but I speculate it was for reason.

[allfluxedup]

Ran out of time to read all the answers to your post, so I apologize for any redundancies......Definately a bolt on wear edge, I'm thinking like a bed knife from a jacobsen f10 gang mower.or similar, that would be about the right size , uses countersunk screws. If you are worried about the bobcat being too light in the front end , ie, blade and bobcat not digging in , maybe a ballast tank across the top of the blade would help. A 3 foot long 6" wide pipe with endcaps welded on and a bung on the top , a drain at the bottom. You could even make it out of pvc and experiment to find the right amount of weight then make a steel tank and weld it on. At least it would be adjustable. Damned twypos suck huh.
Mike

[DSW]

Originally Posted by Boostinjdm

[b]As close as practical
I would think that if it was too close it might skip over a lot. And I thought I read somebody saying that with the blade farther out, you get a flatter graded surface due to the longer footprint. Like a road grader....

Originally Posted by BCRD

The grader idea works because of the wheels up front, if you don't have those, the "skipping" would be further aggravated by sticking it out further. Put a castoring wheel on the front of a beam (and add weights if desired), and you could do a reasonable job of simulating a grader. But it is no longer a general purpose blade. For general purpose, mount it close. And prepare to be underwhelmed

A few rambling thoughts on this...


You'd probably be better off running this like a track loader instead. If the bucket is set up right with teeth you can just "skim" off dirt with the teeth. We had our CAT 941 set up so in "float" it would cut about 2" and run flat. You dig in a bit to start, then kick it into float and just power off the top 2". I wish I could explain it better. For the most part we could do almost as much as you could with a dozer (assuming a qualified operator). Any time we need to cut dirt with a skid steer we bolt on a tooth bar or use a bucket with teeth rather than a straight edge.

I've done a fair amount using the blade on a mid sized excavator. The small excavators however need you to apply a fair amount of down pressure from the machine to have any chance of cutting in medium to hard soil. I'm not sure if you will have enough traction to do this. A counter weight on the blade would probably be a good idea. Sort of like what we used to do to the box scraper on the Kubota.

A box scraper would be another option, and actually might work better. the box scraper usually has tines that can be dropped to loosen up hard material, and the blade/box taht can be used to push/fill. We used to stack 12" block on the top of the box to add more down pressure.

If you want to do snow, I'd simply look for a cheap Meyers blade. Around me they run less than $200 used. Chop off the A arm, shorten the blade, and weld on the QD mount. Plows are designed to trip if you hit something, dozer blades are not. Plumb in the angle cylinders to the bucket with QD's ( we disconnected the roll cylinders and used those fittings to angle the blade) Most of the parking lot guys using skid steers are using old plow blades rather than dozer type blades to move snow.

[Boostinjdm]

I thought I would try to make myself clear here. I don't want you guys thinking I've got unreasonable expectations.

I will not be doing hard work like rolling up established sod. I mostly want the blade for loose material like fresh gravel, dirt, etc. and snow.
I will not be plowing long lanes. All three of my drives are less than 50'x20'.
By skipping, I meant mostly during start and stops. My bobcat is driven by clutches not a hydrostat. It gets extremely jumpy without a bucket and only marginally better with a bucket. Placing the blade out a little farther (maybe 12" from quick attach to moldboard) might help with that as opposed to having it mounted directly to the quick attach.
I've got at least two side dumps worth of gravel I would like to spread this week. That will be the blades first job. I can spread and back drag with the bucket pretty well, but when set up on edge the bucket flexes and gives me a washboard effect. I'm hoping a dozer type blade would fix that.

[mla2ofus]

I don't like to sound negative, Boost, but I think that's going to be a real challenge spreading gravel w/ a dozer on the bobcat. It's going to be difficult controlling the corduroy or as some catskinners call it, "heartbeats".
Mike

[Vince_o]

Hears my .02 worth. When I worked for cat I used a 287 with a dozer blad a few times. I loved it! But I had to keep in mind is wasnt a dozer. Im used to 9 and 10's from when I lived in coal country, so the skid steer was a real chalange for me, with the short tracks and running by the seat of your pants. I was VERY impressed with the way it worked once I got used to it. I cut several slot ditches about 3 ft deep and maybe 30 ft long in this hard red clay down here. I still liked a bucket better than a blade.

Im wondering why your bucket is flexing, too thin? I use a tooth bucket for everyting. I often hear people say you cant clean asphault up with a tooth bucket. Thats cause they dont have any operatios. I can run equipment like you guys can run a bead, with your eyes closed.

If I built a blade Id wanna have it angle, even if it were like the old g modle 7's that you had to do manualy. Good luck and post us some pics no mater what you do.

[homegrownrmk]

Got to agree with the other operators. When spreading dirt with skidsteers, buckets will walk all over the blades. I also had a chance to demo a blade on a cat 277B, working base grade for an apartment complex parking lot. It lasted less than a day, went right back to the bucket. I didn't even want to try to get the hang of it. When pushing and spreading dirt with skidsteers, you can use the weight of the material in the bucket to apply down pressure on the tires increasing traction while still maintaining grade. Putting a blade on, you will lose that ability. Track driven skids like the cats don't suffer as bad, but you'll be spinning holes with tires. Now about plowing snow, build a blade, or modify one from an atv. As long as it angles left or right, you can windrow the snow off.

[soutthpaw]

the machine you are using is way too light to do any kind of dozering. .. bigger machines with steel tracks (I had an 863 with Logering tracks) and it did quite well. at minimum u need a blade that is heavy to the some weight on the front. Too bad u are not close to me I have some cut out sections of 2 ft diameter pipe about 4 ft wide and a foot tall 3/8 thick that would make a great blade for your machine...

[Boostinjdm]

Originally Posted by Vince_o

Im wondering why your bucket is flexing, too thin?

Bucket, arms, quick attach. The combination of all three flexing a little causes them to load up and then jump. When I have the cutting edge pointed straight down trying to scrape a bit.
I figure with the dozer blade pushing directly on the chasis (arms all the way down) this part of my problem would go away.

I was looking at my material supply and I think with a very minor design change I can make the blade capable of angling. Prolly bolt it solid in the summer and replace the bolts with hitch pins in the winter.

Would it make you guys happy if I quit calling it a dozer blade and labeled it a super heavy duty, multipurpose, snow plow instead?

[Boostinjdm]

Originally Posted by soutthpaw

at minimum u need a blade that is heavy to the some weight on the front.

I wanted to go heavier, but couldn't afford it and am limited by the thickness I can bend here at home. The blade will have 2" strengthening ribs on the back. I figure I can enclose them and fill with pea gravel for weight if I have to.

[Vince_o]

Home grown

Im with you, Rubber tires and lots of weight make for nice holes in the yard. When I was delivering rental equip for cat and hertz, I cant tell you how many people think that they can make a level yard by watching the home and garden channel! And do it all in 30 min with comercials!

[DSW]

Originally Posted by Boostinjdm

Bucket, arms, quick attach. The combination of all three flexing a little causes them to load up and then jump. When I have the cutting edge pointed straight down trying to scrape a bit.

I figure with the dozer blade pushing directly on the chasis (arms all the way down) this part of my problem would go away.

Sounds like you are grading the wrong way. To spread (scrape) I usually angle the bucket forward at about a 30 deg angle from vertical and back drag. To scrape going forward the bucket angle is very shallow ( less than 15-20 deg from flat) not at 90 deg to the surface. The only time I'm vertical like that is if I have to try and get in tight to a curb and then I quickly readjust the angle as I move away.

Your idea of why the dozer blade would eliminate the flex is why buckets work well cutting the way they do. The difference with a blade vs a bucket is the way they cut. The rolled edge on the blade will try to pull the blade into the dirt sort of like a wedge. The angle of attack will be important and probably difficult to get properly adjusted. There's a huge difference on how my Fisher plows handle dirt/stone drives. The 9' plow has a sharp forward rake to the cutting edge because of all the modifications and repairs done to it before I got the blade. It digs in very fast if the gound is even semi soft.


The 10' Fisher the edge is almost vertical to the ground and won't cut in hardly at all.



The 9' plow scrapes great on concrete asphalt. The 10' plow backdrags better however, because the 9' plow wants to ride up over the snow pile because of the "ramp" shape. It would be a bit differnt if they both didn't float in drag and were fixed like a bucket is.