Spray Transfer

[Jack772]

I have a Millermatic 252 that I use for Short Circuit welding. I would like to try Spray
Transfer. I would like to only use one shielding gas. My local welding dealer is Praxair.
What would you guys recommend?
Thanks,
Jack

[technomaster]

why spray transfer ? why wouldn't you just weld it normal with normal settings ?

[irish fixit]

I get into spray mode pretty well with C25 and 0.035" wire on my Millermatic 252. No it's not perfect but it does work. The main time I notice the difference is at the start of the weld. It doesn't always start out smoothly with C25.

And for the second poster actually the top two setting on 0.035" in the chart are in the spray transfer mode range. Thus it is in the normal settings.

[DSW]

Originally Posted by irish fixit

I get into spray mode pretty well with C25 and 0.035" wire on my Millermatic 252. No it's not perfect but it does work. The main time I notice the difference is at the start of the weld. It doesn't always start out smoothly with C25.

And for the second poster actually the top two setting on 0.035" in the chart are in the spray transfer mode range. Thus it is in the normal settings.

You're probably in globular mode not true spray with 75/25. Usually you need to be in the 15% or less CO2 range to get true spray IIRC. We usually use 92/8 argon/CO2 for short arc/ spray mix with the XMT's.

To the OP, might find this thread useful as well.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=54543

[MrLeadMan]

Originally Posted by technomaster

why spray transfer ? why wouldn't you just weld it normal with normal settings ?

What are you referring to as "normal"? Spray is a widely used mig transfer process.

To the OP we use 98/2 AR OX or 90/10 AR CO2 for spray with .045 wire. 98/2 requires less amps.

[Rizz01]

90/10 is good for an all around mix to be spray capable.
Personally, I mainly use 75/25 cause achieving spray mode is not important to me.

[irish fixit]

Originally Posted by DSW

You're probably in globular mode not true spray with 75/25. Usually you need to be in the 15% or less CO2 range to get true spray IIRC. We usually use 92/8 argon/CO2 for short arc/ spray mix with the XMT's.

To the OP, might find this thread useful as well.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=54543

I know you're supposed to have less CO2 for true spray. But it is possible to get spray with C25. It's just not as stable. Like I said it doesn't start out as smoothly. In other words the first few seconds are globular and if you run into some contamination or get your gun angle wrong it'll jump into globular mode. The big thing about the CO2 is that it take more voltage to push into spray mode so turning up the voltage a little helps with this.

I promise it works. Try it sometime.

[SundownIII]

Irish,

The point being made is that you recommended a gas mix that WILL NOT produce a proper spray transfer. The whole point of this thread (OP's question) was to get recommendations for his "setup".

To quote from Miller (and I really do think they know what their machines will do) is, "There is some acceptance of a 75%Argon/25%CO2 mixture for short circuiting and globular transfer."

Bottom line is if the OP wants to employ spray transfer, he needs to use the proper gas mix, and that's NOT C25.

I mix my own gases and I can tell right away (using the Thermco mixer) when I haven't properly purged my lines when shifting from c25 for short arc to C8 for spray.

If the OP insists on trying to "get by" with one gas mix, a combination of 90%Argon/10%CO2 (C10) is probably his best bet.

Actually, with the MM252, which in my estimation, is at the lower end of the "spray capable" machines, a mix of 98%Argon/2%O2 will yield a better spray bead.

As was mentioned in another post, the MM252 will produce a satisfactory spray transfer, however the standard M25 gun will not stand up to a steady diet of spray. I use a Bernard Q300 on my MM251 and a Q400 on the XMT.

[irish fixit]

I agree that it's not perfect. But around here getting anything other than C25 would be a special order and probably take a month (actually it's sometimes hard to get C25). I was just saying that the MM252 does better than any of the other welders I've tried it on. I'm not setup to run my MM252 through my mixer since 99% of the time I don't use it for heavy stuff. But sometimes I'll grab it for the quick heavy repair that's not going to take a lot of weld. I've just got a Bernard 200 on my MM252 so it wouldn't take it for long. My XMT has a Bernard 300 on it and I've gotten it pretty warm more than once. It's what I use if I'm going to do a lot of spray since it's got the duty cycle to handle the big jobs.

[Jack772]

Has anyone tried Praxair's Stargon CS Gas Blend?

[SundownIII]

Dang Jack,

Buy a bottle and test it yourself. It's not like you're marrying the bottle.

After your last post, I went back and read your previous posts. Here's a couple of observations:

a. You bought more welder than you needed if "the thickest I ever weld is 3/16"".

b. The MM 252 is a fine welder, but it won't do your job for you. YOU still need to do your part.

c. Worrying about "spray transfer" and what gas to use is fruitless at this point. It's too hot a process for the material you're dealing with and you'll find it useless (without pulse) to weld anything out of position.

I'd recommend you go to millerwelds.com and click on the resources tab. That will take you to an offer for their "Student Pack". It's $25 including shipping. Includes an excellent GMAW Handbook, a great TIG Handbook, a GMAW-P Handbook, along with a bunch of other useful goodies.

You, from your posts, seem to rely heavily on others telling you "how to" and "what wire/amps/etc" should I use. Spend a little more "hood time" and figure out a few things for yourself.

[Felonyass Monk]

Praxairs " mig mix gold " gives excellent spray transfer and works great for short circuit. C 25 gives a globular transfer that some may confuse for the much smoother and almost spatter free spray transfer.
Felon

[lotechman]

I have a millermatic 250 and run C20. I can just barely get into spray with .035. I really need more argon if I was to get serious about it.

[vpd66]

I've had the same experience with my Millermatic 250. 80/20 just barely gets into spray transfer.

[Alphonse]

I worked in a heavy plate shop years back, they had a production set up for spray transfer mig...used Airco Ultra-mix 80/20. and over 275 amps, 045 wire.

Spray transfer mig is a VERY HOT mode of mig welding for heavy plate say 1/2 " and over. Most mig machines will not enter the spray mode until overy about 250 amps. It is smooth as silk to run, compared to "snap, crackle and pop" short curcuit mig in my opinion. I admit the newer mig units are very adjustable to smooth out SCT mig.

[MrLeadMan]

Ran some spray arc at work today. Joining 10 gauge to 5/16 plate in a T joint. I have no idea what settings were because our stuff is old and has no read out or numbers on the dial for that matter. My point being, spray can be just fine for thin stuff. 10 gauge is just shy of 1/8th.

I have a copy of Modern Welding that claims spray with .045 wire can start as low as 200 amps with 98/2 or 95/5 gas.

Our boss likes spray arc so we use it as much as possible.

[Jweld]

I use spray transfer 75% of the time on 1/8 and thicker steel with my miller 250x. I use .045 solid wire and goldgas steelmix3. Steelmix three also works well for globular transfer. The Two settings I use most are 24 / 200, and 26 / 325ish. Never have any problems just make sure your welding in a flat position, cause the puddle is very fluid. Uphill will fill your shoe, not the weld.

[Baila La Pinza]

Why are some of you guys using spray transfer on 1/8 material? Sounds like a recipe for distorsion, unless maybe you've got it in pulse mode, but even then, would it not be better just to set the machine up correctly in dip and still get smooth beads with minimal spatter?