Comparison of Aluminum Stick Electodes - Can You Help?

[Rick V]

I want to do a review/comparison of available aluminum stick welding electrodes from different manufacturers and post the results here on the WeldingWeb. As part of that, I intend to compare the applications of 1/8 inch versus 3/32 inch diameter electrodes.

e.g. In a previous post, http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45197 , I found that the 1/8 inch Hobart arc-welding electrodes seemed to run best at about DC+ 110 amps with 200 F preheat and were OK for 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick aluminum filet T welds. However, the 1/8 inch electrodes were a challenge to use on 1/8 inch or thinner aluminum - easy to burn through. I expect the 3/32 inch electrodes running at lower amps could perform better on the 1/8 or thinner metal. On the other hand, 3/32 may not run as smooth as 1/8.
Further, the recommended amperage on the smaller 3/32 electrodes is typically 50 - 85 amps, considerably less than the 80-130 amps for the 1/8 inch electrodes. I suspect the 3/32 inch electrodes may prove more suitable for use on the small 110 volt inverter-type welders out there.

To do the comparison tests, I'll need a minimum of 5 electrodes in each size from each manufacturer. (5 electrodes = 0.15 lb of 1/8 inch or 0.1 lb of 3/32 inch.)

Note 1: Some of these electrodes get quite pricey - especially when the minimum package size to buy is 1 lb.
Note 2: Living in Canada, some electrodes are not available to me - as several US welding suppliers will not ship out of the USA. Others ship only by UPS - who charge $30+ broker fees for anything crossing the US/Canada border (US Postal Service works way better for me).

I've started gathering aluminum arc-welding electrodes for a hands-on welding pictorial comparison.

At present I have these electrodes:

• Hobart 1/8 inch (0.33 lb tube at $13)
• Forney 1/8 inch (0.5 lb tube at $22
• Blueshield (Air Liquide) 1/8 inch (0.5 lb tube at $20)

On order, or available to me locally are:

• Blueshield (Air Liquide) 3/32 inch (0.5 lb tube at $22)
• FHS EZWELD.ALU 3/32 inch (0.5 lb tube $34)
• Soudectec 70 3/32 inch (1 lb tube $65)
• Sodel 118 3/32 inch (1 lb tube $63)

Other aluminum welding electrodes available in the USA are:

• Harris 26 3/32 inch (1 lb tube $27) - Cyberweld (won't ship to Canada)
• Harris 26 1/8 inch (1 lb tube $26) - Cyberweld (won't ship to Canada)
• Zena NO-Gas 3/32 inch (0.5 lb tube $20) - Zena
• Zena NO-Gas 1/8 inch (0.5 lb tube $20) - Zena
• Bowmaweld 25360 3/32 inch (1 lb tube $27) - Weldingdepot
• Bowmaweld 25360 1/8 inch (1 lb tube $27) - Weldingdepot
• Aufhauser AL-43 in 3/32 and 1/8 inch – looks good but I couldn’t find a source

A few other USA aluminum electrode manufacturers that I found were:

• Aladdin - ??? Web site no longer works (for me anyway)
• Weldingelectrodes 3100 in 3/32 and 1/8 inch - no information
• Castolin Eutectic 2101 S, 3021, 4021 - looks like super stuff but I can't find a source

So, if you can help me, I'd sure appreciate it.

1. If you know a supplier for some of the 'no souce' items listed above, let me know.
2. If you know of other manufacturers and their suppliers, let me know who they are.
3. If you have 5 or more aluminum electrodes that you can spare, send me a Private Message (PM) and we can discuss how best to get them to me.

Hey, if you have any suggestions or comments, I have my listening ears on.

Thanks

[Welding_Swede]

Hey Rick,

First of all, kudos to you for taking the time and expense to do some real research and data collecting to share with the forum. Nice job. Seriously.

Second,
I've used the Harris 1/8" aluminum electrodes in the 1 lb. tube. Since they were the only Al electrodes I've ever stick welded with I have no comparison experience to share. Only that they seemed to do what the manufacturer said they would.

I got them from my LWS but only because I had to have them right at that moment. In case you are interested they are:

Valley National Gases
1315 Parkway Drive, Howell, MI 48843-7568
(517) 545-8500 ‎
vngas.com

Their website truly sucks. In fact, the selection in the store is pretty bad. However, the staff seem to have a "can do" attitude and that's refreshing. If you really get stuck looking for a source for these they might ship a lb. to Canada for you. I would love to just send you a pack myself but as a full time student, money is extremely tight right now.

If I remember correctly, 5 electrodes is like half the tube or close to it.

PM me if you get stuck and I'll see what I can do to help. I really want to encourage your project. Its the kind of thing that this forum exists for (in my opinion).

Thanks for taking it on.

Eric

[Scott Young]

Rick, I think what you are attempting to do would be an interesting venture. I liked reading your experiences the last time you did this similar thing. I really think you have a gift for documenting and presentation, but I do have one pertinent question:

Have you learned to weld?

You can't deteremine the quality and value of an electrode if you have mastered how to use it. As was mentioned last time, I think you have gotten the horse before the cart.

[SundownIII]

I agree with Scott 100%.

What it would appear that you're trying to do, is determine which is the best rod to use to perform an inferior process. (Stick vs mig/tig)

Lots of work on your part. Good reading for newbies. Proves nothing.

[Scott Young]

should have read:

You can't deteremine the quality and value of an electrode if you haven't mastered how to use it.

[soutthpaw]

as Scott and Sundowner stated, that was question I was pondering too? I think you should post up some beads u run with 6011. 6013, 7018 on mild steel. let see some good beads, and if they are not good I am sure you can get some good pointers here as it seems you are willing to put the time and effort into learning. I will put some of the 1/8 AL electrodes I have together for you. Your beads did seem somewhat wild compared to the ones I ran with similar settings. That is why I asked about if the machine makes that much of a difference? in 15 mins I did get better beads on just about all my trials (even on the wrong polarity) than you did with your testing. These electrodes definitely have a place. I can think of a few examples. The 4 wheeler with an onboard welding system. any place where u only have access to a stick machine and don't have welding gas access. TIG on heavy plate requires a lot of power. These seem like they will do well on thicker material. Non-Critical welds or Get Your A$$ home welds... sure beats those guys mig welding aluminum with flux core or solid steel wire, (Zaps recent axle post) right ZAP?

That said I would not even bother trying trying to use these for thin aluminum. also don't think pre heat is going to make that much of a difference. you can always run a short bead somewhere else on the plate and wait a little and it will provide plenty of pre-heat te the rest of the plate.

[Welding_Swede]

Wow...

I had no idea that the standard for doing some experimenting and posting the results on this forum was so high.

Let's make sure we don't accidentally encourage someone into doing something that may, if nothing else, be interesting. Its not like his last round with this process (inferior though it may be) had any interest. Nothing but a mere 3000 views. That's lowball compared to an Ed Mac drubbing.

I say, have at it Rick.

E

[soutthpaw]

Originally Posted by Welding_Swede

Wow...

I had no idea that the standard for doing some experimenting and posting the results on this forum was so high.

Let's make sure we don't accidentally encourage someone into doing something that may, if nothing else, be interesting. Its not like his last round with this process (inferior though it may be) had any interest. Nothing but a mere 3000 views. That's lowball compared to an Ed Mac drubbing.

I say, have at it Rick.

E

I had already discussed this with Rick before he made this thread and already agreed to send him some of the electrodes I have. I am not trying to degrade or put him down in any way, But I think the others are making a valid point, we need to see that Rick can put down some decent beads with steel to have a point of comparison for his Aluminum bead attempts. I am sure he is much better on steel and maybe we will find there is a significant difference between various brands of Al electrodes.

I am all for his testing, I think its a great idea... I am also going to check with the manager I know at one of the LWS to see if he has any odd/old electrodes laying around...

[Scott Young]

Originally Posted by Welding_Swede

Wow...

I had no idea that the standard for doing some experimenting and posting the results on this forum was so high.

Let's make sure we don't accidentally encourage someone into doing something that may, if nothing else, be interesting. Its not like his last round with this process (inferior though it may be) had any interest. Nothing but a mere 3000 views. That's lowball compared to an Ed Mac drubbing.

I say, have at it Rick.

E

so you're saying you would take marriage advice from jerry springer's panel of misfits? according the number of viewers they have they should really givbe good counsel.

[MWalden]

I am a newbie. Never welded aluminum with anything much less a stick welder. I would hate to read something, trying to learn a new process, and all the data I read was compiled by someone who didn't even know what they were doing. Regardless of how well documented, the data could be very flawed and I would have been very misled.

Not saying Rick doesn't know anything, just stating my concern.

[Welding_Swede]

Originally Posted by Scott Young

so you're saying you would take marriage advice from jerry springer's panel of misfits? according the number of viewers they have they should really givbe good counsel.

Uh... no. That's not what I'm saying. Why would you compare a contributing member of this forum to the barely human wreckage that is featured on Springer? I think you owe Rick an apology on that one.

What I'm saying is that it frustrates me to see people try to do something positive and constructive and get static for it. Or, they get challenged about their "qualifications" before they can be taken seriously. The OP has a few years and posts here on this board. I don't but I do have an opinion and I'm posting it.

And, I don't believe Rick ever portrayed his project as an attempt to give advice. I mean, for crying out loud, the guy is just running some rod and posting the results. You said yourself that he has a gift for documentation. Perhaps threads like his will encourage others to do the same.

You seem generally supportive of Rick's efforts but come on...

"Have you learned to weld?"

Really??? Have you???

I'm in the process of doing just that. I hope the learning process continues till I can't burn another rod.

E

[gwiley]

Dude! Keep up the posts. I learn a lot from folks posting pictures, discussions and the narrative from their learning. One of the cool things about Rick's posts is that they pull the veteran weldors out and generate some discussion.

Ignore the naysayers and keep up the great work.

[Rick V]

I feel that we have seen this all too often on the site.
Someone suggests something new and/or asks for help and what do they get... Pooped On!
Folks, this is getting 'Old'. What's with the pugnacious attacking attitude?
We don’t need wolves lurking here for the sole purpose of tearing our throats out of sheep.
I don't think it's helpful or in the spirit of what we are trying to do here on the WeldingWeb.

Perhaps this 'nasty attitude' explains why this site normally has 5 to 10 times as many guests online as members?
Could it be that a whole lot of folks would like to join but then read a few ‘trashed threads’ like this one and defer, afraid to join and post because they may get seriously criticized.

Originally Posted by Scott Young

I really think you have a gift for documenting and presentation, but I do have one pertinent question:
Have you learned to weld?
You can't deteremine the quality and value of an electrode if you haven't mastered how to use it.

"Have you learned to weld?" - I think that could be considered defamatory, abusive and harassing - all in violation of the Forum User Agreement.

Originally Posted by Scott Young

so you're saying you would take marriage advice from jerry springer's panel of misfits? according the number of viewers they have they should really givbe good counsel.

So now I am cast as a "misfit"? Defamatory and abusive = Read the Forum User Agreement!

And look at the result of this abuse... Scott - even the nebies are believing you.

Originally Posted by MWalden

I am a newbie. Never welded aluminum with anything much less a stick welder. I would hate to read something, trying to learn a new process, and all the data I read was compiled by someone who didn't even know what they were doing. Regardless of how well documented, the data could be very flawed and I would have been very misled. Not saying Rick doesn't know anything, just stating my concern.

So Scott, on the basis of what higher level of personal expertise do you question my competence? Are you a ‘stick-welding expert’... with what...hmmm, 1 thread showing a stick weld you made?

My Thread here is about stick-welding aluminum.
Not that I have to prove anything to anyone... but since you ask, here's some of my previously posted results - stick-welding aluminum.


Now Scott – I showed you my results, you show me yours!

Originally Posted by SundownIII

I agree with Scott 100%. What it would appear that you're trying to do, is determine which is the best rod to use to perform an inferior process. (Stick vs mig/tig)
Lots of work on your part. Good reading for newbies. Proves nothing.

Hey Sundown, in respect to welding aluminum, yep stick welds are likely inferior to welds made with mig/tig. In your shoes, operating a commercial welding business, I'd feel the same way... stick is an inferior process to meet the demands of quality and safety-critical work that you do on a daily basis.

Yet, many here don't have high-powered 200+ amp mig machines with spool guns/push/pull guns or $$$$ AC tig machines to do aluminum welding. We mere mortals don't possess the awesome arsenal of welding equipment that you do.
At least... the last time I looked, I didn't have a Syncro 250 DX, Dynasty 200 DX, MM 251 w/30A SG or an XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima Pulser.

What about the rest of us? What are our options?
Many folks here are armed only with 'pop guns' to take on aluminum. We are not going to be welding aluminum for a living or on a daily basis - - just the occasional project for 'general maintenance and non-critical repair'.

We humble folks might have a low-to-medium amperage transformer-based stick welder such as a Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 tombstone, a Miller Thunderbolt 225/150 AC/DC, a Hobart Stickmate 235AC/160DC, etc. or a low-to-medium amperage DC-Only inverter stick/tig welder such as a Lincoln Invertec V155, Miller Maxstar 150 or even one of Harbor Freight's 80, 130 or 165 amp units. Such welding equipment is generally sold mostly for home/farm 'maintenance & repair' applications... and that is exactly the application that aluminum-stick electrodes are sold for.

Originally Posted by soutthpaw

as Scott and Sundowner stated, that was question I was pondering too? I think you should post up some beads u run with 6011. 6013, 7018 on mild steel. let see some good beads

Originally Posted by soutthpaw

Your beads did seem somewhat wild compared to the ones I ran with similar settings. That is why I asked about if the machine makes that much of a difference?
... in 15 mins I did get better beads on just about all my trials (even on the wrong polarity) than you did with your testing.
... also don't think pre heat is going to make that much of a difference.

Hi soutthpaw, in a way we are comparing 'apples and oranges': you ran beads on 1/4 inch flat stock and I ran fillet welds on 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 inch T welds. I’m pretty certain that my T configuration sucks out more heat than your flat plate... and that makes a difference.

In my tests, I noticed a difference with my machines and I reported that in my previous thread on 'Stick Welding Aluminum - My Experience' http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45197 and also in my previous steel-related thread on 'Learning to Stick Weld' http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45197.

Also you mentioned that the machine you used for your aluminum trials was a Dialarc with a range of 16 - 200 amps. That's way more machine than my 140 amp max. DC transformer, cracker box (or my smaller 80-amp inverter). In my experience, the larger-amperage-capacity transformer-based stick-welding machines have a higher open-circuit voltage and a larger arc-stabilizer (inductor); both these features make stick welding better - the arc is smoother, more stable and the resulting weld beads more consistent.

Preheat: On aluminum, I found preheat made a big difference.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45197
No preheat and my welds looked very cold. Too much preheat and the consumable-electrode metal ran everywhere.
For me, 180F - 200F seemed to work well and that temperature stayed also within most code requirements.
Note: In their product literature for Alloy 26, Harris recommends preheat on sections greater than 1/8 inch.

On the other hand soutthpaw, it could well be that the 1/8 inch Bowmaweld (Manufacturer: Selectrode Industries, Inc) electrodes that you used are superior to the Hobart Aluminum 4043 electrodes that I used... and that is exactly the purpose of my proposed comparison.

Do all aluminum stick electrodes produce equal results?
I doubt it... I'm pretty certain they won't perform the same.
Heck, the 'Lite' Blueshield electrode from Air Liquide claims "self-lifting slag" something the Hobart 4043 sure didn't do!

Back to my original request.

So, if you can help me, I'd sure appreciate it.
If you know a supplier for some of the 'no souce' items listed above, let me know.
If you know of other manufacturers and their suppliers, let me know who they are.
If you have 5 or more aluminum electrodes that you can spare, send me a Private Message (PM) and we can discuss how best to get them to me.

[prop-doctor]

just keep doing what your doing Rick
I for one enjoy your threads

[MWalden]

RickV, I certainly do not know you and I have no knowledge of anything you have done before and what you skills are. Please do not think I was taking anyone's word on your ability. I have no call to condemn you or your efforts to provide good solid technique. I didn't mean to imply that I did not want to see you post this data, I simply stated that I want to see data posted by someone who has knowledge of what they are doing so that I can feel confident that I can learn from the data. If you have the knowledge then, by all means, please continue this as I am extremely interested in this process.

I have no developed skills so I cannot criticize yours.

[rankrank1]

I for one will be following this thread with interest. I am a self-admitted hack of a welder. If there is an aluminum rod that is easier to use on a common homeowner grade arc welder then that would be good information for me to know. ( I would like to know what the 7014 idiot rod equivalent is for aluminum as that is the one that I need).

I too often have to improvise with the less than perfect tool in order to get the job done.

[Jay O]

I'm sure it would take more then a couple of pounds of any of this rod to get some good practice time under the hood and at its current cost it might be cheaper to pay someone else.

[soutthpaw]

Originally Posted by Rick V

I feel that we have seen this all too often on the site.
Someone suggests something new and/or asks for help and what do they get... Pooped On!
Folks, this is getting 'Old'. What's with the pugnacious attacking attitude?
We don’t need wolves lurking here for the sole purpose of tearing our throats out of sheep.
I don't think it's helpful or in the spirit of what we are trying to do here on the WeldingWeb.

Perhaps this 'nasty attitude' explains why this site normally has 5 to 10 times as many guests online as members?
Could it be that a whole lot of folks would like to join but then read a few ‘trashed threads’ like this one and defer, afraid to join and post because they may get seriously criticized.


"Have you learned to weld?" - I think that could be considered defamatory, abusive and harassing - all in violation of the Forum User Agreement.


So now I am cast as a "misfit"? Defamatory and abusive = Read the Forum User Agreement!

And look at the result of this abuse... Scott - even the nebies are believing you.


So Scott, on the basis of what higher level of personal expertise do you question my competence? Are you a ‘stick-welding expert’... with what...hmmm, 1 thread showing a stick weld you made?

My Thread here is about stick-welding aluminum.
Not that I have to prove anything to anyone... but since you ask, here's some of my previously posted results - stick-welding aluminum.
Attachment 68548

Now Scott – I showed you my results, you show me yours!
Attachment 68549



Hey Sundown, in respect to welding aluminum, yep stick welds are likely inferior to welds made with mig/tig. In your shoes, operating a commercial welding business, I'd feel the same way... stick is an inferior process to meet the demands of quality and safety-critical work that you do on a daily basis.

Yet, many here don't have high-powered 200+ amp mig machines with spool guns/push/pull guns or $$$$ AC tig machines to do aluminum welding. We mere mortals don't possess the awesome arsenal of welding equipment that you do.
At least... the last time I looked, I didn't have a Syncro 250 DX, Dynasty 200 DX, MM 251 w/30A SG or an XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima Pulser.

What about the rest of us? What are our options?
Many folks here are armed only with 'pop guns' to take on aluminum. We are not going to be welding aluminum for a living or on a daily basis - - just the occasional project for 'general maintenance and non-critical repair'.

We humble folks might have a low-to-medium amperage transformer-based stick welder such as a Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 tombstone, a Miller Thunderbolt 225/150 AC/DC, a Hobart Stickmate 235AC/160DC, etc. or a low-to-medium amperage DC-Only inverter stick/tig welder such as a Lincoln Invertec V155, Miller Maxstar 150 or even one of Harbor Freight's 80, 130 or 165 amp units. Such welding equipment is generally sold mostly for home/farm 'maintenance & repair' applications... and that is exactly the application that aluminum-stick electrodes are sold for.



Attachment 68550


Hi soutthpaw, in a way we are comparing 'apples and oranges': you ran beads on 1/4 inch flat stock and I ran fillet welds on 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 inch T welds. I’m pretty certain that my T configuration sucks out more heat than your flat plate... and that makes a difference.

In my tests, I noticed a difference with my machines and I reported that in my previous thread on 'Stick Welding Aluminum - My Experience' http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45197 and also in my previous steel-related thread on 'Learning to Stick Weld' http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45197.

Also you mentioned that the machine you used for your aluminum trials was a Dialarc with a range of 16 - 200 amps. That's way more machine than my 140 amp max. DC transformer, cracker box (or my smaller 80-amp inverter). In my experience, the larger-amperage-capacity transformer-based stick-welding machines have a higher open-circuit voltage and a larger arc-stabilizer (inductor); both these features make stick welding better - the arc is smoother, more stable and the resulting weld beads more consistent.

Preheat: On aluminum, I found preheat made a big difference.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=45197
No preheat and my welds looked very cold. Too much preheat and the consumable-electrode metal ran everywhere.
For me, 180F - 200F seemed to work well and that temperature stayed also within most code requirements.
Note: In their product literature for Alloy 26, Harris recommends preheat on sections greater than 1/8 inch.

On the other hand soutthpaw, it could well be that the 1/8 inch Bowmaweld (Manufacturer: Selectrode Industries, Inc) electrodes that you used are superior to the Hobart Aluminum 4043 electrodes that I used... and that is exactly the purpose of my proposed comparison.

Do all aluminum stick electrodes produce equal results?
I doubt it... I'm pretty certain they won't perform the same.
Heck, the 'Lite' Blueshield electrode from Air Liquide claims "self-lifting slag" something the Hobart 4043 sure didn't do!

Back to my original request.

So, if you can help me, I'd sure appreciate it.
If you know a supplier for some of the 'no souce' items listed above, let me know.
If you know of other manufacturers and their suppliers, let me know who they are.
If you have 5 or more aluminum electrodes that you can spare, send me a Private Message (PM) and we can discuss how best to get them to me.

Rick, that is perfect, now we have a nice baseline to compare your aluminum welds to. I did stick the 1/8 rods in the oven overnight. as old as they are I am sure it won't hurt. I do know that there will be some contamination due to bits of the flux that have just fallen off but, but the price is right... My problem is I don't have any Al plate to weld on. I think I have some coupons somewhere that are 1/8" about 5" long I can try...

[Rick V]

Hey there soutthpaw... have a great trip to LA!

Well things here are coming together. I have 1/8 inch electrodes branded as Hobart, Forney and Blueshield (Air Liquide). Coming are 3/32 inch electrodes branded as Blueshield and also Harris (via my nephew in Dallas, Tx).

I'm waiting to hear if a US manufacturer of electrodes is willing to provide me some samples of their product in sizes of 1/8, 3/32... and 5/64! The small diameter 5/64 inch diameter electrodes with low-amperage & heat input may prove useful for welding thin 1/16 to 1/8 inch plates.

Plus that US manufacturer claims, "exclusive self lifting slag".
This 'new development' could be beneficial as my previous experience with the flux/slag on the Hobart electrodes was not fun - interrupted the arc, couldn't see the weld puddle and darn hard to remove.
However, I wonder how ""exclusive" this self lifting slag is... as three brands of electrodes claim this too:
1 - Forney DC Aluminarc - "exclusive self-lifting slag"
2 - Air Liquide Blueshield MNR Lite - "with self-lifting slag"
3 - Inweld A-3 Aluminum Electrode - "with exclusive self lifting slag"
Who knows, perhaps this US electrode manufacturer produces all the above three brands?

As for test pieces, I have a stacks of aluminum plates 1/16 and 1/8 inch thick, 6 inches long by 1.5 inch wide. Come Monday I head over to my metal supplier and hopefully purchase some suitable end of plate cut-offs in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch thickness.

[Rick V]

The company Selectrode manufactures a small diameter 5/64 inch, aluminum stick welding electrode in a 5% silicon alloy called selectrode 1190.
I'd like to try stick welding with these small diameter electrodes on thin 1/16 and 1/8 inch aluminum.

Trouble is, the company hasn't responded to either of my two electronic inquiries, the first asking for free samples, the second asking for a retail source/brand-name for their 5/64 inch 1190 product. (Granted their business is selling large quanitity of electrodes to distributors... but it all starts/ends with the purchaser/rod-burner. Seems pointless to advertise a unique product that is not available to purchase. )

Got any suggestion of how to get hold of 5/64 aluminum electrodes?
(I couldn't find any other source on my Internet searches.)

Anyone living in Pittsburgh (Aliquippa) Penn who could locally rattle the Selectrode cage?

[soutthpaw]

I keep meaning to ask if you are using a forhand (push) or backhand(pull) when running these rods. I did backhand on mine... also what rod movement are you trying? weave, whip etc??? In CA now. my Powcon should arrive this week, waiting for another person to get back to me about a different powcon needing repair for sale.. Being arc-products is an hour down the road, I figured a good time to find one was here in CA.

I had mixed experience with the AL slag. some came off easy and other was a pain... Need to find a knotted 4 1/2 inch stainless wire brush for my grinder. should get a day this week I can go hit a couple of welding supplies in CA. needing some parts to build railing in my back yard anyway and the selection and pricing here in LA is way better than CO

[rankrank1]

Rick - Not much progress so far with this experiment. Maybe step 1 should be to test the rods that are easily/readily available in the stores that are open both late evening hours and long hours on weekends. Unfortunattely, many of the welding suppliers are not open on weekends when many of us weekend warriors are likely to have to implement an emergency need for stick welding aluminum. I have one welding supplier that is open until Noon on Saturday's but I have no idea what they carry in regards to aluminum rod. My other welding supplier is closed Saturdays. Regardless both are more than 40 minutes from my home so it is not easy for me to get there during the week when I am working long hours. I truly like my one welding supplier, but it hard for me to get there so I frequently purchase where it is more convenient for me even though it usually costs slightly more at the chain stores.

I can not speak for Canada, but in the United States area of SW Ohio this would pretty much limit the choices to:
a) TSC (i.e. Tractor Supply Company) carries Hobart in the 1/2 lb or 1 lb service packs of aluminum rods in both 3/32 and 1/8 diameter.
b) Menards carries US Forge brand welding rods and they offer an 1/8 diameter aluminum arc rod.
c) Small independent Hardware stores seem to carry Forney brand, but Forney seems to be phasing out much of their line-up and carrying Hobart so may not be worth evaluating as old stock may simply be replaced with Hobart as it is sold off????
d) NAPA auto parts. Not sure what they stock anymore, but they used to stock some welding supplies?
e) Lowes and Home Depot stock some rods, but I have never seen any aluminum arc rods there.

Anway - food for thought.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by soutthpaw

I keep meaning to ask if you are using a forhand (push) or backhand(pull) when running these rods. I did backhand on mine... also what rod movement are you trying? weave, whip etc???

Hi soutthpaw...
- slight backhand, no whip, no weave.
(Note: The Hobart electrodes that I had used came with no detailed instructions.)
As I said in a previous post...
"just keep moving steadily and don't look back. Frankly, you just don't have time to attempt anything fancy (whip) with the rod burning down so fast..."

Originally Posted by rankrank1

Rick - Not much progress so far with this experiment.... test the rods that are easily/readily available in the stores that are open both late evening hours and long hours on weekends."

Progress: Well, you aren't paying for this... so be a mite patient.
It's taking time to gathering the electrodes - I'm waiting on 3/32 Harris mailed from the USA... have to get past our Postal Strike!
It's also taken time to acquire the aluminum material and to prepare all the 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick 'coupons', each 6 x 1.5 inches. In fact I have to make another metal run tomorrow to purchase more 1/4 inch plate.

Easily/readily available:
I do accept this point.
I purposely chose not to use certain brands of electrodes available here in the local Ottawa welding stores because I`m pretty certain you (in the USA) may not have access to them.
e.g. 4 Brands: Messier, Soudotec, Sodel and EZWELD.ALU

In respect of electrodes from the late evening & weekend stores:
a) TSC - yes I have Hobart 1/8 from TSC (Hobart doesn't make 3/32 inch)
b) Menards & US Forge - no Menards here, US Forge brand I've not seen in Canada
c) Forney - yes I have 1/8 from a local fasterner store.
d) NAPA - I could check that out... stock if any likely varies by size of store
e) Lowes & Home Depot - here they don't carry any specialty electrodes, just a pitiful selection of 6011 (maybe), 6013, 7014 (maybe) and 7018.

However, I have to strike a balance - I found that some of the 'better looking' common brand electrodes and any of the 3/32 inch types are only available though local welding stores or 'online'.
e.g. Blueshield (Air Liquide brand) 1/8 and 3/32 from LWS, Harris from Cyberweld (don't ship to Canada, coming via a nephew in Dallas, Tx)

Also, sometimes the package sitting on the shelf is too big (e.g. 5 lbs) and the 1/2 lb pack has to be ordered in.
e.g. 3/32 Blueshield - 5 lb on shelf, 1/2 lb was ordered in - took a week.
e.g. Harrris - available in Canada through LWS but only in 5 lb pack, Cyberweld (USA) repacks and sells/ships them in 1 lbs packs... but won't ship to Canada.

Add into the mix that these things are not cheap. The price in small 1/3 to 1/2 lb packs ranges from $36 to $69 per pound with $45 being the norm. Some of the prices I was quoted were ‘insane’ – e.g. $82/lb.

So yes, it's taken a while to jump through the hoops.
It all about Balance...
I can't test what I can't get and there's no point in testing what you can't get.

So it's looking like it's going to be 1/8 inch in Hobart, Forney & Blueshield and 3/32 inch in Blueshield and Harris.

[rankrank1]

Rick - Sorry I did not mean to imply impatience as that was not my intention. I do realize the considerable expense involved although I had no idea that some of those excotic rods were quite that expensive. I was just throwing out my idea in hopes that it might streamline both your efforts and your costs.

In the US we can get Messer as it is a US based company in Wisconsin but it is by mail order at least in my area. (I have never heard of Messier other than the Hockey player long since retired - LOL). FWIW: I think the US Forge rods are a division of the Messer corp. I think they are even made in the same factory, but I have no idea if the quality and ingredients are the same between brands. I do know the contact addresses are identical for both companys.

My mistake on the 3/32 typo for Hobart. I got my websites confused when searching earlier today. Zena was the website that I saw them - they are the maker of the famous bolt on welder about the size of a vehicle alternator).

http://www.zena.net/htdocs/welders/Rods/Aluminum.shtml

Also found them here

http://www.weldingrods.com/#!aluminum

[Rick V]

Hey rankrank1... not too worry - no offence taken or meant to be given.
I thought your suggestions were 'spot on' and useful - also gave me a chance to include the reasons why things are the way they are.

Messier or Messer? Now you got me confused.
I thought the 5 lb blue-plastic carton at my local Praxair said 'Messier', but it could have said 'Messer'. The Praxair dude consulted his price sheet and said it listed at over $70/lb but he would give me a 'special price' of $208.45 for the 5 lb carton. (That's $41.69/lb) Trouble was... I needed only a 1/2 lb for the test; I was not about to buy 5 lbs of an unknown product.
"Same Factory"... sounds like your Messer = US Forge. (US Forge is 1/8 inch diameter only.)
I too am wondering just how many of these 'different' brand name electrodes I will be testing may have come out of the same factory.
e.g. That exclusive 'self-lifting slag' doesn't appear all that exclusive.

Zena - yeah, good suggestion!
I had ZENA NO-Gas All Aluminum Arc Welding Rods (3/32 and 1/8 inch) on my original list but dropped them because... let's see... oh yeah while the price was good at $19.95 per 1/2 lb pack, there were shipping challenges to Canada:

a) USPS (mail was not an option) - this is usually the cheapest method, avoids brokerage fees and if under $20 value comes in with no sales taxes. (Duty is zero.)

b) $14.00 UPS shipping charges on a $20 item?... but what was not stated is the ~$30+ per order that UPS charges for cross-border brokerage fees.

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