Changing jobs - my certs are 'mine'?

[4043]

Time for a change of scenery, I'm just not wired for answering to the biggest leak in the payroll of my main job. Concerning my certifications...when I leave employment, what are the legal ramifications of them trying to use my certs to get jobs into their shop after I'm gone?

al

[jmtebbens]

I don't have a whole lot of experience with this, but here is my opinion anyway. Unless you are going into direct competition with them (check your contract, if applicable, for a noncompete agreement), then why bother? If you are really THAT critical, the drop in quality will show and they will have to deal with it on their own anyway.

Perhaps a few anonymous phone calls to the important customers will persuade things as well.

Have you considered talking to your boss's boss? If you are going to leave anyway, what have you got tonlosenbybdiscusing a change in the company hierarchy?

[4043]

No contract so no problem there. As far as 'why' goes, I don't loan my stencil out either.

al

[shovelon]

What did you qualify for, where, on what equipment, and who paid for it?

[Supe]

Depending on the code of construction, one of two things could happen:

1) You're required to retest, either by code or by policy
2) Their "engineer" can choose to accept evidence of previous qualification (read: certs and welder continuity log) to qualify you under their program.

There are exceptions, but that's the norm.

[sooeey2u]

Freedom of Information Act applies to your WPQ's (certs) and the company must make copies of them available to you.

However you must check with HR and see how this is handled, you make be required to submit a written request for your personnel file and certs therein.

As stated earlier, the EOR may choose to accept certs from another company. If you are in the petrochemical industry or a facility involved in Sec VIII Div 1 or B31.1 codes it is likely that the EOR will not accept your certs.

You should always ask for a copy of your WPQ early after qualifying. They are more likely to give you a copy at that time than at time of your resignation.

Good luck to ya,

QCRobert

[shovelon]

Freedom of Information Act. Ya learn something every day.

But I can't see how an employer would allow me to test in his facility on his machines, to his requirements, with his materials, and then send them to a test facility and pay for the results, then give the documentation to me so I can quit and get a better paying job elsewhere. Since they are only good in his shop, on his equipment, for his customer, paid for by him, they are proprietary information, and his property.

Oh, unless it is a UNION cert.

[Pangea]

I think you guys are missing the question. It seems that the unscrupulous company might try to entice customers into their shop by presenting the credentials of the OP. Since he doesn't work there anymore, they are falsely representing their capabilities to potential customers.

[puddlemutt]

Hi guys i work in the nuke industry and with my experience your previous certs are only good to put on a resume you usually have to test for your future employer by asme code no mater wether you have papers or not

[DamageInc537]

Unless they have other people with the same Quals or certs i would think that can't use them.. the customers might even require a recert or a requal to do the job.

Around here Harvard University, doesnt accept welding certs, unless the cert was taken in the previous 90 days, even if you have kept up your cert and or continuity, regardless of how long yo've welded for

[4043]

Originally Posted by shovelon

What did you qualify for, where, on what equipment, and who paid for it?

Have 5 basics, tested offsite at a lab/school, company paid for each test. I've since chatted off-record with an attorney, he pretty much stated that it's a case of my talent/my name and the company would do well not to profit from it post-employment.

al

[4043]

Originally Posted by Pangea

I think you guys are missing the question. It seems that the unscrupulous company might try to entice customers into their shop by presenting the credentials of the OP. Since he doesn't work there anymore, they are falsely representing their capabilities to potential customers.

Yes, exactly what I meant. Not sure how I could prevent any potential future misuse, guess I'll deal with it after the fact if I get wind of it.

Thanks for your help

[Rick V]

What the company does after you leave is mostly their affair unless they use your name.

Example:
Suppose you were an XYZ certified welder at the company.
The company web site may promote that they have an XYZ certified welder.
When you leave, the company may leave the web site as is - still claiming an XYZ certified welder.
This is no longer true but that is the company's affair, not yours.

On the other hand, suppose the company web site lists your name as an XYZ certified welder.
When you leave, the company cannot leave the web site as is - still showing your name as their XYZ certified welder.
This is no longer true and it is your affair because they are using your name.
Note: The company may need a 'reasonable' amount of time to make a change in employee listings on their web site.

That's my view.

[weldbead]

if they misrepresent themselves to a customer, the customer has to show how he has been harmed ..if they sell something of equal quality to what you built and say it was done by you, i dont think they have legal liability because no harm was done to the customer..thats from one course in torts a long time ago..
as far as the certs i guess it varies depending on he certifying body..ive heard of certs that are good for 6 months ..thereafter the employer must state that the weldor remains employed at that certification every 6 months to keep the cert valid..

[shovelon]

Originally Posted by 4043

Have 5 basics, tested offsite at a lab/school, company paid for each test. I've since chatted off-record with an attorney, he pretty much stated that it's a case of my talent/my name and the company would do well not to profit from it post-employment.

al

Well basically they own your certs. But they need you to do the work and sign the documents. If they are not providing supporting documents with each delivery, they don't require a certified welder.

In my shop, I rotate the proceedure/operator certs between my weldors. They can leave anytime they want, and I still own and use the proceedure qualification part of the test which allows us to still produce the product. The best part is that I am certified on most metals, so they can eat worms and die, and their certs are only good in my shop on my equipment. Ha Ha.!!!!!

I train and keep my people for a long time, and pay them very well. But unless they pay for testing on thier own nickle, I never give copies of the qualifications, which by the way are approved by me.

[SeanMurphy265]

I worked in QC for a structural steel plant and gave the welding test and sent them off. We gave the certifications to the employees when they left if they wanted them. It's been a while since I did this, but this is what I remember. We certified welders for liability and compliance for the shop's certification through the AISC. Also Las Vegas and Las Angeles have their own criteria a structural steel shop must comply with. We did give out test that were AWS certified, they were sent off to an approved lab for testing and x-ray. The certification belongs to the welder/employee not the shop. You have to weld a certain amount of hours every six months to maintain the certification. If someone left for another welding job and were gone for over six months and came back you had to re-test. This happened all the time. Most people who left for another welding job got the job from experience and certification, but most had to re-certify for the new company at some point. I think your certifications are only good for 2-3years I believe, but you have welded a certain amount of time every 6 months. I'm sure more companies are serious about certifications, but I know the company I worked for it was for liability and compliance. I know certain plants the require welders to go through their certification during shutdowns regardless of your existing certifications.

[shovelon]

Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265

I worked in QC for a structural steel plant and gave the welding test and sent them off. We gave the certifications to the employees when they left if they wanted them. It's been a while since I did this, but this is what I remember. We certified welders for liability and compliance for the shop's certification through the AISC. Also Las Vegas and Las Angeles have their own criteria a structural steel shop must comply with. We did give out test that were AWS certified, they were sent off to an approved lab for testing and x-ray. The certification belongs to the welder/employee not the shop. You have to weld a certain amount of hours every six months to maintain the certification. If someone left for another welding job and were gone for over six months and came back you had to re-test. This happened all the time. Most people who left for another welding job got the job from experience and certification, but most had to re-certify for the new company at some point. I think your certifications are only good for 2-3years I believe, but you have welded a certain amount of time every 6 months. I'm sure more companies are serious about certifications, but I know the company I worked for it was for liability and compliance. I know certain plants the require welders to go through their certification during shutdowns regardless of your existing certifications.

You are right about maintaining a 6 month continuity to keep your certification valid.
For commercial or military work a shop certification is non transferable, paid for, and owned by the shop. The shop maintains and holds the documentation. This is what my shop does.

Structural and field certification to the best of my knowlegde is typically paid for and owned by the individual. The documentation is held by that individual while moving from job to job. It is important for that individual to maintain his continuity log lest the certifcation terminate.

[sutto]

Your certs are accompanied with your personal information such as a photo copy of your DL. Why would a reputable company even think about falsifying documents? Do you think you are the only welder who can pass their test. I really do not see much sense in the question to begin with...

[Macguyver]

Originally Posted by shovelon

Well basically they own your certs. But they need you to do the work and sign the documents. If they are not providing supporting documents with each delivery, they don't require a certified welder.

In my shop, I rotate the proceedure/operator certs between my weldors. They can leave anytime they want, and I still own and use the proceedure qualification part of the test which allows us to still produce the product. The best part is that I am certified on most metals, so they can eat worms and die, and their certs are only good in my shop on my equipment. Ha Ha.!!!!!

I train and keep my people for a long time, and pay them very well. But unless they pay for testing on thier own nickle, I never give copies of the qualifications, which by the way are approved by me.

"their certs are only good in my shop on my equipment. Ha Ha.!!!!!:" and "unless they pay for testing on thier own nickle, I never give copies of the qualifications, which by the way are approved by me " . Sounds like a terrific place to work, I can see Exactly why and how you 'keep your people' in your shop on your equipment.

Welding certs should be like other major trade licences, state by state, owned by the individual and employer be dammed.

[shovelon]

Originally Posted by Macguyver

"their certs are only good in my shop on my equipment. Ha Ha.!!!!!:" and "unless they pay for testing on thier own nickle, I never give copies of the qualifications, which by the way are approved by me " . Sounds like a terrific place to work, I can see Exactly why and how you 'keep your people' in your shop on your equipment.

Welding certs should be like other major trade licences, state by state, owned by the individual and employer be dammed.

Oh yeah. Trade liscense, like the ones YOU paid for???????

Again, if I pay for it I OWN it.

Ever qualify yourself for any AWS qualification???????

[shovelon]

Originally Posted by 4043

Have 5 basics, tested offsite at a lab/school, company paid for each test. I've since chatted off-record with an attorney, he pretty much stated that it's a case of my talent/my name and the company would do well not to profit from it post-employment.

al

Your attorney has it right. There is a considerable amount of post weld inspection and documentation that needs to be signed by the inspector and weldor. If your old company forged your signature that would be fraud. But you better have hard evidence or it could be you in the fire.

[shovelon]

Originally Posted by 4043

Have 5 basics, tested offsite at a lab/school, company paid for each test. I've since chatted off-record with an attorney, he pretty much stated that it's a case of my talent/my name and the company would do well not to profit from it post-employment.

al

I am going to assume this is an SMAW qualification? This is the only offsite qualification that can be used in shop and field scenarios.

[shovelon]

Originally Posted by shovelon

I am going to assume this is an SMAW qualification? This is the only offsite qualification that can be used in shop and field scenarios.

GTAW, GMAW, PAW, must qualify in facility and equipment of production. All these qualifications are proprietary and owned outright by the employer.

Upon completion of welds using the qualified WPS, subsequent documentation must include additional weld parameters such as date, part #, p.o. #, filler heat/lot #, quantity, ect. Then must be signed by inspector and operator. Signiture by management authoritity other than operator involved would be conflict of interest.