How to tell where steel comes from?

[flatbustedbroke]

Finished a couple jobs for a customer that I will be posting later, they supplied the new steel from a supplier I try to avoid. They claim that it is all Canadian made. The inside of the c on the channel was not consistent (made a jig for cutting the channel cross members it fit tight in some places loose in others wouldn't fit at all in some). The large 3 x 5 angle had the roughest texture I have ever seen. When cutting with the band saw some places cut like butter while others would pull teeth and this could be just a couple inches away. Drilling was the same way drill one hole no problem move 2 inches over with the same bit and the bit would dull. This was all done with cutting fluids and prior to welding. The steel wasn't marked at all. Also the sheet was very irregular and out of square made the job a pain.
How do you know where your steel comes from? Bought plenty in the past that was marked USA. But what about the Chinese, Turkish, etc.?

[zapster]

Too many ground up Toyota's in that batch..
What you got there is recycled crap probably from China..
They buy most of the scrap from here...


Where did you get the material?
Any big time steel suppliers have all GOOD stuff and will come with a material composition sheet with it...

...zap!

[norite]

Usually, at least here in Canada and from what I've seen from the US, channels and beams usually have the mfr name and country rolled into the web of the shape.

Sounds like you got sold some scrap/rejects, hope the price was right.

[lotechman]

I think your expectations for structural grade channel are a little high. The dimensional tolerances ( mill tolerances) are quite wide. Also the alloy content is open... Not wide open but grade is primarily determined by yield strength and ultimate tensile strength.
If there some sort of requirement for the job you should have asked for mill certifications.
Most good steel suppliers booklets include standard tolerances. The leg length of channels can easily vary 1/16 and I have seen variations of almost 1/4 inch. Normally joints between members are not tight. The webs are tight and the flanges of intersecting members are gaped with no weld. If the drawing calls for completely welded joints between intersecting members then you have to custom fit each joint.
I know that it goes against all common sense but structural sections are joined with top surfaces matching fpr a smooth floor support and lower flanges are left to where ever they may be. It works well on a building but as soon as someone uses structural sections for another application there are complications.

[mrusso]

All the steel from my supplier is stamped CANADA.

[weldbead]

those were the days.

[flatbustedbroke]

As posted this was supplied by the customer from a supplier I don't use. They claim it is Canadian but no marks as to origin it did have its analysis(a small sticker 2"x4"). I have used this jig for channel previously and it has always worked fine. Sometimes its hammer tight sometimes the gap is a little big but with this steel it sometimes wouldn't fit at all or it went in with a huge gap. I guess what I was wondering was if all Canadian steel is marked as such?
Zap it came from a supplier that is in St. Louis and is one of the larger ones in that area.

[BTD]

Like lotechman said...if it's really important, you need to require that your supplier provide mill certificates and that the certs state where the ingot was melted. I'm guessing that your project probably isn't that critical but I may be wrong.

We have a project in house now that requires that all steel must be from US, Japan or Germany. We found out real quick that this was an impractical requirement so we expanded the list to include Canada and all of western Europe (don't know why Canada wasn't on the list to begin with?!?). In one isolated case, we accepted Chinese steel forgings but had to bite our tongues.
I've noticed that manufacturers are becoming very creative in how they write product description to avoid telling us their crap is made in China or India. You really have to drag it out of 'em.

Seems like US steel is becoming a precious commodity....too bad.

[AndyA]

I've bought steel with "U5A" rolled into it. If you don't look really close you'll think it says "USA". The paper tag says "Made in China", but the paper tag falls off quickly

[Matt_Maguire]

Originally Posted by AndyA

I've bought steel with "U5A" rolled into it. If you don't look really close you'll think it says "USA". The paper tag says "Made in China", but the paper tag falls off quickly

Now that is depressing.

From what I see coming in the neighbors shop misc. iron is getting pretty hit and miss.

Matt

[Scott Young]

ALL the metal I weld has a heat number. That number traces back to the smelt and foundery. If the distributor keeps good records and marks his steel then you know you have a good distributor. I have to log every heat number on every weld job. At the end of the day, I have a list of numbers that will coorespond to my prints and have heat numbers for every part. Even for our repair work we have gotten into the habit of writing down the heat numbers and logging the steel for the job so if (when) we are ever sued, we will be able to prove what steel we used.

Now we have a bunch of unmarked steel that gets used for tabs and decor stuff and anything that isn't important.

[nadogail]

Usa is a city in Southern Japan.

[DSW]

Originally Posted by nadogail

Usa is a city in Southern Japan.

I can remember as a kid my father talking about things coming over that said "Made in Usa" on them being from Japan. A similar marketing ploy to get people to think they were buying Americian instead of an import.

[Brink, M.E.]

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/usa.asp

I find that TASTE is the best way to indicate where steel comes from. We received a batch of plate steel from Ukraine at work awhile back and I'm pretty sure I narrowed the taste down to uranium and potatoes. Canadian steel tastes more like maple syrup. Japanese steel can range anywhere from sushi to uranium. Depending on the state of origin USA steel can taste like steak, cheeseburger, philly steak, etc.

[bert the welder]

Originally Posted by norite

Usually, at least here in Canada and from what I've seen from the US, channels and beams usually have the mfr name and country rolled into the web of the shape.

Sounds like you got sold some scrap/rejects, hope the price was right.

X2
All the angle I've ever used always has die rolled "Made in Canada" every 5' or so.

[bert the welder]

Originally Posted by flatbustedbroke

As posted this was supplied by the customer from a supplier I don't use. They claim it is Canadian but no marks as to origin it did have its analysis(a small sticker 2"x4"). I have used this jig for channel previously and it has always worked fine. Sometimes its hammer tight sometimes the gap is a little big but with this steel it sometimes wouldn't fit at all or it went in with a huge gap. I guess what I was wondering was if all Canadian steel is marked as such?
Zap it came from a supplier that is in St. Louis and is one of the larger ones in that area.

I doubt it really was Canadian. Unfortunately, due to the increase in greed, the assumption that the local big supplier is going to be the go to place just doesn't hold. They'll selectively include crap in your order and hope you don't notice.

[Sandy]

Well looks like we've decided to take a trip down memory lane here so while playin outside today I decided to take some pics of these. Some channel by Bethlehem Steel San Fran. Not ancient but they'll never be back we know that.

[kolot]

In the early 80's we would get steel that as above was proudly and very clearly stamped Bethlehem and it was very nice to work with. Then we would get a load of H beams that would at best have a paper tag on them, from Japan or even worse China or god knows where. Welding wasn't such a problem but cutting with a torch would make you scratch your head. You would start and then blow out a ragged section, or you would loose the cut unexpainably and have to pre heat and start again. This was due to a lot of porosity in the steel where the american steel you could freehand cut right along very clean and with almost no slag once you were dialed in. This told us in the field a lot about the quality differences.

[SeanMurphy265]

I worked for a Steel Supplier for a few years when the economy was still booming. I actually went to work everyday 30 miles away from my company at a structural steel plant. I was in charge of an account that supplied the steel, that was eventually was fabricated for Wal-Mart. At the time we were in the process of becoming ISO-9000 certified. When the economy tanked the ISO stuff was out the window! One thing that is good about a steel company or any company that is ISO certified is 100% traceable materials. All mill length (uncut) still had a series of numbers and place of origin of the metal. ISO held the company accountable to supply the best quality materials to our customers. Because of money/prophets/fuel/etc most companies have dropped their ISO certification. I know the steel I have purchased in the last year (from a local company) has had no markings. I am pretty sure the company I worked for had 2 grades of steel; one for the companies who needed traceable materials, and the cheap stuff for the average joe who came in to buy steel.

I know some of the USA steel companies have invested in recycling plants to produce new steel. Eventually this will affect the price of foreign steel as more companies invest in recycling scrap metal. I also wonder how the quality difference of recycled vs regular steel.

[operdot]

I have come across hot rolled steel that had a full ball bearing inside of it once.

[Scott Young]

Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265

I worked for a Steel Supplier for a few years when the economy was still booming. I actually went to work everyday 30 miles away from my company at a structural steel plant. I was in charge of an account that supplied the steel, that was eventually was fabricated for Wal-Mart. At the time we were in the process of becoming ISO-9000 certified. When the economy tanked the ISO stuff was out the window! One thing that is good about a steel company or any company that is ISO certified is 100% traceable materials. All mill length (uncut) still had a series of numbers and place of origin of the metal. ISO held the company accountable to supply the best quality materials to our customers. Because of money/prophets/fuel/etc most companies have dropped their ISO certification. I know the steel I have purchased in the last year (from a local company) has had no markings. I am pretty sure the company I worked for had 2 grades of steel; one for the companies who needed traceable materials, and the cheap stuff for the average joe who came in to buy steel.

I know some of the USA steel companies have invested in recycling plants to produce new steel. Eventually this will affect the price of foreign steel as more companies invest in recycling scrap metal. I also wonder how the quality difference of recycled vs regular steel.

Those numbers you are talking about are called heat numbers.

[LawsonWeldingLLC]

If it came from the supplier in St louis i purchased 5052 from the other day i wouldnt doubt its sub standard crap.... shapcrapiro can shove it ....I did not know aluminum could oxidize that badly.

[flatbustedbroke]

Wasn't crapiro's but not much different. What you bought there was def. seconds and possibly used.

[LawsonWeldingLLC]

Honestly i wouldnt doubt it , if it doesnt shoot ill send them the bill. Guess i shoulda bought the 4x 12 sheet and cut coupons out of it from a local shop here in Kc probably have to do that anyway.