Carbon Arc Torch building question...

[Carbide]

Hi -

I have a Lincoln AC/DC stick machine and would like to build a Carbon Arc Torch for heating metal - like in this instructional article:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make...volt-stick-we/

Question: is there anything else that I could use instead of the Carbon rods?! Not sure where to get those... my father had left me a bunch of Tig tungsten spikes (sorry, don't know the proper term) - could those be used instead?!

I have purchased two el-cheapo soldering irons hoping to harvest the rods from them, but the cheapo ones look like they are just made of regular steel... so I don't think that would work. Plz help.

THx,
James

[denrep]

Carbide - Carbon rods are readily available and inexpensive.
Any welding supply would have carbons in stock.
In case you're stranded on a deserted island, I'll mention that a dry-cell flashlight battery can be "gutted" for a short length of carbon.

If none of that works, PM your address to me and I'll slip a few carbons in a tube and mail 'em to you.
Anyway, the Post Office needs the work.

Interesting project. Keep us posted.

Good Luck

[Oldiron2]

Originally Posted by denrep

Carbide - Carbon rods are readily available and inexpensive.
Any welding supply would have carbons in stock.
In case you're stranded on a deserted island, I'll mention that a dry-cell flashlight battery can be "gutted" for a short length of carbon.

If none of that works, PM your address to me and I'll slip a few carbons in a tube and mail 'em to you.
Anyway, the Post Office needs the work.

Interesting project. Keep us posted.

Good Luck

Long ago, I picked up some 1" diameter x 8" long "carbons" in the desert near old mining sites, the only remains of long-dead batteries used in the 1905-1930 era. Wonder how many amps they could safely handle?
I have some 1/2" x 18" carbons with an enriched graphite center to give them a more stable arc. Similar ones used to be used in those WWII giant searchlights, and one-of-these-days I intend to see if mine work in one; I actually have a friend who owns two!


BTW, one problem with using tungsten rods is that they require an inert atmosphere to keep from being destroyed; carbon is much cheaper too.

[jpump5]

I use the arc gouging electrodes commonly available at lws, in my home made carbon arc torch.
Not really made for heating and brazing, but readily available and they work pretty well.

[denrep]

Originally Posted by jpump5

I use the arc gouging electrodes commonly available at lws, in my home made carbon arc torch.
Not really made for heating and brazing[, but readily available and they work pretty well.

Why not really made for heating and brazing?
Is there supposedly a special carbon for the CAT?

[denrep]

Originally Posted by jpump5

I use the arc gouging electrodes commonly available at lws, in my home made carbon arc torch.
Not really made for heating and brazing[, but readily available and they work pretty well.

Why not really made for heating and brazing?
Is there supposedly a special carbon for the CAT?

I gouged with drive-in movie projector carbons for years - until I outlasted what was supposed to be a lifetime supply of 'em.

Oldiron2 - that's interesting. I wonder what they used for power way out there and way back when?

Good Luck

[Oldiron2]

Originally Posted by denrep

Why not really made for heating and brazing?
Is there supposedly a special carbon for the CAT?

I gouged with drive-in movie projector carbons for years - until I outlasted what was supposed to be a lifetime supply of 'em.

Oldiron2 - that's interesting. I wonder what they used for power way out there and way back when?

Good Luck

I haven't looked at one closely or for quite a while, but believe the units are basically two parts: a giant fuel-driven generator coupled to the arc control, parabolic mirror and lens system.
I need to get some pictures of one sometime, not just for my own records, but to post here too.

BTW, Zap;
I'd bet there's no ordinance about glaring lights "accidentally peeping in" the windows or busy yards of obnoxious, noisy neighbors.....



Did anyone make hollow carbons for gouging, similar in shape (but not action) to the exothermic rods?

FWIW, here's a source of carbons; the first place I tried 'offhand':

http://fresnooxygen.com/products.mci...bon+electrodes

.

[Scott Young]

as for hollow carbons, that would be interesting.

[denrep]

Originally Posted by Oldiron2

. . .Did anyone make hollow carbons for gouging, similar in shape (but not action) to the exothermic rods? . . .

Yes, hollow carbons are still made.
But... air doesn't travel down the center (as far as I know) the hollow center follows a theory about controlling current flow and not developing a "needle point" while burning.

I've tried ‘em but didn't notice any big difference in operation.

Good Luck

[jpump5]

Originally Posted by denrep

Why not really made for heating and brazing?
Is there supposedly a special carbon for the CAT?

I gouged with drive-in movie projector carbons for years - until I outlasted what was supposed to be a lifetime supply of 'em.

Oldiron2 - that's interesting. I wonder what they used for power way out there and way back when?

Good Luck

From pictures I've seen of lincoln CAT's, proper electrodes seem to be larger diameter,
shorter and not copper clad.(compared to 1/4" Arcair electrodes from my lws).
I don't know if the carbon is any different.

[skelley521]

Ok, I'm not getting this concept.
They are using gouging rods to heat metal to bend??

[Silicon-based]

Regular gouging carbons work fine in carbon-arc torches on DC, but not on AC. With DC, the positive carbon wears faster than the negative, and some people use 1 size larger carbon on the + side to compensate. Carbons made for AC do exist, they have a core made from various oxides which stabilizes the arc- movie-projector carbons are this type, but the core mixture is optimized to provide pure white light.

John

[skelley521]

I've used gouging rods a lot, mostly 1/4" - 3/8" for gouging welds out, both round and flat.
I just don't get how they are using them for heating steel, wouldn't a O/A torch work better.
Especially that home made apparatus doesn't even look safe to boot.

[denrep]

Originally Posted by skelley521

I've used gouging rods a lot, mostly 1/4" - 3/8" for gouging welds out, both round and flat.
I just don't get how they are using them for heating steel, wouldn't a O/A torch work better.
Especially that home made apparatus doesn't even look safe to boot.

Skelley - With gouging's furious dig, I know what you're thinking, but believe it or not, two carbons arcing create a gentle soft and controllable arc, with significant heat output.

Try it sometime, just connect a carbon to each lead.

Good Luck

[skelley521]

Thanks, I will give it a try. On the contractors machine first tho.....lol.

[jdchmiel]

is the carbon arc only useful fwhen it is from carbon to carbon? Could you use one carbon rod arcing to a workpiece that is grounded through regular ground clamp to get a more "torch like" effect or would it not be hot from carbon to metal vs carbon to carbon ?

[papaharley03]

Originally Posted by skelley521

I've used gouging rods a lot, mostly 1/4" - 3/8" for gouging welds out, both round and flat.
I just don't get how they are using them for heating steel, wouldn't a O/A torch work better.
Especially that home made apparatus doesn't even look safe to boot.

They were very popular several decades ago when lots of folks had the AC buzz boxes in their garage. This is a lot less expensive than an O/A set up and controlling the arc by moving the rods closer or further apart was considered an art in and of itself. Back then, Lincoln, among others, sold these as an accessory to the buzz boxes.

Papa

[denrep]

Originally Posted by jdchmiel

. . .Could you use one carbon rod arcing to a workpiece that is grounded through regular ground clamp to get a more "torch like" effect. . .

That works well too.
It takes some care not to "puddle" the surface of the metal being heated.

Good Luck

[Scott Young]

I have a carbon torch and I use gouging carbons. I have an original box of carbons that was for the torches and they are carbon covered.

I use my dc gouging carbons both on ac and dc. it works both ways. I have used them as a single carbon were the arc is directed to the metal like a country boy tig and I have used them in pairs where the ard is running from one to the other and you heat the metal from the heat generated from the arc.

In a pinch I have taken a strip of copper or copper wire and wrapped the carbon and then stuck the wire into my electrode holder. I then am able to slide the carbon up and down the wrapped metal and I am able to use the carbon as a single carbon torch. I do this when in the field and need to heat a bolt where I can't get a torch or can't use open flames.

If I don't have copper wire I will take an electode and wrap it around a screwdriver and then slide the carbon through it. Trying to wrap a steel electrode around a carbon will break the carbon.

[jdchmiel]

great tips!
LWS should have carbons? I want to try the copper wrap in an electrode holder trick.. and I can definately see use this for bolts as you say..

[boatbuoy]

the uv from the carbon arc is a lot more intense than what you get from weld rod. great tanning machine. you can get blisters without a great deal of efort. so cover up good. yes,i hurt myself pretty good the first day with the new toy---some 40 years ago.

[Bluewelders]

Carbon arc used to be included with the little 50a buzz boxes from Wards and Sears.
It worked far better than the welding use of the welder.
I have one setting out in the garage.
The carbon arc part was used by slipping the insulated handles onto the output leads.

[rankrank1]

See this thread - Rather condensed version of about all you would ever need to know about Twin Carbon Arc with links showing demos and info on how to build your own.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=42262