Chop saw. U.S.A. made?

[Welderskelter]

I would like to know if there is any chop saws made in the states. Wont buy chinese. Thanks Harold

[eman]

It's such a shame that there's no reply to this but there's probably not one made here. Too bad. That's also the reason there's very few jobs here. People just don't get it. or just don't care which is worse.

[Charleyhorse]

Originally Posted by eman

It's such a shame that there's no reply to this but there's probably not one made here. Too bad. That's also the reason there's very few jobs here. People just don't get it. or just don't care which is worse.

The reason we don't make things here is because gov't taxes and regulations have made it
unprofitable to do so. It simply costs too much to make things in America. We will start making things here again only when the business climate improves. That may not happen until we experience a few decades, or maybe even a century of grinding poverty and misery. It took Russia 75 years of severe pain before they could get rid of their centrally managed gov't. The same thing may happen here.

[tackit]

I doubt there is anything purely American made today....Milwaukee's 6180-20 is made in Taiwan.

http://chopsawsreviews.com/milwaukee-6180-20/

[WyoRoy]

I seriously doubt that gov't taxes and regulations are to blame for the minimal offering of U.S. manufactured abrasive chop saws. More likely would be the average Joe wanting to pay no more than $100-$150 for an abrasive chop saw.

Going up a level in both cost and design, Kalamazoo still makes a fine American made, last I knew, abrasive chop saw. I have the Do-All version in a 10" and it is a beast.

http://bandsawblade.com/kalamazoo.ht...FUhjTAod7SS3_g

[dstevens]

Originally Posted by Charleyhorse

The reason we don't make things here is because gov't taxes and regulations have made it
unprofitable to do so. It simply costs too much to make things in America. We will start making things here again only when the business climate improves. That may not happen until we experience a few decades, or maybe even a century of grinding poverty and misery. It took Russia 75 years of severe pain before they could get rid of their centrally managed gov't. The same thing may happen here.

The reason most tools aren't made here has nothing to do with taxes regs. We have some of the lowest tax rates and regs in the developed world, Particularly compared to western Europe. Our government subsidizes more large business and industries than most other develop markets. Craftsman and Snap On still manage to make tools here. The reason for the offshoring is that the market, we, in the US are demanding lower and lower prices. And as shareholders of public companies demand more and more return, something has to give. In a business labor is typically the largest operating expense. Middle class workers in China that have good jobs make a grand or less a month. A month. Normal over there are 6 days of 10-14 hours a day. Would you work for $12k/ year (and thats a good, high paying job over there) under those conditions?

[Ries]

the problem is, you want dirt cheap disposable crap, and then you want it made in a country with actual living wages.

there are "chop saws" by which I assume you mean abrasive disc cut off saws, made in the USA.
they just cost more than the throw away units at Harbor Freight.

Everett, for example, has been making em here for years-
http://www.everett-ind.com/everett/index.htm

there are a couple of other companies that make similar saws in the USA, too. They are made of metal, not plastic, use real motors, and last a lifetime.

but they cost more than most people want to pay.
http://www.kalamazooind.com/


Makita still has a factory in Buford Georgia, but I am not sure what tools they make there.
I am pretty sure they make miter saws for wood there, but I dont know if they make their metal cutting chop saws there too.

If you really want american, buy an ellis bandsaw...

[David Hillman]

Originally Posted by dstevens

And as shareholders of public companies demand more and more return, something has to give.

We might be demanding it, but we're not getting it. Dividends yields are historically low during the 'offshoring decades'.

S&P 500 Dividend Yield

[Welderskelter]

Thanks guys. Didnt realize there were so many of these still made here. I will have to get on the horn tomorrow and check them out. Harold

[Fat Bastard]

Government regulation and taxation are not the only factor, but they are high on the list of the many reasons jobs are fleeing the USA.

Do not dismiss so fast the impact that regulation and law impact business in the USA. Tort reform, EPA reform, IRS reform, are all things that need to happen along with you the consumer DECIDING that buying from your neighbor is better for you than buying from CHINA. Until you the consumer wakes up government will not reform.

[fortyonethirty]

I believe regulation needs to shift from the producer to the product, that would help level the playing field. In other words: everything sold in USA should have to comply with the equivalent EPA, OSHA, etc. standards, regardless of origin.

Also, using the name of a place in USA for products made elsewhere should be outlawed. If the damn thing says "Minneapolis" it ought to have been made in Minneapolis, or at least near by.

It's a shame that the Japanese company is the only one left making tools in USA.

Rant over.

My makita grinder was made in USA, and I'm happy to report it's the best grinder I've ever had.

[Jake98]

I think it would be easier to fix our problems at the ballot box than at the Big Box store. The laws of economics are called laws for a reason. And I think congress should be a volunteer job. Anybody that wouldn't do the job gratis doesn't have the right attitude.

[bassboy1]

Originally Posted by dstevens

The reason most tools aren't made here has nothing to do with taxes regs. We have some of the lowest tax rates and regs in the developed world, Particularly compared to western Europe.

Just how many tools are we importing from Western Europe? Western Europe is surviving because we are still around, holding them up to some extent. When we go, so will they

Our government subsidizes more large business and industries than most other develop markets.

Which is certainly not a good thing.

Craftsman and Snap On still manage to make tools here.

May want to check your data there. Both (especially Snap On) are moving quite a few things overseas.

we, in the US are demanding lower and lower prices. And as shareholders of public companies demand more and more return, something has to give.

Yep, in a truly free market (something you've never seen as it hasn't existed within the lifetime of anyone living today), this would lead to greater efficiency, and new technology that increases production. Without subsidies or regulations preventing such, if prices were to high, consumers would quit buying. If shareholders want more, there are two options - lower costs of production, or raise prices. Seeing as raising prices would cause folks to quit buying, which would counteract the shareholder's desire for more, the most economically viable option would be lowering costs, often with the use of more efficient machinery, or a new method of creating the same widget, or chop saw, in this case.

Middle class workers in China that have good jobs make a grand or less a month. A month. Normal over there are 6 days of 10-14 hours a day. Would you work for $12k/ year (and thats a good, high paying job over there) under those conditions?

Back in the 1970s, Americans were happy to work for that. Why? It was a comfortable salary. Look at the cost of living over there. In many cases 12k/yr is a comfortable salary over there. This is a case of "figures don't lie, but liars figure." Your facts are indeed factual, but when used out of context, can be [intentionally] misleading.

[David Hillman]

Originally Posted by Jake98

I think it would be easier to fix our problems at the ballot box than at the Big Box store. The laws of economics are called laws for a reason. And I think congress should be a volunteer job. Anybody that wouldn't do the job gratis doesn't have the right attitude.

Even if you managed to find an honest candidate to vote for, how would you keep them from being corrupted by Washington? Did you know that insider trading is legal when done by Congressmen? They've actually exempted themselves from that law ( along with millions of others ).

Unfortunately, removing salaries from Congress will only make the problem worse. Only rich people can afford to work for free. It's not the pay that corrupts, and the job doesn't actually pay that well... it's the massive graft and theft that the job provides the opportunity to engage in. That's what needs to be fixed, but that's a much harder problem.

People are spending millions of dollars for the chance to earn $175,000 a year for a couple years. Why? Because along with those paychecks, they get the keys to almost unlimited side income.

[bassboy1]

Originally Posted by David Hillman

Even if you managed to find an honest candidate to vote for, how would you keep them from being corrupted by Washington? Did you know that insider trading is legal when done by Congressmen? They've actually exempted themselves from that law ( along with millions of others ).

Unfortunately, you are right, and as such, the only way to get out of this mess is to pretty well crash completely, clear the slate, and start over.

[Welderskelter]

Well, dont think one of them should be that hard to build. Two bearings and a motor made in U.S.A. and I am in business. Checked on the Kalazamoo saw and they wanted 2065 bucks. Thanks for all your help. Harold

[papaharley03]

Originally Posted by bassboy1

If shareholders want more, there are two options - lower costs of production, or raise prices. Seeing as raising prices would cause folks to quit buying, which would counteract the shareholder's desire for more, the most economically viable option would be lowering costs, often with the use of more efficient machinery, or a new method of creating the same widget,

Sorry to disagree, but the first thing management typically does to cut costs, is to lay off workers. It produces a brief feeling of euphoria for management, until they see the drop in productivity because they have demoralized all of their workforce. Watched it happen time and time again in my profession over a quarter century and in many other businesses.

But just like American Airlines, the workers get boned, while management continues to draw big salaries and bonuses.

[Jake98]

Originally Posted by bassboy1

Unfortunately, you are right, and as such, the only way to get out of this mess is to pretty well crash completely, clear the slate, and start over.

Crash the whole country?? I hope that's not what you're saying, half of us will starve and it'll get very ugly. We need to crash the runaway train that is federal spending. State spending too, in lots of places.

[David Hillman]

Originally Posted by Jake98

We need to crash the runaway train that is federal spending. State spending too, in lots of places.

The problem is that there's virtually no chance of this happening. Maybe if we could clone a few hundred Ron Pauls and elect them all, but that's a ways off yet. Everyone else is just in it to get rich, and/or simply doesn't understand that if we continue to spend like we have, we are going to follow Greece, Italy, etc into effective bankruptcy.

[Llundberg]

I don't know why people are so hung up on where things are made. There's no way I would buy an inferior product just so I could say 'I bought locally made product'.

[WeldingMachine]

Originally Posted by Llundberg

I don't know why people are so hung up on where things are made. There's no way I would buy an inferior product just so I could say 'I bought locally made product'.

Because the USA used to build everything for everyone, & things used to last.
Now we do not, & Nothing lasts...

There are 15 Million people in the USA that used to have good manufacturing jobs and are now out on the street, we SHOULD worry about where stuff is made.


The Kalamazoo chopsaw is a bear & will last forever, but isn't very portable.

[Drf255]

Originally Posted by Jake98

I think it would be easier to fix our problems at the ballot box than at the Big Box store. The laws of economics are called laws for a reason. And I think congress should be a volunteer job. Anybody that wouldn't do the job gratis doesn't have the right attitude.

Yes, but this is our own fault. What "Normal" person hasn't made a few mistakes in their lifetime? What normal person doesn't need to make a living? We seem to not be able to elect someone who's ever made a mistake.

Does anyone here really think that Herman Cain pinching his secretaries A$$ makes him a terrible candidate for president? Cast the first stone.

We also expect these guys to do the job for relatively little pay. Pay them a boatload as a salary and stop the corruption necessary for these guys to make a decent living.

What makes us great is what also destroys us. We all have an equal vote. So the family man who's working 2 jobs to make ends meet has the same say in who's elected as the 18 year old lazy POS who refuses to work and lives off the system.

Control on the local level does more destruction than good many times. I'm unable to buy a small building for my healthcare business because of ridiculous parking regulations set forth by my township. Unless your extremely rich, there is nothing touchable by the average guy trying to live the American dream. I don't get to play golf with the town supervisor and stroke him. When I go to the town hall, they treat me like I'm trying to open a strip club.

Enough of my rant....

[Jake98]

We already have 10X as many laws as we need. We should mothball the capitol, they could take care of business over the internet like everyone else. After one term they get benefits for life, gimme a break.

[lugweld]

Originally Posted by dstevens

The reason most tools aren't made here has nothing to do with taxes regs. We have some of the lowest tax rates and regs in the developed world, Particularly compared to western Europe. Our government subsidizes more large business and industries than most other develop markets. Craftsman and Snap On still manage to make tools here. The reason for the offshoring is that the market, we, in the US are demanding lower and lower prices. And as shareholders of public companies demand more and more return, something has to give. In a business labor is typically the largest operating expense. Middle class workers in China that have good jobs make a grand or less a month. A month. Normal over there are 6 days of 10-14 hours a day. Would you work for $12k/ year (and thats a good, high paying job over there) under those conditions?

That's not exactly true. American workers have demanded higher and higher pay as well. I'd be happy to live on 12k a year if it bought more (which it does in countries where pay is lower). Everytime you make a minimum wage raise or increase workers salary cost goes up...and people's buying power goes down, and in turn those people demand more from their bosses in form of pay and the cost to produce the goods that those people make go up. Anyone notice the NOSEDIVE the economy took about 3-6 months when the minimum wage jumped to 7.25? It might not be much but when a workers pay jumps over a dollar an hour that's 40.00 extra per week. In a large corporation like McD's multiply that by hundreds of thousands of workers. They will either raise the cost of their food or lay off people, or a little of both. That's a huge increase in cost of operation that are recovered. The additional problem that results is that puts people that were making above minimum wage by an dollar or so an hour suddenly on the bottom and they demand more, and so does everyone else because there's the real perception that their money is going to buy less...Its a viscous cycle. If we lowered the minimum wage back to 5.25, it'd hurt for about a year or so for some folk but in the end prices would drop and people would go back to work.

[fredschrom]

I am not opposed to international products, I have some very well made stuff thats imported. None of it says China though. German, Swiss, Japanese, British, Swedish and Chech are all countries where I own a product from and got a good product.

When I originally got into metal/tools/steel/knives/guns I had a list of where the best made steel in the world came from. Short list: ( in no particular order)

1. Sheffield England
2. Sweden
3. Soligen Germany
4. USA

There was a almost as good tier with some names like Japan and Czechoslovakia and a couple others.

Now go look at the #1 tier list and who even still makes steel on that list...England doesn't manufacturer anything but thugs nowdays, Sweden still does some but hard to buy in the US do to cost, Soligen ( and Krupp ) are specialty markets small production, and the US steel market is a fraction of what it was post WWII. All of the above seemed to suffer from the same problem competion from inferior product at cheaper prices. Sheffield in particular suffered from the general shutting down of British industry and had nobody to sell to.

A interesting observation on quality steel, I am ex Army and a places that make good quality cannon barrels make good steel, has to do with three rounds through the barrel and the barrel drooping with crummy steel. That above first tier list all made good cannon barrels some still do.

I will close with a couple of quotes:

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

“Quality is not act. It is a habit.” ~Aristotle

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."