Help Me Decide Please

[scoostraw]

I am deciding which welding machine to buy. My needs are a little varied, but mostly I'll be welding mild steel - automotive repairs, some minor fabricating - etc. Nothing really heavy. I've been looking at the Millermatic 175.

I am a welding novice, although I am an experienced mechanic. Almost everyone I've spoken with has said to go with a wire-feed machine. Everyone that is except one person. My friend Jim maintains that I should start out with a stick welder. His comments are below. I would appreciate it if you guys (and gals) would chime in with your input!

Jim says:

* Yeah wire feed machines are great ... IF you are working on clean metal in controlled enviroment
* For repair work stick is the way to go
* Get the stick machine.. you wont regret it - and then get the wire for sheet metal
* Get some scrap metal to practice on and you will see what i am talking about
* I did commercial portable welding for 3 years and did about every kind of job out there
* You can weld thin materials with stick - that is why they have amp control is for
* U turn down heat and use 3/32" fast freeze weld rod ... 6010 or 6011 ... i used airco rods .. they are cheaper but any brand will do
* 6013 is all purpose .. would work on light stuff too
* You only need 1/8" and 3/32" for 99% of jobs you will be doing
* And with dc setting you can be beginner and do lighter stuff
* Bottom Line: Yes wire is easier ... you could take it home and probably weld right away ... on clean metal and basic job that is..
* With stick you will need to become familar with process and learn how to weld and how to adjust machine etc ... you be able to do about any job that comes along .. not limited
* It is not rocket science and with little practice you will be a pro
* If u REALLY want to "learn" how .. acetylene is the way to go
* Wire is very easy ... but very limited
* It is great for production jobs
* If you only want to do a job or two a year (and same kind of job) ... should be fine
* But stick will give you so much more versatility ... and less cost for machine
* Here is another way to think of it ...
* Wire is for production
* Stick is for repair

So what do you all think ???

[Birken Vogt]

Depends on what you are repairing.

If you are repairing a tractor that is made of heavy metal that cannot be cleaned entirely properly then I think you know the answer

If you are repairing an automobile fender that is a different story

They say that flux core in a wire feed is as good as stick for dirty stuff though so there is that option too.

I suggest one of each!

Birken

[TozziWelding]

You can do anything with a stick welder, just some things are not pretty such as light gague material. A Millermatic 175 is a great little machine, you can dial it down for the small stuff or crank it up with fluxcore/dualshield for the heavy stuff. I have a small 220 mig at the house that i keep .030 solid wire in and it does all kinds of jobs in the garage when I dont feel like fireing up the Trailblazer. I say get the MIG and dont look back. Birken, good to get some of you guys from The Diesel Stop over here.

[MoonRise]

They each have their strengths and their weaknesses, and there is a good bit of overlapping capability between stick and small MIG/GMAW machines.

But doing thin-gauge sheet metal with stick where appearance of the finished weld and area is important? That's not really where stick welding is the best tool for the job, IMHO.

And cleanliness always makes for a better weld, so try to get the metal clean -before- you weld it. Some processes can tolerate (note that word, tolerate, not prefer, or need, or thrive, etc) differing levels of crud than others. Plain MIG/GMAW needs clean metal more than stick, but FCAW (flux core in a wire-feed machine) can tolerate some crud, depending on the electrode used.

For mostly thinner gauge stuff, go GMAW/FCAW wire feed.

Sheet metal with an oxy-acetylene rig? Some folks might be able to do that, but not too many.

Welding is just basically melting metal to get workpieces to become attached to one another. It's all the fussy details of -how- to do it that favor one process or another.

[Tailshaft56]

The 175 is a good choice. That said if you can afford it I would step up to the 210. The 210 will accept a spool gun plus you will have some extra power.

[Dan]

If your going to be welding a lot of 1/8" and thinner material, go with the wire unit over a stick unit. If you are planning on any light ga sheet metal welding most definitely go with the wire unit over a stick.

Now as far as which wire unit to get, hold on to your money for a few weeks to a month. The MM 175 is an OK unit, however, if you're willing to wait, there will be something else available shortly, that is superior too the MM 175- it isn't blue though.

[scoostraw]

Thanks guys. The input is most appreciated.

Dan, you can't leave us hanging like that. Out with it!!

[sstorkel]

If you're thinking about the MM175, you might want to dig up some of my old posts on the subject. I bought one, and it's a decent machine, but I find it a bit fiddly to get the settings right. Other, more experienced, welders don't seem to face the same problems so it may just be that I haven't spent enough time with the machine...

[drivesector]

The Hobart Handler 180 is Nice, cheaper and not as "fiddly" Also made by Miller.

[Steelwill]

I bought a mig first because it was easier, then a stick because I wanted to learn how to stick weld. I have noticed since I have been playing around with the stick welder my mig skills has been improving.

[canadianwelder1]

Working in the ship repair industry, I use both SMAW & FCAW on repairs. The steel being welded is quite often 30-50 years old. There are problems associated with each process, wire is faster & is the process used for production welding of these vessels. In my "free" time, I have a shop full of old cars/trucks which I am restoring. Because I am spread too thin in my many projects, I use my old Hobart(CC) portable for tacking/welding floorboard inserts, etc., but would go with wire, if/when I could afford to make the dollar outlay for a wire machine a priority. I would suggest, therefore, that if you already have a "stick" machine & don't want to spend on a wire machine, proceed with SMAW. If, however, you have neither, buy a "wire" machine. There are types of wire made for dirty metal and you should be cleaning the material to be welded anyway. For working on cars(gauge materials), wire takes much(MUCH) less skill than stick. A GMAW machine will allow you to repair non-ferrous metals(aluminum, for instance), as well. When refitting our provincial ferries, I spend some time working with the joiners, welding in thin gauge, with stick. This is the most hated job on the refits, not because the joiners are a bunch of jerks, but because most welders find it impossible not to blow through the metal with stick. I must admit, I am most likely to have these same challenges on a Monday, and I've been welding with SMAW for 32 years, since I was 11yrs. old.
Hope this helps.
Mike

[Robo48]

If it were me I would buy a 210 class wire machine and fhaghettaboutit

[scoostraw]

Originally Posted by sstorkel

If you're thinking about the MM175, you might want to dig up some of my old posts on the subject. I bought one, and it's a decent machine, but I find it a bit fiddly to get the settings right. Other, more experienced, welders don't seem to face the same problems so it may just be that I haven't spent enough time with the machine...

Yes I saw your posts about you liking the Lincoln over the Miller because you found the Red machine to be less "fiddly". I also saw others who did not have the same experience you have had. I'd be interested in seeing if others have more to say on this topic.

The dealer I talked with sells both, but they do not promote Lincoln. When I asked him why, he said they do not have as many problems with the Blue machines as they do with the Red.

[scoostraw]

Originally Posted by Tailshaft56

The 175 is a good choice. That said if you can afford it I would step up to the 210. The 210 will accept a spool gun plus you will have some extra power.

Thanks Dennis. I had always heard that you should pick the machine that you think will do what you need - and then buy the "next one up". So that's what I did - I sort of "picked out" the Millermatic 135, and then stepped it up to the 175.

Now you are telling me get the 210... This is one slippery slope!!!

[scoostraw]

Originally Posted by drivesector

The Hobart Handler 180 is Nice, cheaper and not as "fiddly" Also made by Miller.

Interesting. I was not aware that Miller produced the Hobart brand?

[drivesector]

Originally Posted by scoostraw

Interesting. I was not aware that Miller produced the Hobart brand?

Yes they do. also offer the same Warranty.