Is safety compliance the exception or the rule?

[Bob at WeldingMag]

Interesting article from our editorial team, picking up research presented at the recent National Safety Congress.

Bottom line -- probably of little surprise here at WeldingWeb -- is that everywhere you go, some people are going to resist safety precautions.

Here's the article:
http://www.americanmachinist.com/304...e/False/45824/

[zapster]

In all reality..

NO.

No I do not use saftey gear as often as I should..

Do I care?
No not really..
I've been machining and welding metal for 30 years now..

I'm just "set in my ways" I guess..

When its your turn for some pain..Its your turn..
Dont matter what you have on..or not..
Sorta like a seat belt in a vehicle..

You may have it on..
But you can still get hurt anyway..
And from my towing cars era..
Sometimes "saftey" belts are not your friend..

Trust me I know..
I watched a guy die in a car fire because the "saftey" belt would not disengage..
And by the time we got the snips out it was too late..

...zap!

[lotechman]

Safety policies have to be enforced from the top down. If there is no enforcement by management someone will cut corners.... It is human nature.
I worked in one shop years ago where ear plugs were supplied in a sporadic fashion then one day the hearing testing truck arrived. Regular hearing tests are mandatory in noisy industries. The next day we had our choice of muffs and plugs. The foreman had lost a signficant amount of his hearing.
I hate to say it but nothing works like a day's suspension for a violation.

[backuproller]

from the safety man to the owner safety is a must, we do safety meetings and all, butttttttt. when we get in the shop it's sorta a free for all. need something cut on the chopsaw, align the cut, start cut, look away when the sparks get heavy.

i wear some really cool shades that i get from airstar, i wear safety glasses when jet-skiing. these things are $1.75/pr. i mean i buy 20 pr at a time. always got 'em on, but still i got steel in my eye 2 weeks ago. like ZAP says, if it's your turn, it's your turn.

monday evening, the fuel truck driver came into the shop, his tank was leaking where someone had welded it before. well, ole boss man comes out and ask me if i can weld it. i tell him sure, if they drain it, rinse it with water and then drain and fill again. purge remaining tank and weld. well no sire "the last welder just purged the tank and went to welding with the fuel still in it." i just ok, call him and let him do it. when i walked out the shop yard, our trucking company welder was over there, feeding the exhaust from a diesel truck using flex pipe and welding away. i just shook my head and hoped like hell i made it out the lot before the big bang.

the man asking me to weld it, has been the shop foreman 12 years. i'm sure the safety man would have fell over dead with a coronary if he knew they were welding a 1500 gallon tank full of fuel.

[zapster]

The foreman had lost a signficant amount of his hearing.

And I'll bet he never played the drums either..

Going to zzzzzzzz with ringing in your ears is nothing new..

Burning yourself with hot metal is nothing new..

Slicing your fingers open with sharp metal chips from your work is nothing new..

Pulling your back out lifting metal is nothing new..

Run away hand tools is nothing new...

Saftey gear or not..
This is a dangerous profession..There is no two ways about it..

Just a little common sence goes along way..

Everyone get it now????

Laws and such can only do so much..

Common Sence on the other hand...


..zap!

[lotechman]

Injuries cost money and some employers just don`t get it. I talked to a compensation inspector years ago. It cost 28.50 Canadian to insure one man for one day falling trees in a logging operation. In Florida they were paying 100 U.S. per day to put one man on a roof shingling.
I worked in a shipyard where on average over a five year period twenty men were off on compensation at any one time. The yard had finally realized where all the profit was going.

[Mitch Kelly]

Quoting Zap (again...)

"Saftey gear or not..
This is a dangerous profession..There is no two ways about it..

Just a little common sence goes along way.."

This is just it. For too many people personal protective equipment (PPE) is an excuse for being careless, stupid or doing stuff they don't know how to do properly.

Our lab. safety regulations place PPE as THE LAST LINE OF DEFENCE. Your protection comes from having the right equipment, using it properly, in decent surroundings, knowing what you are doing, thinking and applying care and common sense. THAT LIST is what protects you most of the time. PPE is there to catch the "leakers".

As for compliance, Lotechman has it: the carrot never works, only the stick. Suspension or a good bollocking is the ONLY way some people get the message.

M

[enlpck]

First heard this in trade school, and it was old then:

You can walk on a wooden leg, you can chew with false teeth,
but you can't see with a glass eye.

<engage rant>

The best enforcement is education, and that, unfortunately, comes with the cost of the lessons. A shipyard with 20 out at a time? WHY? That is truly ridiculous. What are people doing in this situation to take an inherently hazardous circumstance and make it outright deadly? I can't honestly think of an injury I have ever got at work where it wasn't 100% my fault. Most of them were cases where I elected to do something without all precautions that were available. I haven't had many injuries (This includes one deemed an act of god, and another deemed the fauly of a co-worker--- He was the trigger, not the cause) and none have been much more than annoying (metal in eye, broken finger, cuts from swarf or a gringer, etc) but any of them COULD have been.

When you watch a coworker come in short two fingers, you pay a lot more attention to the setup and gaurds on the table saw, both when to use them, and when not to. Yes, the gaurds can make some setup MORE dangerous.

Ditto for haveing a metal splinter removed from the eye. You learn to wear the glasses and a grinding shield.

<rant off>

If anyone can find it, hunt down the film "shake hands with danger" from Cat in the mid 70's... makes a point well.

[Bob at WeldingMag]

I agree with the sentiment that it comes from the top. The boss ought to set reasonable safety guidelines, provide the equipment to comply with them, and have an issue with anyone who doesn't follow them consistently.

Only one part of that costs money. The rest is just a matter of deciding that, "Hey, I refuse to let anyone get hurt here."

And it's not just about short-term injuries; it's also about long-term health.

Sure, welding is a job that carries risk. Everyone in it knows that, and assumes responsibilty for the risk. But the employer assumes responsibility for not letting anyone take any undue risk.

[RichardWDF]

What do you guys feel about the supply shops taking a stance for safety? Not so much like the bartenders who get sued because a customer drank too much and hit-and-ran after leaving the stool, but more along the lines of special safety equipment displays in the stores, advisory pamphlets, that sort of thing. Would people be more inclined to pay attention?

[enlpck]

I don't know that the average customer in the welding ahop is really looking at the displays, to be honest. I know that I don't, and I don't see a lot of people looking in the shops I go to. 80, 90% of the customers go right to the counter. Those looking for something on the shelf usually seem to ask where it is.

Point-of-sale displays might help, and gruesome pictures sure get a lot of interest (like pics of cars after someone carried an unsecured acetylene tank in the trunk during the summer), but I don't know how much that helps with the guy that has been working in the shop for 20 years and already has bad habits. Ya, I'm cynical.

I spend a lot of time at work focused on safety enforcement (state and fed rules, as well as our own) and some people just don't get it. I CONSTANTLY ask people where they 'learned' certain practices, and most of the time, they say 'I always did it this way' or I didn't think it would be a problem. Sometimes they come out with truly lame excuses. The worst are 'the rules don't apply to me' people, and the mis-managers that enable and/or participate in the behaviour.

Certainly won't hurt to get better displays out there, and might make it easier for people to get the right equipment. I would really like to see fit guides for breathers. Most of the shop employees don't have the experience to help with fit, and it can be a two person job, as well as a decent chart comparing the various types and their proper uses. I'v watched a lot of guys weld using chemical rated charcoal cans not rated for particulate, and wonder why the thing get so hard to breathe through.

[wello]

Originally Posted by RichardWDF

What do you guys feel about the supply shops taking a stance for safety? Not so much like the bartenders who get sued because a customer drank too much and hit-and-ran after leaving the stool, but more along the lines of special safety equipment displays in the stores, advisory pamphlets, that sort of thing. Would people be more inclined to pay attention?

I don't know about most people but when I go to the supply I'm going to get what i need I only browse around if its busy other wise I'm in and out as quick as I can

[woodironman]

I'm not always safe but, I try to keep in mind that I've got 6 boys and a wife that depend on me for everything they need. So like Zap said about common sense, use a little and it will go a long ways.

[tapwelder]

"common sense"

To me it seems "common sense" to put oil on a nut to get maximum torque. A nut like the one on your oxygen regulator. After tighter is better.

Closing eyes protect you from uv rays, too. Yeah right.

I used to watch a guy mig weld with sunglasses on. Did it for years with no apparent problems. Still recommend it.

Any other common sense myths?

I do a lot to stay safe, though I am sure there is more I could do. I haven't always so, however I do have people depending on me, also.

[zapster]

A nut like the one on your oxygen regulator. After tighter is better.

Oh boy!!
Here we go.....



...zap!

[lotechman]

Originally Posted by RichardWDF

What do you guys feel about the supply shops taking a stance for safety? Not so much like the bartenders who get sued because a customer drank too much and hit-and-ran after leaving the stool, but more along the lines of special safety equipment displays in the stores, advisory pamphlets, that sort of thing. Would people be more inclined to pay attention?

Its a nice thought but for some reason sex and macho sells better. I wear regular glasses so I gave those nice Jackson complimentary safety glasses to a workmate, under 30. He not only found them comfortable but they looked COOL! Younger guys don't like things if they don't look cool.
I am the older generation and I would have been teased and ridiculed if I in my youth, had tricked up my helmet like the younger generations does. If the safety gear is fashionable they love wearing it. If it is drab gray, square and heavy they shun it.
Dollars to doughnuts show some macho guy wearing some cool safety glass shades in front of a display and the glasses will sell like hotcakes. Show a display giving all the safety data and some lab equipment testing the lense surface and your display and glasses will collect dust.
Tegaskiss was always a good gun but it took off once they changed and called it "Toughgun"!

[TEK]

[quote=lotechman] If the safety gear is fashionable they love wearing it. If it is drab gray, square and heavy they shun it.

Good point. My son in law, when he was stationed at Ft. Irwin, used to call the safety glasses " birth control devices, cuz ya never get laid if you wear 'em"

[enlpck]

[quote=TEK]

Originally Posted by lotechman

Good point. My son in law, when he was stationed at Ft. Irwin, used to call the safety glasses " birth control devices, cuz ya never get laid if you wear 'em"

I need to remember that

[zapster]

Lotech did not post that..
TEK Did..

...zap!

[Mitch Kelly]

I get students around the lab who won't wear safety glasses. Nice glasses help - the narrow "low drag" ones with amber lenses go well. This improves compliance significantly (per experiences above).

Another thing that works:
Student "But I'll look like a gimp in these!"
Me "So imagine how much of a gimp you'll look in an eyepatch..."

As for nice safety glasses, spare a thought for those of us who have prescription lenses: the choices I can get look like they were rejected by Roy Orbison or Jim Phelps from the original Mission: Impossible! But I wear 'em anyway.

M

[TozziWelding]

Originally Posted by zapster

And I'll bet he never played the drums either..

Going to zzzzzzzz with ringing in your ears is nothing new..

Burning yourself with hot metal is nothing new..

Slicing your fingers open with sharp metal chips from your work is nothing new..

Pulling your back out lifting metal is nothing new..

Run away hand tools is nothing new...

Saftey gear or not..
This is a dangerous profession..There is no two ways about it..

Just a little common sence goes along way..

Everyone get it now????

Laws and such can only do so much..

Common Sence on the other hand...


..zap!

I go to bed ringing, but now I wear hearing protection, not gonna fix my tinniutis(sp check).
I tried no safety glasses, but a nice med bill later(piece of grinding wheel lodged in my eye) I now wear them
Gloves are a hell of alot more dangerous than bare hands machining. I would rather have a cut than no hand.
There is no avoiding burns period.
We work in a dangerous enviroment, either accept it or fear it. Fear is bad.
We can try and tell those that will listen or preach upon deaf ears.

[lewray]

Yeah I suffer from the "ringing in the ears syndrome" I wear hearing devices at night called maskers. My thing was caused by a vehicle accident a few years ago and I use hearing protection religously now as a result.

Its no fun having this and I could go on and on with this topic; however, thus far I have tried my best not to let it keep me from the shop. They say long term periods without hearing protection can cause this ..... I cant imagine someone not trying to prevent it.