PDA

View Full Version : man not again



92f150300six
04-30-2009, 12:05 AM
ok awhile back i bent my liner. not a big deal replased it and at the same time put a new spool of wire in.well now that my spool is allmost empty my hh140 is having feed problems.well a buddy told me to swap out the wire to make sure for som reason thats not whats wrong. so i did and bam it works again. well again i get the end of the roal and it wont feed. u can keep the gun straight and still no feed. ive tried backing off the spring for the roal of wire no help. played with the tenchin on the feeder no luck.iwhat could be wrong. its only not feeding when my spool is low on wire. any guess

duaneb55
04-30-2009, 12:21 AM
:confused: Try cleaning the liner? I use Brake-Kleen but make sure it's dry (blow it out with air) before trying to weld again as Brake-Kleen is flammable.

Is the wire 'oily' toward the end of the roll?

Are the drive rolls clean and free of oil and grease?

You don't use one of those felt wire lubricators do you?

Just thinking out loud.

Dan
04-30-2009, 01:36 AM
As the roll depletes, along with reducing the spool hub tension you may need to increase the drive roll spring tension.

You didn't mention whether you're running solid wire or fluxcore. No matter, you might think about giving what I do with my HH 187 a try; which, is run the knurled V grooved drive roll for solid or fluxcore wire. I run very light drive roll pressure on solid wire.

I mostly run .030 or .035 wire. If your running .023 the knurled drive roll won't work.

hillco
04-30-2009, 01:39 AM
I've had a couple rolls of wire that were not wound well, and grabbed on themselves (wire overlapping wire) down towards the end, but if I let them go slack when removing, one of them at least corrected itself, another did not.. I cannot recall the brands, but they were major ones. I started using Pinnacle, and have not had any more problems. Try switching brands.

92f150300six
04-30-2009, 01:55 AM
:confused: Try cleaning the liner? I use Brake-Kleen but make sure it's dry (blow it out with air) before trying to weld again as Brake-Kleen is flammable.

Is the wire 'oily' toward the end of the roll?

Are the drive rolls clean and free of oil and grease?

You don't use one of those felt wire lubricators do you?

Just thinking out loud.

i will try cleaning it. no wire doest seem oily. drive rolls are clean. and no

92f150300six
04-30-2009, 01:57 AM
As the roll depletes, along with reducing the spool hub tension you may need to increase the drive roll spring tension.

You didn't mention whether you're running solid wire or fluxcore. No matter, you might think about giving what I do with my HH 187 a try; which, is run the knurled V grooved drive roll for solid or fluxcore wire. I run very light drive roll pressure on solid wire.

I mostly run .030 or .035 wire. If your running .023 the knurled drive roll won't work.

.035 fluxcore.where did u get your knurled drive roll?

92f150300six
04-30-2009, 02:01 AM
I've had a couple rolls of wire that were not wound well, and grabbed on themselves (wire overlapping wire) down towards the end, but if I let them go slack when removing, one of them at least corrected itself, another did not.. I cannot recall the brands, but they were major ones. I started using Pinnacle, and have not had any more problems. Try switching brands.
wire isn over laped. but may try diffrent brand. i also changed out my tip just to make sure that its not bad with no luck. i also took the tip and drilled the hole out and still no luck

Dan
04-30-2009, 02:02 AM
.035 fluxcore.where did u get your knurled drive roll?

.035 fluxcore, I definitely recommend switching to the knurled V groove drive roll. I purchased mine through the local Airgas that i deal with.

Here's a dependable On-line dealer I've purchased supplies from multiple times.

http://store.cyberweld.com/midrro0flcow.html

92f150300six
04-30-2009, 02:34 AM
thanks dan im going to give one a try

Cruizer
04-30-2009, 05:49 PM
Does the wire feed fine when not welding, does it slip right away when you curl it in the palm of your hand? If so then you definately need a knurlded drive roller, if not then go to a 038 or 040 tip made for aluminum. The wire may be expanding faster than the tip and jamming.

19662
04-30-2009, 06:19 PM
[QUOTE=duaneb55;277582]:

You don't use one of those felt wire lubricators do you?



Just wondering why you would ask that duanne55

MoonRise
04-30-2009, 06:21 PM
End of the roll and not feeding right?

Just replace the roll. Those last few feet don't always feed off the roll worth a darn.

Think of it as the roll equivalent of a stub when stick welding.

Dan
04-30-2009, 06:29 PM
Does the wire feed fine when not welding, does it slip right away when you curl it in the palm of your hand? If so then you definately need a knurlded drive roller, if not then go to a 038 or 040 tip made for aluminum. The wire may be expanding faster than the tip and jamming.


Cruizer,

With an .030 or .035 wire and the smooth V groove drive roll installed you can pinch the wire between two fingers and stop the wire from feeding. This is with a healthy amount of drive roll spring tension too. The wire drive motor doesn't stop.

With the knurled drive roll installed and with the drive roll spring tension set lighter you can't stop the wire from feeding by pinching it between your fingers. I suppose if someone tried hard enough they could.:D

One thing I've noticed about the H-10, M-10, H-14, that Hobart supplies with their Handler 140 - 210 and Miller supplies with their Millermatic 140 - 211 is that there is a healthy amount of drag on the wire in the neck region of the gun

I suspect you already understand, if you have to use a high level of drive roll spring tension, with fluxcore wire, there is a good chance that the wire will be deformed (crushed) , and have issue feeding properly through the contact tip.

Billy
05-01-2009, 05:51 AM
Check your drive roll on the motor shaft, try moving it up and down, you may have some "play" there and when you tighten the pressure arm it is only forcing the motor shaft down
Watch it as you feed it that is not driving "downhill".

Motor may have dropped a tad as well

The wire must be parallel to the input and output sides of the feed system.

Good way to tell is if you feed wire it should exit the tip basically straight, if it exits with large "curls" then there is a problem.

Also check your wire with your fingers, lightly drag over the wire with fingers for any deformity BEFORE you feed it

Dont EVER use a knurled roller, totally unnecessary, all they do is deform the wire and clog your liner and they give problems in the contact tip while welding.

If you want to try a different roller try a "U" groove, normally used for ally but they work well on other wires

Knurled rollers should be banned

Would not bother cleaning liner, would just replace it

Billy

Plasman
05-01-2009, 08:22 AM
Because of the smaller diameter of the spool at the end of a spool, there is alot of cast left in the wire as it is fed into the liner. This causes the wire to snake through the liner with excessive friction. Knurled drive rolls would help to push the wire through the gun, but donot over tighten the knurled rollers as it will create metal filings that will be pulled into the liner and plug it up also.

farmersamm
05-01-2009, 10:31 AM
Hobart doesn't have a real robust feed system. I know, I got one. Knurled wheels help

On my HH140 I cut off about 1/3 of the spring that tensions the wire roll. After the roll got halfway finished it wouldn't feed for crap. Clean liner, proper drive tension, etc.

The tension on the roll should be JUST sufficient to keep it from bird nesting. The factory spring simply is too strong/long on mine, so the snip job was in order. Haven't had trouble since. You can still tighten it if you want, but it allows for greater backoff. If the threads on the adjustment bolt were longer this would not be necessary

92f150300six
05-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Cruizer,

With an .030 or .035 wire and the smooth V groove drive roll installed you can pinch the wire between two fingers and stop the wire from feeding. This is with a healthy amount of drive roll spring tension too. The wire drive motor doesn't stop.

With the knurled drive roll installed and with the drive roll spring tension set lighter you can't stop the wire from feeding by pinching it between your fingers. I suppose if someone tried hard enough they could.:D

One thing I've noticed about the H-10, M-10, H-14, that Hobart supplies with their Handler 140 - 210 and Miller supplies with their Millermatic 140 - 211 is that there is a healthy amount of drag on the wire in the neck region of the gun

I suspect you already understand, if you have to use a high level of drive roll spring tension, with fluxcore wire, there is a good chance that the wire will be deformed (crushed) , and have issue feeding properly through the contact tip. dan u couldnt be more on the money right when the wire hits the neck u can hear it slow way down and i also have high tension. i order a knurled drive rol last night and a new linner just in case. i also swaped in a brand new spool and it doesnt feed also .can a drive roll wear out

92f150300six
05-01-2009, 04:59 PM
Hobart doesn't have a real robust feed system. I know, I got one. Knurled wheels help

On my HH140 I cut off about 1/3 of the spring that tensions the wire roll. After the roll got halfway finished it wouldn't feed for crap. Clean liner, proper drive tension, etc.

The tension on the roll should be JUST sufficient to keep it from bird nesting. The factory spring simply is too strong/long on mine, so the snip job was in order. Haven't had trouble since. You can still tighten it if you want, but it allows for greater backoff. If the threads on the adjustment bolt were longer this would not be necessary
farmer im going to try that also i know mines not tight but i hate how long that spring is

92f150300six
05-01-2009, 05:01 PM
Because of the smaller diameter of the spool at the end of a spool, there is alot of cast left in the wire as it is fed into the liner. This causes the wire to snake through the liner with excessive friction. Knurled drive rolls would help to push the wire through the gun, but donot over tighten the knurled rollers as it will create metal filings that will be pulled into the liner and plug it up also.
thanks for that info i will watch out for that

92f150300six
05-01-2009, 05:09 PM
Does the wire feed fine when not welding, does it slip right away when you curl it in the palm of your hand? If so then you definately need a knurlded drive roller, if not then go to a 038 or 040 tip made for aluminum. The wire may be expanding faster than the tip and jamming.

the wire doesnt like to feed at all wheather your welding or not

Dan
05-01-2009, 05:54 PM
dan u couldnt be more on the money right when the wire hits the neck u can hear it slow way down and i also have high tension. i order a knurled drive rol last night and a new linner just in case. i also swaped in a brand new spool and it doesnt feed also .can a drive roll wear out


Before you lower the pressure roller onto the drive roll, make certain the wire lines up with the proper V groove for the diameter of wire you have installed on the unit. I've noticed the drive roll shaft on the smaller Hobart and Miller units has a little end play. You may need to manually line the groove up .

Over a long time period, the groove on a drive roll will wear out. I doubt the V groove is worn on your HH 140. Personally, I 've always felt the .030/.035 smooth V groove on the Hobart/Miller drive roll is a little under sized.

Once you install the knurled drive roll, there will be a big difference in how well the unit feeds wire. Just remember to use the lightest amount of drive roll pressure required to feed the wire properly.

Does your new roll feed fine with the contact tip removed?

Sandy
05-01-2009, 09:02 PM
On the M-10 guns it is easy to have the liner not inserted/lined up right at the gas diffuser or tip adapter. There's a small pocket in the diffuser where the liner should set in to to keep it lined up neatly with the tip itself. If the liner is just shy of that by a zillionth and/or it sets cocked off to the side further back in the diffuser then you'll have those off and on problems. Take the tip out and look in there to see that the liner is really lined up straight and true even while the gun cable is moved in differing configurations. The liner should be long enough to be held in that little socket by pressure even when the cable is coiled, straightened and moved around.

duaneb55
05-01-2009, 10:19 PM
[QUOTE=duaneb55;277582]:

You don't use one of those felt wire lubricators do you?

Just wondering why you would ask that duanne55


More of a concern with external wire feeders than enclosed ones 19662 but. . .

lube on the wire = lube on the drive rolls = pick up dust and particles = transfer of crude to wire = dirty liner. As for just keeping the wire clean - foam ear plugs. Stick the wire through one and let it run up against the wire guide.

I figure if welder manufacturers thought their gun liners needed lubrication they would have equipped the welder with a wire lubricator from the start. Just my opinion.:drinkup:

Tony D
05-01-2009, 10:58 PM
Just changing back to solid wire my HH180 wouldn't feed out all the way... it stopped at the gun almost and I messed with it turning twisting and assisting ,pushing it into liner smacking hose on bench and ground and finally....
a damn piece of wire about an inch long came out and then the wire itself started ....

How the little wire got in there I don't know? but it was feeding great till changing I thought it rubbed the liner in but it was a lil piece of junk so there must be a little room in there to wedge stuff.....

and my gun catches the end sometimes when the wire is curled and not straightened first maybe file the end so it don't catch so bad or hand feed if possible... when I couldn't get it in backwards from the gun end I knew something was screwed up ..so it could be all the above just keep trying or get another it may just be screwed up :dizzy:

92f150300six
05-01-2009, 11:00 PM
Before you lower the pressure roller onto the drive roll, make certain the wire lines up with the proper V groove for the diameter of wire you have installed on the unit. I've noticed the drive roll shaft on the smaller Hobart and Miller units has a little end play. You may need to manually line the groove up .

Over a long time period, the groove on a drive roll will wear out. I doubt the V groove is worn on your HH 140. Personally, I 've always felt the .030/.035 smooth V groove on the Hobart/Miller drive roll is a little under sized.

Once you install the knurled drive roll, there will be a big difference in how well the unit feeds wire. Just remember to use the lightest amount of drive roll pressure required to feed the wire properly.

Does your new roll feed fine with the contact tip removed?
dan i havent got the new one yet its in the mail

farmersamm
05-02-2009, 10:26 AM
[quote=19662;277773]


More of a concern with external wire feeders than enclosed ones 19662 but. . .

lube on the wire = lube on the drive rolls = pick up dust and particles = transfer of crude to wire = dirty liner. As for just keeping the wire clean - foam ear plugs. Stick the wire through one and let it run up against the wire guide.

I figure if welder manufacturers thought their gun liners needed lubrication they would have equipped the welder with a wire lubricator from the start. Just my opinion.:drinkup:

Pretty much my sentiments. Plus there's a certain amount of lube already on the wire straight out of the factory

All I ever have to do is to take the liner off the machine, and blow it out with compressed air from the gun end. Amazing how much crud comes out. I think a lot of it would stay in the liner if you added oil to the mix

92f150300six
05-02-2009, 11:15 AM
:cry:well its a sad day for me and all the welder across the world. my parts came in and ther wrong well one is .insted of a drive roll i got a plasma air filter:cry:

farmersamm
05-02-2009, 05:55 PM
That sucks

92f150300six
05-04-2009, 12:04 AM
yes it does but on the up side its working again. pulled it all apart and cleaned the old linner out and bam. she back up and weldeing.so i keeping the new linner and when the new drive roll comes in i will put that in.its crazy how much stuff can get in that linner