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Fickster
03-28-2016, 04:17 PM
I planning on building a 60x100x16 building for house shop canopy.

The living quaters will be 60x20 2 story tall

Shop will be 60x40x16
Canopy will be 60x40x16
3:12 pitch

I'm really am leaning on red iron frame n material
And shop will have white tin inside to control light of the welding and fire control
Thought bout having a concrete colum of 18 inches

Propose of the building is a house and work area of the agiculture and agiculture trucking

What's is best quality on frame. Wood or red iron?

Will it be worth it to have anchors put in the slab incase I need to straighten something out to.hold it down. Also plan on havin a overhead crane one a section of shop

I do alot of big *** project the heavier n bigger the happier I can get

If you guys have a dream idea or shop let hear it

DSW
03-28-2016, 05:52 PM
Radiant floor is great if you live in an area that is cold. In a large slab it might pay to run conduit and floor boxes in the slab so you can provide power to stationary tools like grinders, saws etc not along the walls without having to drape cords all over the place. You can stub up the conduit at the walls and then pull to the boxes later if you need to.

Fickster
03-28-2016, 06:18 PM
I found a boiler that is propane powered n a unit that can be run off outdoor wood furnace or propane as a backup

It will be built in central Missouri. Really want it to effient as possible

I've never heard of runnin electric throu the slab before. I was thinking bout runing electric through the galvanized tubed on the sheet tin walls along with air pipe also

Bob
03-28-2016, 09:29 PM
would think it would be much cheaper to go with steel rather than with wood. Besides, it won't rot, bugs can't eat it and it won't burn.

Besides the electrical in the slab, if you can determine where the welding table will be, put a ground lead in the slab as well. I have my electrical wire for the table plugs and the ground wire in the slab and it works a treat. The ground goes to the metal building and back to the table. I have a ground outside that is hooked to the building as well and makes it great for those jobs you do out side.

Fickster
03-29-2016, 05:36 AM
Are you referring the 120 electric ground or a big heavy welding cable for ground. I'm a little confused on what you guys are trying to say

tinker001
03-30-2016, 02:24 PM
I would agree with stub out a few power outlet and air line down the middle of the slab or maybe inset some runs in the floor even if you don't use them right away. Would do the radiant floor heating with zones. Keeping the floor at 45 or 50 degrees can make a big difference in comfort for working. This could also be done with solar, gas or wood heating system. Just insulate under the slab and isolate from the outside foundation. I would also suggest the isolate between the shop floor and the living area. would hate to see the other half be grumpy with the vibration of the shop floor.

DSW
03-30-2016, 02:45 PM
A number of the radiant floors we poured simply used a standard hot water heater and a pump to supply the hot water needed for the heat.

If you do decide to do radiant flooring, take good pictures and measurements of where they put the tubing at. Typically they tie it to 6x6 mesh at 12" intervals, so all you really need to do is do a drawing and measure from forms or fixed points like columns. That way should you later need to drill the slab for something, you know where the tubes run. Tubes are typically left at the bottom of a 6" slab in shop settings, so you still have plenty of room over the tube to drill as long as you don't drill too deep. They can leave the tube out of areas where you know you will have to drill to mount heavy equipment, lifts etc. You just lay out where the stuff has to be mounted and they just avoid those ares when running tube.

thegary
03-30-2016, 06:14 PM
I would go with a steel frame for sure. you are doing a nice size shop. My neighbor just built something similar last year. He has a living area upstairs that is 40 x30 and the shop is 40 x80 with 14ft walls. He did a wood frame but it was expensive because of the second floor living area. I would go steel just for the fire protection.

Fickster
04-06-2016, 10:08 AM
Ok you guys sure have several good ideas. I'll definitely look into putting electric n air lines through the slab n what not. Thank you all

Ky farmer
04-06-2016, 11:59 AM
I would have to give a lot of thought to house and shop under same roof. No matter how tight you seal it I grant you dust smoke and noise will still get in the house. Just my 2 cents worth. Mike

Fickster
04-14-2016, 11:06 AM
Ky farmer. I've though bout that alot n hard. I wonder i put living quaters on one side and shop on the other side and making the middle part canopy???

akpolaris
04-14-2016, 12:05 PM
Place some beams in the floor at the level of the slab. tie them together and you can then use them as common ground points. You can also use them as pulling points when necessary to straighten jobs. Also to secure temporary anchors or build support legs for fabricating different projects.

MNREAPER
04-14-2016, 01:13 PM
If you spray foamed it, or even just thhe living quarters, and drew heat and air out of the shop side... I would think that would be enough vaccum so to speak to keep that **** out of the house... Spray foam should keep noise to a minimum as well


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Fickster
04-17-2016, 04:34 PM
Place some beams in the floor at the level of the slab. tie them together and you can then use them as common ground points. You can also use them as pulling points when necessary to straighten jobs. Also to secure temporary anchors or build support legs for fabricating different projects.

I thought bout having an anchor in the slab n have it covered with a floor plate. But if I use beams n weld a big n heavy d rings on em wouldn't the be a lil Hazzard of some kind trip etc??

Fickster
04-17-2016, 04:36 PM
Place some beams in the floor at the level of the slab. tie them together and you can then use them as common ground points. You can also use them as pulling points when necessary to straighten jobs. Also to secure temporary anchors or build support legs for fabricating different projects.


If you spray foamed it, or even just thhe living quarters, and drew heat and air out of the shop side... I would think that would be enough vaccum so to speak to keep that **** out of the house... Spray foam should keep noise to a minimum as well


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Your saying just spray foam the entire wall between the shop n living quaters? ?
That stuff anit cheap. I think it runs 2.50 per Sq foot

Boostinjdm
04-17-2016, 05:48 PM
I would not want a shop and home under one roof. Too many risks.

Sprayfoam is expensive, but it's a one time purchase that will pay for itself in fuel savings and comfort pretty quickly.

Welder Dave
04-23-2016, 01:57 AM
I think a welding shop under the same roof as living quarters is just asking for headaches. I'd bet your insurance would be a lot higher and you'll never keep all the smoke and dirt out of the living side.

Jimmy_pop
04-23-2016, 11:02 AM
My shop someday will be a combination of these places. I am at 4000' elevation and the weather is damn near perfect. I can use alot of covered outdoor spaces for dirty grinding, plasma cutting, eventual waterjet, washing equipment, truck, trailers, RZRs, overhead gantry, crating/shipping jobs ETC. The enclosed spaces could be less square footage to house the fixture table, press brake, shear, cold saw, ETC. My living quarters would be separate but probably on the same slab in 2-3 40' HC containers. Having my shop under a shaded structure will keep my already minimal utilities even cheaper.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Jimmy-pop/IMG_20150201_074755.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Jimmy-pop/media/IMG_20150201_074755.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Jimmy-pop/Screen%20Shot%202016-04-23%20at%207.52.39%20AM.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Jimmy-pop/media/Screen%20Shot%202016-04-23%20at%207.52.39%20AM.png.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Jimmy-pop/Screen%20Shot%202016-04-23%20at%207.51.07%20AM.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Jimmy-pop/media/Screen%20Shot%202016-04-23%20at%207.51.07%20AM.png.html)

Baloo2327
04-23-2016, 11:19 AM
Separating the shop and the home with the canopy in between will eliminate the problem of the dust, and making the structure out of steel, and covering with metal will eliminate the fire problem, which should make the insurance company happy.

In my industry HVAC, everyone talks about efficiency which is important, but good insulation is the most important. Spray foam will pay for itself quicker then most people think, especially if the equipment is properly sized accordingly. Insulation is permanent so do it right the first time. Second, make sure anything buried in the walls and floor and ceiling need to be done right the first time as well.

bent
04-23-2016, 02:02 PM
I would not do a shouse. Period. If you are a bachelor and its a hobby shop it might be ok as long as you wish to continue to be a bachelor. A working shop, or even worse, a working shop and a significant other, (and then kids or grands) is terrible imho. There is no way to keep the fumes, dust, and grit out of the house. I also have a two story house, and don't plan on ever having another one. As I get older I realize how bad stairs suck.

If you absolute have to do it for some reason, I would make the house a single story as a lean-to on the shop. When you need to change your living quarters for some reason, the house portion could be stripped and used as shop space.

Enough about the house aspect, on to the shop.

You mention agricultural equipment. It gets larger every year. You can't build a usable shop for today's equipment. You have to build the shop for the equipment you expect to have 10 years from now. I don't know what you do, but a 16' eve seems to short.

Make sure you select a contractor who can get the concrete right. Its the second most important thing, right after site selection (both location and grade height). Concrete waits for no man. Make certain you choose someone who has been around a while, and check on his work from years before now. Concrete has two guarantees, it gets hard and it cracks. Finish, workmanship, and flatness are up to the contractor.

Don't put electric in the slab. Put plastic conduit under the slab in the subgrade before they put in the sand. Mine are trenched 6" deep in the subgrade, and backfilled with sand. I have dual main panels (240+480), as well as dual subpanels in two locations. I do not have to run big power over any overhead doors.

You mention overhead cranes. That is a big money thing that eats headroom stupid fast. For a 16' eve, you would be lucky to get 11' under hook. The cheapest way to get an overhead hoist is to spec the main upright supports for a jib crane. Upgrading the main supports is cheap, and then you can add the jib when finances allow. I think it cost me about $1,200 each to upgrade some of the supports to handle a 20' jib with a 2 ton capacity.

Air in the subgrade will always be wet. Run your airlines in the walls where you can slope and drain them.

Only put 3 1/2" insulation under the sheeting. For extra insulation use simple saver. It fills the girts out flush and adds a second vapor barrier.

I only have 8' of tin inside. The rest is plastic vapor barrier, as well as the ceiling. Full steel inside echos very badly. Lay out your areas before hand. I have 3/4 plywood behind the tin for hanging things like electric panel boxes. The back of the workbench is 3/4 + 1/2 plywood, painted white.

Put lots of windows on the south, both high and low. My south door, (large) has extra window panels above the 5' panel.

The building may be fire resistant construction, but the fuel in the tank of something you are working on is enough to burn even a steel building down. Most ag equipment today has plastic fuel tanks.

Fickster
04-24-2016, 06:34 PM
Very good tips. I'm grateful for you guys

It a cow calf operation we don't do row crop. So making our equipment can fit in n out of the shop easily.

I may not do the overhead crane because I know I will not use it much plus there a boom truck down the road if I need a lift.

I've personally decided not to run anything in the slab but an anchor all the air n elec lines will be on the wall starting back of shop in the center wrapping around towards the front air and electronic.

I will consider the lean tube house 1 level only option on the side of the building.

Yes you guys figured out I'm a bachelor. I only doin this because it's a tax break for 45 years. And I had my account double check it.

I do have plans drawn up shop and lq area. I'll try to post them on up soon if you guys want to see it and still like to hear the ideas n opnion

I do have a quote of 32,000 of the building erected concrete not included so I'm going to push it sooner than. I thought I would.

DSW
04-24-2016, 07:56 PM
Concrete has two guarantees, it gets hard and it cracks.

We used to say that too. Then we had a job where the concrete didn't set. Poured on Monday morning, dug it out with shovels on Friday afternoon. Turns out the plant had an "oops" and put in WAY too much retarder. Something like 100 times more than they should have. They told us that they put in 3 times what we ordered when temps are around 100 in the summer and the crew can come back the next day and put the final finish on stuff like road work. I could still trowel up a nice cream on the surface when we dug it all out. Concrete company admitted the mistake and covered all the costs on the job both for the original pour and the repour.

bent
04-24-2016, 09:00 PM
Yes you guys figured out I'm a bachelor. I only doin this because it's a tax break for 45 years. And I had my account double check it.



But do you always plan to be a bachelor?

You may need a new accountant. Multi-purpose ag buildings are a 20 year depreciation class. They qualify for the 50% bonus depreciation, so you can write off 1/2 the cost of the building the first year even if it causes a loss. Then from the loss you get a 5 year loss carry back if you had profits during those years. Then any remaining losses qualify for a 20 year carry forward. All this assuming you file a schedule F.

bent
04-24-2016, 09:02 PM
We used to say that too. Then we had a job where the concrete didn't set. Poured on Monday morning, dug it out with shovels on Friday afternoon. Turns out the plant had an "oops" and put in WAY too much retarder. Something like 100 times more than they should have. They told us that they put in 3 times what we ordered when temps are around 100 in the summer and the crew can come back the next day and put the final finish on stuff like road work. I could still trowel up a nice cream on the surface when we dug it all out. Concrete company admitted the mistake and covered all the costs on the job both for the original pour and the repour.

Dang! That had to suck.

Fickster
04-24-2016, 11:08 PM
But do you always plan to be a bachelor?

You may need a new accountant. Multi-purpose ag buildings are a 20 year depreciation class. They qualify for the 50% bonus depreciation, so you can write off 1/2 the cost of the building the first year even if it causes a loss. Then from the loss you get a 5 year loss carry back if you had profits during those years. Then any remaining losses qualify for a 20 year carry forward. All this assuming you file a schedule F.

The way my life is goin yea probably gonna be a bachelor for a long time

I will do more checkin on the tax deal. He done my taxes every scince I turned 18 n been very lucky not having to pay much due me.being self employed n all my forms are 1099.

I have decided to build building n put a lean to on living quaters forget the upper level n no doors from shop to living quaters you have to go outside to get in between.

I know concrete is gonna be a pain n the *** but I'm gonna definitely want to have rerod and wire in the slab and footing n wall and will have bout a foot of lime compacted before the slab being poured unless where I do the dirt work n it's may not be to far down to solid rock consider it's in central Missouri

Fickster
04-24-2016, 11:26 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/dffd02faed46dbd6008de4931688a158.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/490ec65eb3346b5a67ac142ae17cdb1c.jpg

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Fickster
04-24-2016, 11:28 PM
That's what I've got drawn up so far. Prob changes things around in living quaters take stairs out n put furnace n hot water in the room with washer n dryer n take that extra bathroom out

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tinker001
04-25-2016, 12:44 AM
Why not use the area under the stairs for the washer, dryer and hot water heater it's wasted space any way for the most part.

Fickster
04-25-2016, 08:13 AM
Why not use the area under the stairs for the washer, dryer and hot water heater it's wasted space any way for the most part.
No stairs. Not doin a upper level. Just goin to be a lean to on the side of the building


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tinker001
04-25-2016, 09:12 AM
I would add extra door(s) to the other bay Just to move things in and out on that side. would also add a roll up even if it was a standard size garage door. on the opposite from the big garage doors for air flow.

Fickster
04-28-2016, 10:35 AM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160428/b81901e68a9f070e83677c3f4f88f33e.jpg
Just the walls only. Shaded are walls. N clear is doors on left sife and no walls on right side just a roof

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bent
04-28-2016, 10:43 PM
Have you considered a canopy on the left end and putting a mobile home under it? Somebody else does the build out that way and its removeable.

Not much room for cross bracing in the wall shown.

Will you put insulation under the tin on the canopy? It won't cost much, and will allow you to enclose the building later with better results.

The price you mentioned in an earlier post seems quite cheap. I wonder if it isn't more suited to an uninsulated storage building rather than a working shop.

Fickster
04-29-2016, 10:10 AM
Have you considered a canopy on the left end and putting a mobile home under it? Somebody else does the build out that way and its removeable.

Not much room for cross bracing in the wall shown.

Will you put insulation under the tin on the canopy? It won't cost much, and will allow you to enclose the building later with better results.

The price you mentioned in an earlier post seems quite cheap. I wonder if it isn't more suited to an uninsulated storage building rather than a working shop.
Insulated
Custom build 150 mph wind n 35 lbs snow load red iron. The outfit that builds and erected the building are Mennonite if that explains why it's so cheap

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