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ttyR2
08-29-2016, 10:26 AM
Building a 20X36ft shop extension. What's the hot ticket in lighting these days? Are LED tube lights that go in fluorescent light fixtures ready for prime time? The addition will be the machine shop and have metal lathes and milling machines so good bright light is important.

Todd496
08-29-2016, 10:54 AM
I dont own any LED'S although My wifes uncle works in a machine shop and he was just telling me they have been chancing the old fluorestcent tube lighting over to LED's. He said the operators like them and easy to do.

BD1
08-29-2016, 11:24 AM
You may want to consider ceiling height for proper illumination. Some fixtures and bulbs may fall short of a well lite area.

I bought a bunch of Costco 4' with two bulbs LEDS fixtures , $30.00 . They were great in the garage and basement. You may require something different.
Here's a post about them from GARAGEJOURNAL. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270879

You may do a search there too , might find some useful info.

mike837go
08-29-2016, 11:28 AM
Subscribing to this thread.

My barn/shop's florescent lighting is 30+ years old and doesn't work when the humidity is up or the temps are really down.

Seriously considering swinging over to LED. Replacing the fixtures would be part of the process!

BD1
08-29-2016, 11:44 AM
The Costco LED shop lights are amazing in the winter. My old fluorescents were darn near dead in colder temperature. The LEDS never failed and turned on instantly. what a improvement. I original had two four bulb old style ones in one area and replaced with two two bulb and the replacements are brighter. I love them for the money.

Grtpain
08-29-2016, 01:50 PM
http://www.ruralking.com/4-led-shoplight-4500-lumen.html
Just got this email today these look pretty good I wonder if anyone has used them? Says you can string 12 together

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Rog02
08-29-2016, 06:52 PM
If you are doing a remodel or new construction, check with your power provider for rebates/participation/discounts. At minimum they will provide you with professional lighting recommendations.

We relit an entire museum for about half of what it would have cost without the rebates. Not to mention the 50% reduction in power consumption.

Just an idea.

farmshop
08-29-2016, 08:19 PM
I put in some t5 fixtures. 6 of the 6 lamps fixtures in our 32x40 shop they do a good job if doing it now I would go with led

KMA
08-29-2016, 08:23 PM
I put in cheap dual T8 fixtures to start, and will eventually replace them with LED tubes. It is a very easy conversion.

ttyR2
08-29-2016, 08:44 PM
Internal truss construction, no ceiling, just insulated roof. 10ft or so to the bottom of the trusses.

steve45
08-29-2016, 09:50 PM
I've switched my barn from fluorescent to LED. It cost about $700, but it is SO much better.

bigb
08-29-2016, 10:40 PM
Each day fluorescent and incandescent lighting becomes more obsolete, while LED lighting gets cheaper and better. Just jump in.

Installing fluorescent and incandescent lighting is installing yesterdays technology. Think of when the auto makers were still giving you an 8 track when cassettes were the rage, then they were still giving you a cassette player when CDs were the rage.

Michael ray
08-29-2016, 10:46 PM
We have 36 fixtures at work, they are the t8 4ft bulbs with 3 bulbs in each fixture.

We have been ordering led tubes 25 per box from the internet.
Each time a ballast dies we remove it and hook up the feed to the tube ends and install the led bulbs.

Shop only has 24 led 4 ft tubes in now but it's brighter than its ever been before..can't wait to order enough to fill the rest of the fixtures

TomP83
08-29-2016, 11:01 PM
if you want to go all out then led is the way to go, but$$ if you are only dealing with 10ft or so then t8 is all you need, you will never get the lumens out of a t5 high bay at 10ft, with led the tubes that go into the existing lights are the retro fit method, your old ballast is still retained , new fixtures, lets say 2' 4' "s are an led array in strips or panels. any ''GOOD" electrical supply house can give you an ROI calculation on whatever you decide to put in, really only need the desired foot candles or lumens you want to work in and the time on per day to get a number.

Alabass
08-30-2016, 12:41 PM
I have LED's in my 30'x40' shop with 12' walls and I love them. Very bright, no flicker, and come on instantly.

1497901

bent
08-30-2016, 01:44 PM
I have both high bay LED fixtures and T5HO high bay fluorescent. The high bay LED were about three times the price per lumen as the T5HO, plus the cost of hanging extra fixtures. The largest LED I could find was the equivalent of a 4 bulb T5HO, all the T5HO I installed were 6 bulb.

Pay back on the LED based on $/lumen fixture cost only was very close to 3,000 hours. If thats less than 3 years usage, I'd go with the LED. If that is over 3 years, I'd go with the fluorescent. LED bulbs are improving so rapidly 3 years down the road todays LEDs will be as obsolete as high pressure sodium high bays.

mike837go
08-30-2016, 02:09 PM
The RV I bought last year has all LED lighting inside. Unfortunately the light is so harsh, we use oil lamps and candles while eating or relaxing. Reading or cleaning up? LED task lighting only.

How is working under LED lighting? Is it too harsh or bright? Better than florescent?

Justme
08-30-2016, 03:09 PM
My shop is about 25'x35' with open truss ceiling 16' high. I'm replacing all my 4' fluorescent lights with LED ones as they quit working. I've been getting the Costco 4' LED fixtures and one from Lowe's. Just depends which store in going to when I'm needing one. They are much brighter, and whiter, and don't have the cold weather issues. I love them! It's very noticeable working under them compared to working under the old fluorescents.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Michael ray
08-30-2016, 06:51 PM
The RV I bought last year has all LED lighting inside. Unfortunately the light is so harsh, we use oil lamps and candles while eating or relaxing. Reading or cleaning up? LED task lighting only.

How is working under LED lighting? Is it too harsh or bright? Better than florescent?

I've heard that fluorescent lights pulse at the ac hz cycle and it can strain the optic nerves. Incandescent or led emits a smooth light that does not..
Just what I remember reading somewhere

whtbaron
08-31-2016, 09:33 AM
I'm in the middle or a reno as well so this is something I've been looking at on this site and others. One ceiling is 14 ft ( 25 x30) so it will likely get the LED's. The other ceiling is only 7 ft (30 x 40 bench area) so it will likely get the flourescents. Prices vary widely at $50 to $600 a fixture ... I'll likely hit around the $200 mark for what I want. Some issues discussed on other threads include the need for proper fixtures to meet insurance requirements (up here it's the CSA sticker). The conversion bulbs that have CSA ratings require a ballast, but it's the newer style your fixtures may not have. Conversion bulbs that don't require a ballast, require ballast removal which some insurance companies say is a modification that negates the original tagging. I'm also considering some wall mounts to reduce shadows when working under something like a car hood.

Rog02
08-31-2016, 11:58 AM
The RV I bought last year has all LED lighting inside. Unfortunately the light is so harsh, we use oil lamps and candles while eating or relaxing. Reading or cleaning up? LED task lighting only.

How is working under LED lighting? Is it too harsh or bright? Better than florescent?

LEDs are available in different temperature ranges. The cooler the temperature the more to the "blue shift" we are all accustomed to from flashlights and such. A warmer temperature is more like sunlight. Candlepower is the measurement of light the fixture produces. Lumen is a measurement of light at a given distance. All these need to be calculated for a given task lighting. Do a bit of research on the web and you can find all the pertinent information.

Rog02
08-31-2016, 12:18 PM
I've heard that fluorescent lights pulse at the ac hz cycle and it can strain the optic nerves. Incandescent or led emits a smooth light that does not..
Just what I remember reading somewhere

It's true. I have a small optical tach that calibrates when pointed at a fluorescent light. In some cases of epilepsy the flicker can be enough to trigger a seizure. Flourecents and incandescent light also has infrared and ultraviolet which can be damaging to some things over prolonged exposure. One of the main reasons we relit the museum was for artifact and art preservation.

s4cruiser
08-31-2016, 06:35 PM
I put in cheap dual T8 fixtures to start, and will eventually replace them with LED tubes. It is a very easy conversion.

I went the same route. 24x32 shop/garage with 18 2-bulb T8 fixtures. It's great, nice and bright, wouldn't change a thing if I did it over again. I did end up adding under cabinet LED lighting over my workbench.

Here's a couple pics the day the they were installed.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7768/17802971444_6e03ba7c14_c.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8763/18237904960_5540a815f3_c.jpg

KMA
08-31-2016, 06:37 PM
I went the same route. 24x32 shop/garage with 18 2-bulb T8 fixtures. It's great, nice and bright, wouldn't change a thing if I did it over again. I did end up adding under cabinet LED lighting over my workbench.

Here's a couple pics the day the they were installed.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7768/17802971444_6e03ba7c14_c.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8763/18237904960_5540a815f3_c.jpg
Looks great!

whtbaron
09-06-2016, 09:27 PM
The more I consider all the pro's and con's, the more inclined I am to go with T-8's instead of LED fixtures. As much as I like the light, the power savings, the not changing bulbs, the reality is that my surface wiring on metal sheeting is going to have to be incorporated into the placement of the fixtures (probably in PVC). Once those LED fixtures go off warranty and start wearing out, they will have to be replaced and it's highly doubtful the units on the market at that point will fit seamlessly into my existing wiring. I will probably start off with mostly T-8's as well, and hopefully conversion bulbs will continue to improve and come down in price.

bigb
09-06-2016, 10:20 PM
The more I consider all the pro's and con's, the more inclined I am to go with T-8's instead of LED fixtures. As much as I like the light, the power savings, the not changing bulbs, the reality is that my surface wiring on metal sheeting is going to have to be incorporated into the placement of the fixtures (probably in PVC). Once those LED fixtures go off warranty and start wearing out, they will have to be replaced and it's highly doubtful the units on the market at that point will fit seamlessly into my existing wiring. I will probably start off with mostly T-8's as well, and hopefully conversion bulbs will continue to improve and come down in price.

Why don't you use MC cable? That way you have the flexibility for changes while still using an approved conduit method.

ferrret3238
09-07-2016, 02:08 AM
I just replaced all the old incandescent and 8' flourescent fixtures in my shop and added a few new ones also. The fixtures I got were 35 old troffers that came from a local bank remodel free on craigslist. I put 4' t5 size clear led bulbs from Ebay in them, 6000k so they're really bright. Led tubes are 120v so I pulled the ballasts on all of them and wired line on one end and neutral on the other. I also saw the bulbs are 80-265 volts so I singled out all the lighting on one circuit so I could put it on one of the wild breakers in the panel to have more space for other breakers in the panel. The troffers are kind of nice in that it protects the lights a little bit if something goes flying or swinging around a piece of metal to cut on the saw. A box of 25 bulbs was about $270 so it wasn't too bad to do all the lighting. The power company also had a rebate on lighting so I got some money back for doing all the lighting.

Pete.S.
09-07-2016, 08:03 AM
We use T5 for new fixtures. The difference between T5 and T8 is that all T5 fixtures have an electronic ballast and are flickerless. T8 with regular ballast flicker with the mains frequency, like a fast stroboscopic effect. That's why they hum as well. T5's are silent.

I have a couple of LED worklights and they flicker too. I can see it when I use a video camera. Strange but true.

Flicker can lead to headaches and you get tired faster. Some are more sensitive than others. It's hard to notice why you get tired unless you can compare one to the other.

I would never buy a T8 fixture. LED would have to be cheaper than T5 for me to buy them.

KMA
09-07-2016, 12:34 PM
If you plan to update from fluorescent to LED in a two staged upgrade, it's a cheaper path to reuse T8 fixtures. The ballast is removed so no issue there.

whtbaron
09-07-2016, 08:20 PM
Why don't you use MC cable? That way you have the flexibility for changes while still using an approved conduit method.

I haven't ruled it out, but my electrician and I have been arguing about that. He doesn't like it in an all metal building because of the possibility of lighting the place up in the event of a short. My argument is that if a mouse can't chew through it, shorts shouldn't happen very often. I was at the local building supply store this morning looking at light fixtures. Two bulb T-8's were $75 each ( I know that sounds expensive... I just bought some similar ones for $25) and the two bulb LED's were on sale for $75. Not as high as lumens as I was looking at, but I might just add a couple extra and run with them anyway. I've been through a half dozen supply stores, and I don't think I've seen a single T-5 fixture. Don't seem to be very popular up here.

bigb
09-07-2016, 09:29 PM
I haven't ruled it out, but my electrician and I have been arguing about that. He doesn't like it in an all metal building because of the possibility of lighting the place up in the event of a short.

That makes no sense, a short in MC cable will trip the breaker. Also a metal structure is supposed to be bonded, any type of wiring can short to a metal structure but bonding it to the service will enable the breaker to trip when it happens. Bonding can be as simple as using metal boxes and properly grounding them and bonding the main grounding bus to the structure with an appropriately sized conductor.

whtbaron
09-07-2016, 09:49 PM
Yea... maybe he's just worried I'll start hanging junk off of it and sag his pretty wiring. I know it would be a lot cheaper than PVC.

bigb
09-09-2016, 12:02 AM
Just installed 8 of these in a customer's garage with 13 foot ceilings and they are BRIGHT.

KMA
09-14-2016, 09:04 PM
I have nine, double 4ft T8 fixtures in my building. I installed a pair of LED bulbs in one of them today as a test, leaving in the ballast. I measured the fluorescent sets between 515-550 lux and the LED pair measured 1050 lux. Thought I'd share.

BlauSchuh
09-20-2016, 01:35 PM
Just installed a bunch of LED lights in my 30x30 shop a couple weeks ago. I was going to grab some of the T5 florescent strip lighting fixtures... but the price of these was just too tempting. $56 for 4. $14/each.

They are Hyperikon T5 strip lights... 22W each. 4000k temp. Supposedly made in the USA and lifetime warranty. I'll dig up the link if anyone is interested on Amazon.

I'm impressed, tons of light, almost instant startup, and the wiring is simple as you can simple daisy chain a bunch together with the supplied wiring (need to come up with a better solution than I currently have)...

Just ordered another two 4-packs for the other side of the garage. Can never have enough light!

For comparison... The wide single fixture on the left in the "After" pic is the High Bay 6 tube T8 fixture they sell at HomeDepot for $86 bucks with really cool 6000k or 6500k bulbs (yuck). I've had 5 of the high bay fixtures in another shop and they are great when they work... The ballasts on 4/5 have crapped out after 2-3 years.


Before:
1511871

After:
15118811511891