[farmersamm]

:laugh: Well, maybe not, but for me....it is :realmad:

That round shoulder presents a problem when it comes to vert stick. It's not only a fillet, it's a fillet with an additional fillet :laugh: PITA to do these right. And it's worse when dealing with 11ga tubing.

Anyways, I'm motoring along, and get crap like this :realmad:

Focusing the heat on the channel, and occasionally moving over to fill against the tubing. The results suck, and there's the constant worry about burn thru.

Strangely enough, I don't do these kind of joints very often. But, anyways.................It's all a matter of angle, and heat.

Attacking the problem in the traditional manner, you run in at a 45 degree angle.

This is all well, and good, for a typical joint where two pieces of plate meet. But you gotta ton of space to fill with the tubing shoulder giving you more void.

Changing the angle of attack, AND TURNING DOWN THE HEAT, gives better results.

Shove that thing into the shoulder gap, turn the heat down from 85amps to 75amps (I'm running 3/32), and JUST DRAG THE PUDDLE UPHILL WITH NO WEAVE TO THE TOES. Let the puddle fill the gap, and undercut. And there will be a LOT of undercut with one of these. It's a very slow weld because you're filling such a relatively large void. Have to let the rod burn off to melt enough filler to do the job. Lot of heat, and lot of undercut. And it gets worse the higher you get.

This kind of joint, whether in the flat position, or out of position, will sometimes fool you. The puddle may look good as you go along, but it will collapse into the void if you run too fast. It will pull away from the shoulder on the channel, and shows up after removing the slag. Sometimes this won't show up under the hood. You have to force yourself to run slow, and keep packing metal.

 

[mike837go]

Have you ever considered cleaning the metal a bit better and then getting in there with GMAW?

Set the voltage for the thicker metal, crank the wire feed up.. Fill the gap against the thicker metal and weave just enough to tie the thinner side in?

It worked great when I moved a dump body from a Chevy to a Ford back in 2012.

 

[farmersamm]

When you get your ducks in a row, and change your approach.......................

A totally different animal Watch the puddle like a hawk, and make sure it fills the trench you dug with the arc. And don't move that rod in any direction but up. Unless you happen to run a little wide, and have some undercut on the side away from the shoulder which needs filling.

 

[farmersamm]

Have you ever considered cleaning the metal a bit better and then getting in there with GMAW?

Set the voltage for the thicker metal, crank the wire feed up.. Fill the gap against the thicker metal and weave just enough to tie the thinner side in?

It worked great when I moved a dump body from a Chevy to a Ford back in 2012.

Metal is clean. Wire brush, and it's ready to rock. It's all about the arm when it comes to this stuff.

Speaking of wire.......you'll note that the wire welds holding the diamondplate have a degree of surface porosity. It's the main reason I stick with stick:laugh: Don't have to be a nit picker when it comes to preparing the joint. Wire is ultra sensitive to mill scale.......stick is not.

 

[farmersamm]

Wire would eliminate the long wait time while the pocket fills though. It is a better process for this particular kind of joint. I agree. But it's doable with stick, and has been long before the wire came into play.

Beauty of the wire is......you can dump a lot of filler in a hurry, and it freezes fast. This set of welds took about 2/3-3/4 rod per weld. That's a lot of wait time, with a lot of heat going on.

 

[farmersamm]

The leetle pointy wire pokes into that pesky gap, whether you do anything special, or not. It's a semi automated process.

With stick, you got some Moron (me) sitting there waiting for the doggone thing to fill, while shoving the stick in there. All the while trying to advance with some degree of steadiness, while shoving the rod, watching the undercut, watching the width of the weld, and praying it doesn't spill on his leg, while watching the puddle................................................................................

It adds a sort of elegance to life. The concert of electricity in the wire, and electricity firing the synapsis in the ol' noodle. :laugh: It's the Good Fight, for no other reason than FIGHTING the Good Fight

 

[farmersamm]

It's......it's......it's......it's........THE AMERICAN WAY!!

 

[mike837go]

Wire would eliminate the long wait time while the pocket fills though. It is a better process for this particular kind of joint. I agree. But it's doable with stick, and has been long before the wire came into play.
Beauty of the wire is......you can dump a lot of filler in a hurry, and it freezes fast. This set of welds took about 2/3-3/4 rod per weld. That's a lot of wait time, with a lot of heat going on.

I guess that's my advantage. I play in a lockable shop. All welders are right next to each other (SMAW, GMAW and GTAW are on the same cart). Pick the best one for the job and ATTACK!!!!! :waving_katana:

Crappy welds? :blush2: Plenty of disks for the angle grinder on the middle shelf near the front door....

 

[John T]

I hope those flip flops are OSHA approved...

 

[CEP]

When I want to carry a lot of iron vertically up hill. I run this pattern.
Other times I’ll run a J pattern. Place the long side of the J on the side that needs the most fill. With 7018 you need to keep the movement slow.

 

[Pete.S.]

When I want to carry a lot of iron vertically up hill. I run this pattern.
Other times I’ll run a J pattern. Place the long side of the J on the side that needs the most fill. With 7018 you need to keep the movement slow.

Hey, I'd thought you heavy fabrications guys would break out the dual shield when you want to carry a lot of iron uphill. :cool2:

 

[Mr. Smith]

The radius of the square tubing makes it not a fillet, per se, but a single bevel. The electrode angle should never be 45º because it's not a fillet. It's more analogous to a butt joint.

 

[CEP]

Or some 5/64” self shielded flux core wire.

 

[farmersamm]

The radius of the square tubing makes it not a fillet, per se, but a single bevel. The electrode angle should never be 45º because it's not a fillet. It's more analogous to a butt joint.

A butt joint would require a 45 degree angle to the face of the root.

This is why I don't post too much crap here anymore :realmad:

 

[Mr. Smith]

A butt joint would require a 45 degree angle to the face of the root.

This is why I don't post too much crap here anymore :realmad:

It depends upon the type of butt joint. The type that you set up is more a single-bevel butt than a fillet. Once you fill in the bevel, the result is a fillet.

See the difference?

 

[farmersamm]

It depends upon the type of butt joint. The type that you set up is more a single-bevel butt than a fillet. Once you fill in the bevel, the result is a fillet.

See the difference?

I stand corrected, the stuff from some manual is outstanding. All I got to go on, is what I'm looking at under the hood.

 

[TimmyTIG]

I would run a downhill 6010 pass first, then go with the 7018.

 

[farmersamm]

Speaking of which............I got into a shooting match with a bud.

Uphill always brings out the best in folks

Flip them on their side, and talk to me.

Do that, and I'll hire you, and sell all of my stuff

And you guys wonder why I run a blog these days. I'm too old for the Bull$$$t

 

[TimmyTIG]

What does that last post even mean? You have a problem with running downhill 6010 on junk iron?

 

[farmersamm]

Why do a root pass (the ever popular answer), if the main pass is acceptable.