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Munkul

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
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Ever since I saw these sort of things from Fireball Tool and the likes, I’ve been struck with the idea of laser/water cut component fixtures, that slot together to give an almost-indestructible and accurate square for bolting/clamping/jigging.
I wanted my own design, main features are:
- 5mm steel, 350mm tall from table height – about the right sort of size for my work
- Slotted on one side for exact size jigging
- 16mm holes at 50mm centres to work with my welding table hole pattern
- Slotted to allow mig torch access into the inside 90 corner
- Fully enclosed with a usable 45 degree angle plate on the back side. I haven’t seen anyone else do this other than Fireball Tool, and it makes use of an otherwise wasted side and makes it almost bombproof.

Thanks to my cousin Jordan for the offer of cheap laser cutting, I put some effort into this. On Saturday he turned up with my first squares (the stainless one was a happy accident!)

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I used my existing pins and table to make these up, using the drop-in pins and pressure from one side to hold them together – and a mirror flip setup for the other side. This is only using the table for straightness and flatness, and the squareness is coming from the contact fitup to the laser-cut triangle.

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Next, I want to finish and prove the design of a 500mm square – this will have a 60 degree back angle, again for the versatility to make angled components.

The next step will be to make some small 100mm high “jigging” squares with slotted bases.

The fab shop guys at where I work would like some larger ones with 28mm hole sizing to take advantage of their huge 5m jig table (which I got them to put a 200mm hole pattern in, knowing that this sort of thing was coming!)

Really, once you have your cutting tolerances and base design, your possibilities for this sort of thing are endless.
 
They are of course very nice.
The Chinese will think nothing of copying you designs and selling them on the internet.
I saw it happen before on something else that was a one off I know someone built. The even put a hole in that did nothing, just happened to be in the steel that was used!
 
Discussion starter · #8 · (Edited)
Thanks guys. I'm honestly over the moon with how this turned out, I'd love to start selling them because I really believe in the design being useful for almost all jobs.

Well done. Will vice-clamps reach inside?
Yes, regular 6" welding clamps fit inside no problem. I can also fit my inserta-clamps inside the holes and clamp from the inside like that, too.

They are of course very nice.
The Chinese will think nothing of copying you designs and selling them on the internet.
I saw it happen before on something else that was a one off I know someone built. The even put a hole in that did nothing, just happened to be in the steel that was used!
To be honest, if the chinese had copied Certi-flat or Fireball tool designs and sold them online in the UK, I probably would have just ordered them and not bothered with my own.

Those are very reminiscent of something Fireball Tools used to sell. They discontinued theirs for some reason. Certiflat makes something like that as well.
I think Fireball Tools stopped selling theirs as soon as they got the cast versions up and running. Those cast aluminium squares are lovely, lovely things, I'd have one or two if they imported to UK for sensible prices. It seems that no self-respecting fabricating youtuber is seen without one.

I finally worked out where my oddball square came from! It must have been a bulk import that someone did as a one-off from Certi-Flat, and they sold them on Ebay. I paid way too much for it and I would have bought more, but he never re-stocked. It's really not all that great for my table because it's got 5/8" holes, not 16mm, but the size and strength of the thing means until now it got used on loads of stuff.
You can see the oddball square in the picture here and there I think, it has no flat on the long side which always seemed like a waste to me.
 
The fab shop guys at where I work would like some larger ones with 28mm hole sizing to take advantage of their huge 5m jig table (which I got them to put a 200mm hole pattern in, knowing that this sort of thing was coming!)
Great work on the squares.

BTW, 28mm fixture tables normally have a 100mm hole pattern. And 16mm tables have a 50mm hole pattern.

Also I assume you built your table yourself. For a shop the Siegmund 28 "BASIC" tables are good value. It's a little over 1" table thickness.
http://www.welding-tables.co.uk/products/system-28-basic
We bought one two years ago and paid around £1200 for the table (1x2m) excl. shipping.
 
Discussion starter · #10 · (Edited)
28mm fixture tables normally have a 100mm hole pattern. And 16mm tables have a 50mm hole pattern.

Also I assume you built your table yourself. For a shop the Siegmund 28 "BASIC" tables are good value. It's a little over 1" table thickness.
http://www.welding-tables.co.uk/products/system-28-basic
We bought one two years ago and paid around £1200 for the table (1x2m) excl. shipping.
Yeah I decided on 100mm hole spacing for my table because 50mm was unnecessary l for anything I'd do. Built my table from 20mm thick plate 1.2 x 2.5m for just over £800 all in.

Mitch built the one at work with 200mm hole spacing for the same reason - 100mm was overkill. His is 25mm plate 2.5 x 5m, built really for laying out pipebridge supports etc for tacking, then moved to trestles for welding out.

When you have horribly wonky floors everywhere like we do, having a huge flat surface for fit-up is such a boon. Same with the squares. No more of this "square it, tack it, square it, tack it, hit it with a hammer and square it again" procedure. Yes it works. but We Can Get Better!

The siegmund tables look pretty decent value for money tbf. It would be interesting if you could take a pic of the underside of your table - I'd like to see what framework there is under there, just out of interest :) they don't look all that hefty from the topside photos.
 
It seems that no self-respecting fabricating youtuber is seen without one.
The fireball squares are pricey for what they are, but I treated myself to two of the small ones last Christmas and this Christmas I got one of the large ones. I like them, but there are probably cheaper alternatives that are just as good. But I really like them.

 
Yeah I decided on 100mm hole spacing for my table because 50mm was unnecessary l for anything I'd do. Built my table from 20mm thick plate 1.2 x 2.5m for just over £800 all in.

Mitch built the one at work with 200mm hole spacing for the same reason - 100mm was overkill. His is 25mm plate 2.5 x 5m, built really for laying out pipebridge supports etc for tacking, then moved to trestles for welding out.

When you have horribly wonky floors everywhere like we do, having a huge flat surface for fit-up is such a boon. Same with the squares. No more of this "square it, tack it, square it, tack it, hit it with a hammer and square it again" procedure. Yes it works. but We Can Get Better!

The siegmund tables look pretty decent value for money tbf. It would be interesting if you could take a pic of the underside of your table - I'd like to see what framework there is under there, just out of interest :) they don't look all that hefty from the topside photos.
The basic 28 table is just a 30mm top with legs attached. It has been machined perfectly flat so it's around 28mm or so.
There is no framework or support under the table top itself and frankly I don't think it is needed. I haven't been able to detect any flexing what so ever. The steel is S355J2+N so it's a little better than standard structural steel.

The legs are fastened with counter sunk bolts through the table. Legs are 70 or 80mm. Larger tables have more legs.
The machined grid lines are useful when lining up things visually.

This is a picture from when we got the table. Clamps in the pic are Bessey TW28 series.


Of course it would be nice to have one of the more advanced Siegmund 28 tables out of surface treated tool steel but then the price goes up a couple of hundred percent.
 
Hate to imagine what a table like that costs.

Also, what is the preferred material for the Fireball squares? Aluminum or Cast Iron?
I went with the cast iron squares because I was worried about dropping them and that the aluminum would ding.
If you are more gentle with your tools you could use the aluminum.

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Before all this newfangulated prefab stuff---- we built heavy angle squares, which, with careful clamping-welding did as well.The new stuff is a matter of convenience and guaranteed spot on accuracy. Thats what these guys specialize in and can do it better than the average me. Help them out.It's not that much money and allows you to get right to it.
 
I went with the cast iron squares because I was worried about dropping them and that the aluminum would ding.
If you are more gentle with your tools you could use the aluminum.

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I’m of the same opinion as Pat. The only REAL advantage of the aluminum squares would be shipping weight.

Bonzoo’s right too. In reality the manufactured squares are a small price to pay for REAL accuracy if that’s what you’re after.

Adding on to all this kiss assing I will once again mention I think the OP did an awesome job!


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I don't build watches, square is a waste of time, if I'm within 3/16" when the smoke blows away I call it good and move on. Gaps are what welding rod is for.

"If it looks straight, it is straight." ~Jimmy Diresta :laugh:
Thats not too far off from what I have seen some Pipe fitters do in the power plants I have worked in. Man do those pumps they install without millwrights have a lot of pipe strain on them.
 
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