Robb M.;n2930172 said:
In compliance with the repeated request of Robb M., here are the two Welding Web History posts copied over from the March 2020 temporary WW forum:Robb M.;n2928509 said:
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Well, Robb M. , since you've only been here since 2013, I can give you a one sentence summary on how the Welding Web came alive about 10 years prior to your joining. I had forgotten the particulars of this history, but since you had me worried there for a moment that I'd have to copy all of my much older posts, I searched my post history from January 2004 and a few foggy memories came back...
chuckwk started the WW forum in late August 2003, but nobody came. The popular welding forums at the time were both run by ITW, Hobart's Weld Talk and the Millerwelds forum. Lincoln Electric never had an open forum, but the Chaski.org message board (aka The Home Machinist! forum) had the welding machine swap prolific Brand X as a moderator, and a Lincoln Applications Engineer from Canada (who was a member of more than one welding forum back then, but I probably shouldn't give away his various user names). Probably the most active board at the time was Weld Talk, on the Hobart site.
For a time there Miller and Hobart were very gracious hosts, accommodating the expression of any discontent with their products with public customer service, which served to endear users to their brand. But one day, someone opened up their new welding machine that had a USA flag on it, as if made in the USA, and found a bunch of parts made in foreign countries. This became a hot topic back then in the post 911 resurgence of patriotism, as the USA had entrenched into prolonged and then growing war in the Middle East.
An ITW representative named "Rock" on the Weld Talk and Miller forums, not be confused with master weldor (in real life) Rocky D of both this and that forum, was apparently disciplined, demoted, and summarily dismissed by ITW for providing honest answers to members questions about the country of origin of the machines. I'm not quite clear about all that happened regarding Rock, but it sure upset a lot of regular members.
One remarkable member, Franz , who had just happened to notice the empty existence of the alive but dormant Welding Web forum, suggested that everyone who took issue with how Weld Talk management treated Rock, simply leave Weld Talk and come over here. Chuck didn't know what hit WW when the aircraft carrier full of Weld Talk refugees docked at Welding Web in January 2004.
Franz wrote
Well, that bit of history turned out to be more than just a sentence, but as WW is poised on the brink of a new beginning, it seemed like the previous beginning might be of interest to the newer, more prolific members like Hobbytime, who wonders why some don't post as much. One reason, I realize, is because the forum friends I followed here are gone. Franz hasn't posted since 2005, which is about when I stopped posting regularly. Scott S, (not to be confused with Scott V.) who did so much work getting WW up to equivalent Weld Talk speed in the beginning, is no longer even a member of record here.Originally posted by Franz said:
Heck, even Lanse, who back then was just a young graduating high school student at the time, showing us his welds and asking us which welding school he should go to (he chose Hobart, and eventually became YouTube famous as ChuckE2009, and later infamous in 2019) isn't here to talk about his choices in shielding gas, or in life.
So there is drama, along with well delivered welding advice, all enveloped in these archives.
Thank you Robb M., for all your efforts, even if not to savor the memories, at least to save them.
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Maybe I never understood the seemingly unnecessary cloak and dagger forum secrecy over who owns WW now.
Or maybe I'm going stir crazy over this whole stay at home shelter in place pandemic and looming GreatER Depression.
Or maybe, I'm simply curious about what happened to WW, what is happening to WW, and what will happen to WW.
So I dug deeper during this surreal down time. And in so doing, I'd like to add a few more comments on the history of WW as it relates to the thread title, which asks if there is a "Reason to change the Welding Web?"
In the fall of 2003, Welding Web was a nascent and neglected forum with a catchy URL, with fewer than 10 members, of which only about 3 were active.
One cold winter Friday evening in early January 2004, a supervisor at ITW escorted the well respected, highly regarded Hobart Weld Talk Forum ITW employee known as "ROCK" out of the building to the unemployment line, so to speak, for speaking the truth about ITW products.
The active members of Weld Talk at the time were furious, and decided, en masse, to abandon Weld Talk over that very weekend, so that when the supervisor returned to work on Monday morning, a huge drop in traffic would be noticed. Weld Talk, once the most active (and still arguably the most informative, considering the archives) welding forum on the internet, would be empty. This sudden emptiness would send a strong message to the supervisor and to ITW.
Come Monday morning, Hobart's board was a graveyard. And Welding Web was ALIVE, suddenly teaming with all the talkative welding talent from Weld Talk. Chuck, the original owner and founder of WW, also owned Lawnsite and Plowsite, and straight out of the Miller blue (literally and figuratively) his most dormant site, Welding Web, suddenly became his most popular... at least for brief period of time.
I found another post of Franz, the Weld Talk member who brought everyone over to WW. Franz has a way of putting things that I would never personally say in the manner in which he says them, so he is quoted verbatim below:
So enter Penton, stage left, in 2006. Which is funny, because I stopped posting in 2006, not because of any awareness of Penton's purchase, but because the active members that I had followed over here began disappearing. I don't know if they drifted or were driven away... I didn't get that deep into it. The original culture simply changed, even though the activity level here remained strong for a few more years yet.Franz said:
Franz stopped posting on WW a long time ago, but his brisk, if not brusque assessment of the post Penton purchase period continues in retrospect elsewhere as follows:
And indeed, another buyer did. But taking a page out of Robb M's Book of Notgonnasay, we'll get to who that buyer was later. First, let's look briefly at who Penton was. because I think understanding the ownership of Penton very tellingly explains the title to this thread: Reason to change the Welding Web.Franz said:
During the 2006 time period when Penton Media was acquiring Welding Web, Penton itself was being acquired by Prism Business Media. Prism was co-owned by US Equity Partners II, which was an investment fund sponsored by Wasserstein & Co, L.P., a private equity and investment firm focused on leveraged buyouts (more on these LBO guys later), and by Highfields Capital Management, an investment management firm, and by Lexington Partners, a secondary private equity capital manager providing liquidity in limited partnership interests.
But wait, there are still more crisply dry cleaned New York suits involved here. Prism's merger with Penton in the fall of 2006 led to Wasserstein & Co. Limited Partners, the sponsor of Equity Partners II, co owned by Highfield Capital Management and Lexington Partners, to partner with Mid-Ocean Partners, a New York-based alternative asset manager. That's a lot of suited up investment asset managers and limited partners, and not a welder in sight... which starts to gives some insight into the reason for the changes at Welding Web.
So, as Franz said, this laundry list of ivy league college frathouse pump and dump vulture capital partners does indeed eventually find a buyer. But it took 10 years and a trip across the pond to find one, in the form of Informa, PLC, based in London, England, in 2016. The price? 1.56 Billion Buck$ with a B. (1.2 bn British Pounds at the exchange rate of the day, for anyone fact checking Informa press releases.)
The 33 page Power Point presentation on Informa's proposed (and eventually consummated) purchase of Penton, that Informa PLC presented to their shareholders, never so much as even mentioned Welding Web, not even once.
Some five vertical markets that involve welding, including Design & Manufacturing, Infrastructure, Transportation, Agriculture, and the Food industry are all identified iconically, numerically, graphically and in writing as the targeted business to business brands being acquired, including media entites such as American Machinist (now there's an oxymoron, given the purchase by a British marketing entity).
Still, not one willow of a wisp of a whisper of a mention of Welding Web. But they bought it.
And this is the sale transaction of four years ago, in 2016, not the most recent sale that precipitated Welding Web going dark in February 2020. That was a completely different transaction. And 2020 isn't the first time WW went dark for a few weeks. It happened again inbetween these transaction, back in February of 2018... but that is getting into the weeds.
Back to the WW purchase history, we are still sitting in 2016 in this "brief" synopsis, which is the same year that a certain WW member first joined this forum. Some 5,500 posts later, this member postulated that because a wheezing old geezer hasn't posted as much in 20 years as he has in 2, that this somehow has to do with why and where WW is today.
But keep in mind that prior to this member ever joining, WW had already changed hands at least twice.. transacting between a half dozen Leer Jet loads full of slick silk suited Partners. Say 98/2 to them and they think percentage of profit and loss, not Ar and O2. Say stick out to them and you'll get sent to sexism sensitivity training. Welding Web isn't even a blip on their EBITDA radar.
The "reasons for Welding Web changes" likely have little to do with how prolific WW members are, whether they put up 5,500 posts, or put up 5,500 words in one post. Where WW is headed depends on the directions that it is being lead. Owners and leadership dictate direction. While the forum's content and energy emerge from the members, it is the forum's owners and leadership that enable the platform to flourish or flounder.
So let's look at the most recent former owners, Informa PLC. I've copied Informa's most relevant press release of year end results for 2019, which includes a very oblique reference to a divestiture of interests in October of 2019 that other sleuthing proved to include WW. Before reading the quote below, you might want to adjust your hood's shade level a tad, as it is nearly impossible to see any puddle of reality behind the blinding arc of rhetoric...
Informa said:
Stephen A. Carter said:
Maybe Google can translate the pontific gobbldegook above into English?2019 Informa.com Divisional Highlights said:
I'm certainly not the sharpest tungsten tip in a tig torch, but I think they are talking about money? Without actually saying anything? The word that was repeated most often was "growth". Well... one thing they are not talking about: Welding Web... except to say that they pitched and ditched the division which included WW back in October. And that new buyer, who announced their purchase in early November, and who owns WW now...
... is a mystery.
Or at least, WAS a mystery, until I made it my micro mission to find out during this current stay at home order, especially after 4 earnest attempts at asking the question here in the forum remained skirted, deflected, avoided, and unanswered. Who owns WW now is a reasonable curiousity, given the recent outage, the looming erasure, and the pending transition of WW again.
So let's see who bought WW this time:
Endeavor Business Media said:
Chris Ferrell said:
More gobbledygook.Sue Boehlke said:
Franz put it in words that I can better relate to:
Human beings who care are the soul and center of any forum... not a crock of corporate speak about "broadening and strengthening the breadth and depth of our B2B brands to leverage exceptional opportunity and compelling market advantage to deliver revenue growth." Beyond this blizzard blather, what do the people who string these phrases together actually do? Besides buy, repackage, and resell perceptions of brands, what do they actually build?Franz said:
Unless Robb M is trying to talk him out of the keys, it looks like Chris Ferrell, CEO of Endeavor Business Media out of Nashville Tennesse, is currently the man in ultimate charge of WW, at least for the last few months. I finally was able to answer my own question, and along the way, found a few answers to questions I didn't previously ask.
Forum ownership and leadership can make a meaningful difference in forum functionality.
I found another welding forum, owned and operated by a down to earth human being named Jody who is passionate about welding (posting weekly welding tips and tricks videos on YouTube). Since many members there used to be members over here, it isn't so much that the grass is greener on the other welding forum. It is that the grass hasn't been doused with weed killer by the corporate owners.
Apparently, WW has been little more than a weed tucked in a cobblestone crack on a London street paved with New York gold, where an annual parade of puffed up Partners party with percentages and gab about "growth" over tea and martinis. They don't give a sliver of slag about the profession, the hobby, the science, or the art of welding. Nor do they know or care about the history of individual contributions made to WW, including photos, that comprise the library of member to member discoveries that create a personal connection to this craft.
That's why WW got hit with the Round-up. That's why WW went out of service, more than once. That's why the WW hard drive got deleted. That's why WW doesn't have fully functioning forum software, which makes it all the more difficult for members to participate. That's the reason for the change.
