Spray Arc
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Thread: Spray Arc

  1. #1
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    Spray Arc

    I'd thought I'd try to start a thread on the various aspects of spray arc/pulse spray welding with MIG.

    As this is a area of welding that the Newbies and even some of the older guys aren't familiar with, I want to challenge any and all experts or even amateurs to post up welds, comments, types of machines they use to do it, settings, gas mixture etc.

    Here's some of mine. I may have posted some of these pics before that I did with my ESAB with C18 gas from AirGas but never explained that it was a spray process. I used ESAB wire with ER70-S6 rating. These melted my helmet btw. RIP HF 49.00 special.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  2. #2
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Welds look good, you forgot the settings.

    Real world weldin.

    When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.

  3. #3
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Unfortunately,
    ESAB doesn't give voltage settings... But wire feed about 6.25 out of 10. High range with heat setting at 4 out of 10. 280 amp rated welder. I have wanted a digital output for my machine, but never got around to ponying up the $$$ for the add on.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  4. #4
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    Unfortunately,
    ESAB doesn't give voltage settings... But wire feed about 6.25 out of 10. High range with heat setting at 4 out of 10. 280 amp rated welder. I have wanted a digital output for my machine, but never got around to ponying up the $$$ for the add on.
    The price on the V/A meter has dropped significantly. When I bought my machine 3 years ago, the meter was in the $350 range. I priced it a again a few months ago, and it was down to $85. So, I bought one for my unit.

    To keep the Migmaster 250 theme of this thread going, I'll add a couple weld pictures for you. Nothing special, I was just playing with the unit, so the welds were ran on scrap. I didn't have the meter yet, so I don't know the output on these. The voltage was set to high coarse/ 2 fine with a wire speed dial setting just shy of 8. I was running 98/2 oxy at the time. I just switched to 90/10CO˛ last Friday, but I haven't had an opportunity yet to run the ESAB with it.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  5. #5
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Absolutely perfect, from beginning to ending. No crater.

    That Hobart wire...what is the AWS classification? I don't recognize that one.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  6. #6
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    Absolutely perfect, from beginning to ending. No crater.

    That Hobart wire...what is the AWS classification? I don't recognize that one.
    The QA-6 is my abbreviation for Quantum Arc 6, which is an ER70S-6 wire.

  7. #7
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    Re: Spray Arc

    This was 3x3x3/16 angle 6" long welded to 2x3/16 flat bar, 1/8" gap, flat position, with welding table acting as backing plate, Millermatic 350P, pulse, 300 ipm, .035 ER70S-6.
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

  8. #8
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    Re: Spray Arc

    I don't see the pics...
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  9. #9
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Sorry, the computer crashed when I was tryin to get the pics onto the post. They're kinda blurry but here they are--





    backside-
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

  10. #10
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    Re: Spray Arc

    seeing these pics makes me want a bigger mig so bad.im guessing when u do spray u need to move a bit faster then u normaly would?

  11. #11
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    Re: Spray Arc

    I definitely fall into the newbie area, so much so that I have to ask ... what is spray arc / pulse spray welding? The welds looks fantastic.

  12. #12
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    Re: Spray Arc

    It deposits metal faster, faster yes. But it is also not for really light gauge material as the process generates lots of heat. Speed of forward movement depends on the type of weld as well.

    Here's a textbook definition

    In spray transfer very fine droplets or particles of the wire are rapidly projected through the arc from the end of the electrode to the work piece in the direction in which the electrode is pointed. While in the process of transferring through the welding arc, the metal particles do not interrupt the plow of current and there is virtually a constant "spray" of material. Spray transfer requires a high current density. With high current the arc becomes a steady quiet column with a well defined narrow incandescent cone shape. The use of argon (or suitable high argon content mix) is necessary because it produces a "pinching" effect on the molten tip of the electrode permitting only small droplets to form and transfer during the welding process. With high heat input, heavy wire electrodes will melt readily and deep weld penetration becomes possible. Since the individual drops are small, the arc is stable and can be directed where required.

    Pulse is similar, except that through automatic modulation of the current allows the weld to cool while the current drops into the globular transfer range momentarily before returning to spray range. It helps in out of position welds.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  13. #13
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Just a few more questions.

    Would you only use spray transfer on heavy guage material where good penetration is needed?
    Do you need a special type of welding machine to do it?
    I can see the welds are very neat, but why and when would you use spray transfer?

    Thanks again.

  14. #14
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    Re: Spray Arc

    I have the pulse feature on my (new to me) MM350P. I haven't gotten to play with it much but it makes a hell of a sound cranked up on pulse! I don't understand the wire setting in the pulse mode, I don't think it reads it in ipm.
    Dewayne
    Dixieland Welding

    MM350P
    Lincoln 100
    Some torches
    Other misc. tools

  15. #15
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by siringo View Post
    Just a few more questions.

    Would you only use spray transfer on heavy guage material where good penetration is needed?
    Do you need a special type of welding machine to do it?
    I can see the welds are very neat, but why and when would you use spray transfer?

    Thanks again.
    I think that you will need a machine that goes well over 180 amps and machines able to generate 28 volts or greater, to sustain any extended sessions of spray. Some people report being able to do it with smaller machines, but I am suspicious that they are "nearly" at spray levels and at the higher end of globular transfer.

    Any material over about 3/16 is a candidate if controlling the heat or possble warpage is not an issue. Generally, I only use it on 5/16 or greater material.

    As to why and when:

    Any time a neat clean job with no cleanup is prefered is a reason. Also time factors could be a consideration.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  16. #16
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    I think that you will need a machine that goes well over 180 amps and machines able to generate 28 volts or greater, to sustain any extended sessions of spray. Some people report being able to do it with smaller machines, but I am suspicious that they are "nearly" at spray levels and at the higher end of globular transfer.

    Any material over about 3/16 is a candidate if controlling the heat or possble warpage is not an issue. Generally, I only use it on 5/16 or greater material.

    As to why and when:

    Any time a neat clean job with no cleanup is prefered is a reason. Also time factors could be a consideration.
    The 180 amp units don't output enough voltage to spray an .030 or .035 wire. With 98/2 oxy, some of the 200-210 amp units output the necessary 24 -25 load volts to spray an .030 or .035 @ 200+ amps. I had to go this route for a few years with my MM 210, until I had the funds to purchase a 250+ amp unit.

    I found a few more weld pics. the first two were produced with my Millermatic 210, and the third was produced with the Millermatic 251 that I sold to purchase my Migmaster 250.

    All three are just on scrap , because I was dialing the unit in.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  17. #17
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    Re: Spray Arc

    do u think a HH140 could get to globular transfer on straight argon. my guess is no. i might just have to go to my buddys and use his 210 hobart

  18. #18
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    Re: Spray Arc

    I don't think you could get close. However, I haven't tried it with such a light machine. I doubt it has enough arc density.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  19. #19
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Whats the smallest wire gauge you can use .35?I am looking in my Acklands catolog and all they have is .45?

  20. #20
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    I'd thought I'd try to start a thread on the various aspects of spray arc/pulse spray welding with MIG.

    As this is a area of welding that the Newbies and even some of the older guys aren't familiar with, I want to challenge any and all experts or even amateurs to post up welds, comments, types of machines they use to do it, settings, gas mixture etc.

    Here's some of mine. I may have posted some of these pics before that I did with my ESAB with C18 gas from AirGas but never explained that it was a spray process. I used ESAB wire with ER70-S6 rating. These melted my helmet btw. RIP HF 49.00 special.
    Nice welds, what is the content of C18 gas?
    Last edited by wagin; 03-26-2009 at 04:43 AM. Reason: stupid coment
    Miller TrailBlazer 251
    Miller HF-250-1
    Miller MaxStar 150 STL
    HyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasma
    Lincoln PowerMig 180
    Millermatic 252
    Miller Diversion 180

  21. #21
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by littlefuzz View Post
    I have the pulse feature on my (new to me) MM350P. I haven't gotten to play with it much but it makes a hell of a sound cranked up on pulse! I don't understand the wire setting in the pulse mode, I don't think it reads it in ipm.
    I just hooked up a pendant to the miller maxtron at work and it sound like a very loud duck with very bad gas. everybody walking by my work area snickers and makes rude comments, but you should see the welds it puts out - fantastic in all positions.

  22. #22
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by lugweld View Post
    It deposits metal faster, faster yes. But it is also not for really light gauge material as the process generates lots of heat. Speed of forward movement depends on the type of weld as well.

    Here's a textbook definition

    In spray transfer very fine droplets or particles of the wire are rapidly projected through the arc from the end of the electrode to the work piece in the direction in which the electrode is pointed. While in the process of transferring through the welding arc, the metal particles do not interrupt the plow of current and there is virtually a constant "spray" of material. Spray transfer requires a high current density. With high current the arc becomes a steady quiet column with a well defined narrow incandescent cone shape. The use of argon (or suitable high argon content mix) is necessary because it produces a "pinching" effect on the molten tip of the electrode permitting only small droplets to form and transfer during the welding process. With high heat input, heavy wire electrodes will melt readily and deep weld penetration becomes possible. Since the individual drops are small, the arc is stable and can be directed where required.

    Pulse is similar, except that through automatic modulation of the current allows the weld to cool while the current drops into the globular transfer range momentarily before returning to spray range. It helps in out of position welds.
    D*mn Lugweld,
    I think you maybe the "King James" of the welding bible!

    I have a Lin 180c. I hate cold mig welds. Pressing the 180 to its max, I can't acheive spray. I'm runing 75/25, would 98/2 help at all?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Miller TrailBlazer 251
    Miller HF-250-1
    Miller MaxStar 150 STL
    HyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasma
    Lincoln PowerMig 180
    Millermatic 252
    Miller Diversion 180

  23. #23
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by weldrwomn View Post
    I just hooked up a pendant to the miller maxtron at work and it sound like a very loud duck with very bad gas. everybody walking by my work area snickers and makes rude comments, but you should see the welds it puts out - fantastic in all positions.
    Beautiful aint it?

    NOW you know why I have been talking it up so much. The heat and beauty of spray and the control of mig!

    David
    Real world weldin.

    When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.

  24. #24
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Wagin,

    You are not spray welding. C/25 may look like its spraying but its not. This has been discussed here a lot. If you had true spray, the gun would melt down. Try some 98/2 and see the difference. .030 wire is as big as that machine will spray, it doesn't have enough balls.

    I have tried it with c/25 and with 30+ volts I can get something like spray, but I have no control of the arc. 155 amps is the minimum with 98/2. When it goes from globular to true spray the arc makes a loud crack. If its just on the edge, it will continue to crackle as you weld telling you not enough volts or amps. Hook a wire feed to your trailblazer and use 98/2. It should do it.

    David
    Real world weldin.

    When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.

  25. #25
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    Re: Spray Arc

    Quote Originally Posted by littlefuzz View Post
    I have the pulse feature on my (new to me) MM350P. I haven't gotten to play with it much but it makes a hell of a sound cranked up on pulse! I don't understand the wire setting in the pulse mode, I don't think it reads it in ipm.
    Your 350P wire speed setting is reading in inches per minute in the pulse mode.

    Yeah, it does make a unique sound. Weldrwomn's description of the sound was quite entertaining.
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

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