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Thread: Mig like Tig

  1. #101
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    I figured as much. Thanks for fessin' up.
    No problem...I wouldn't want to be a hack and a liar now would I.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    You are right, I didn't read the whole thread; my apologies. Your smooth corner bead there is what I was talking about; that is how it should always look. You have the amps, wire speed, angle and rate of travel all dialed in perfectly. Very nice work.
    If I saw a rippled, dime stacked bead there I would have to wonder why it was there, when clearly, to me anyway,
    the smooth one is the most superior. It is also the one that would need no dressing. Paint will adhere more evenly and last longer on the smooth one.
    Rippled welds are pretty, but why bother, if you know how to weld, as you cleary do?

  3. #103
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    You are right, I didn't read the whole thread; my apologies. Your smooth corner bead there is what I was talking about; that is how it should always look. You have the amps, wire speed, angle and rate of travel all dialed in perfectly. Very nice work.
    If I saw a rippled, dime stacked bead there I would have to wonder why it was there, when clearly, to me anyway,
    the smooth one is the most superior. It is also the one that would need no dressing. Paint will adhere more evenly and last longer on the smooth one. Rippled welds are pretty, but why bother, if you know how to weld, as you cleary do?
    Superior? Okay.......Needs no dressing? Why dress a perfect weld? In automotive world looks are very important so the weld needs to be shown off. Paint not stickin? Ha ha ha ha! Paint will last on any weld that is properly prepped for paint.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Hello Paul,
    Filler neck weld SUPERB !! (only wish I could weld Half as bad)

    Regards Gordon.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Hello Paul,
    Filler neck weld SUPERB !! (only wish I could weld Half as bad)

    Regards Gordon.
    Lincoln SP-170 Mig
    Hypertherm powermax 45
    Lorch T220 AC/DC Tig
    Butters FM 215 synergic Mig
    Kemppi 180 adaptive mig


    RULES ARE FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FOOLS AND THE
    GUIDANCE OF WISE MEN.

  6. #106
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Quote Originally Posted by maarty View Post
    Rippled welds are pretty, but why bother, if you know how to weld, as you cleary do?
    You answered your own question. I know how to make a proper weld and also know and understand how to manipulate the puddle to acheive, IMO, a better looking but still structurally sound weld.

    I respect your opinion maarty but what I don't respect is your saying that the method that I and many others use is "not professional".

    As lugweld mentioned earlier, I think it's the true mark of a professional to have the ability to use many different methods and understand when and how to use them.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    When doing a weave with MIG, you need MORE heat to keep a fluid puddle. SO if you are welding the same part with MORE HEAT, then it should be better?

    Both ways work. I personally don't need no stinkin dimes. When I am welding bigger stuff and have the heat cranked up, and do a weave, the dimes just show up.

    No Dimes

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    Look at the first few posts of this thread of the dimes. I don't have the consistency or control ZTFab does, but you get the idea.

    David
    Last edited by David R; 08-03-2009 at 06:04 PM.
    Real world weldin.

    When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.

  8. #108
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    ZTFab,
    I am sorry and apologize; I went a bit overboard there. I still don't see the point of a laying down a whipping or weaving pass, unless it is to join different metal thicknesses and an unequal legged weld is called for.
    For the average fillet or corner weld my money is on smooth over rippled. The extra convexity on the face of the rippled weld represents metal that has absolutely no strength contribution to the weld.
    In the crevice of the radius of each ripple is a bit of that glass like light brown slag that represents just a little bit more effort to clean before painting; and if it isn't cleaned off one day it will pop off, with the paint on it. Then crevice corrosion has a nice happy place to live.
    Again, my apologies on the "professional" crack. I know you are a pro.
    Last edited by maarty; 08-03-2009 at 08:04 PM.

  9. #109
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    This thread is about HOW to get the look that ZTfab gets. It is not a debate over what is better or whatever anyone tries to make it. This originally started in another thread but got locked over people trying to force it to be about something other than what it is.

    HOW TO MAKE A MIG WELD LOOK LIKE THE ONES DONE BY ZTfab (or MIG like TIG).

    I would just like to see those interested in learning or teaching how to do this post and those that want to debate if it is the right thing to do or not to take their debate to another thread.

    It is the look that I was after when I started this topic in the other thread because it was a customer's demand and if I wanted the job I would have to make it look like ZTfab's welds.

    That job is on hold until I can get some practice and get it down. Nobody remotely suggests that it is the look of the weld only and that there does not need to be a good weld. A good weld made to look nice is what we are after. If you can assist me or others in learning to do this, or in my case just how to be perfectly consistent like ZTfab is, please post it. I can get the look but it is sloppy and I now need to learn to be robotic in my movements.

    Thanks,

    Bob



  10. #110
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Hey Bob....listen to some Styx while you weld.

    Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto!
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  11. #111
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    Re: Mig like Tig



    This is start and stop slight push angle. Slight chamfer on the part before welding.

    Pure Argon. What got me was that this weld I could do with some success, fighting gravity. Meaning it did not fall down to one side so much.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  12. #112
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    I reread what I wrote, it should have been, pause and go. Not start and stop. I never cut power to the welder. I just slow or pause for a second. Then move.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  13. #113
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Quote Originally Posted by maarty View Post
    The only reason to run a whipping pass with a mig torch is to control too high a heat output. A truly skilled welder sets the amps as high as possible and runs a super smooth bead without all those "tig like" ripples.

    What the ripples in these photos disguise is the inability to run a smooth and steady bead.
    I happen to think ZT"s welding looks like it was done by someone highly skilled! and if he"s getting paid for it, he can proudly call himself a professional! I also would"nt call those welds a disguise, they look perfect, no undercut, uniform, consistent. nice job!

  14. #114
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    I already said I was sorry. ZT put me in my place, and maybe you too should read the whole thread. As ZT already stated, there are aesthetic reasons for his choices. I have my own reasons for not liking them. My language was too strong, and again apologize.

  15. #115
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Quote Originally Posted by maarty View Post
    I already said I was sorry. ZT put me in my place, and maybe you too should read the whole thread. As ZT already stated, there are aesthetic reasons for his choices. I have my own reasons for not liking them. My language was too strong, and again apologize.
    Thanks for the apology maarty.

    The subject is closed IMO. Let's move on.
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  16. #116
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Thanks bro, cheers.

  17. #117
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    to me what looks pleasing to the eye in a weld is it being consistant, whether it be the stack of dimes or the slick smooth weld. I like to see both, but on a project they all need to be the same to look really good. Looks are only part of the job though, if the weld fails what does it matter how it looks. About the only time the weld is even noticed is by someone that welds whether pro or hobby guy.

    just my thinking

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  18. #118
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Last week I had the opportunity to tour several interesting motorsports related places around Charlotte, NC with the school's Motorsports Vehicle Technology program. Roush Fenway, Petty Driving Experience, and the Nascar Tech Center were among them. Except for TIG welding a few threaded inserts into theside of a tube, everything was MIG welded. More specifically, EVERYTHING on these cars had welds that look just like ZT's. I was actually very impressed at how consistent and well done all of the welding was. Proper fusion and penetration, not a defect to be seen. But, they had great starting points to work from. The tubing is all mild steel DOM, but it's all ground to size. All of the square and rectangular tube was also immaculately cleaned. There was not the slightest speck of mill scale on anything! Just another example of how important the prep work is in making a beautiful finished product.

    Unfortunately cameras were strictly outlawed in all of these areas; I wish I could have taken some close up pics of the welds!

  19. #119
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Last week I had the opportunity to tour several interesting motorsports related places around Charlotte, NC with the school's Motorsports Vehicle Technology program. Roush Fenway, Petty Driving Experience, and the Nascar Tech Center were among them. Except for TIG welding a few threaded inserts into theside of a tube, everything was MIG welded. More specifically, EVERYTHING on these cars had welds that look just like ZT's. I was actually very impressed at how consistent and well done all of the welding was. Proper fusion and penetration, not a defect to be seen. But, they had great starting points to work from. The tubing is all mild steel DOM, but it's all ground to size. All of the square and rectangular tube was also immaculately cleaned. There was not the slightest speck of mill scale on anything! Just another example of how important the prep work is in making a beautiful finished product.

    Unfortunately cameras were strictly outlawed in all of these areas; I wish I could have taken some close up pics of the welds!
    thats pretty cool, You will notice all of ZT's stuff is cleaned of mill scale. Since you turn down the heat a little it is so very important you aren't trying to burn through mill scale or any other stuff. Clean metal is best for all welding especially this.
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  20. #120
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Quote Originally Posted by S obsessed View Post
    thats pretty cool, You will notice all of ZT's stuff is cleaned of mill scale. Since you turn down the heat a little it is so very important you aren't trying to burn through mill scale or any other stuff. Clean metal is best for all welding especially this.
    90% of a good weld is in the prep.
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  21. #121

    Re: Mig like Tig

    the tubes I posted up a while back were 16th wall thickness, and stainless material, I used steel wire on a gas assisted mig, a friend of mine mentioned I should have used stainless wire instead, can anyone give me some info as to if that is true? I understand the concept of using the same filler to match the material you are welding but in this instance does it really matter?

  22. #122
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    DAMN!!!! these are nice. I hope to get like this some day soon

  23. #123
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    Damn!

    Those look great! ZTFab your my hero! What kind od rig are you running?

  24. #124
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    onehundreadoctaine, you SHOULD use SS filler on SS material. If you use steel the weld will not be as strong, and of corse will rust.
    keith
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  25. #125
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    Re: Mig like Tig

    I rememeber reading a Hobart instruction book that showed ZT's technique of welding in circles / lower case e's. The welds looked exactly like his do. (I think they did them with flux core also, not sure) If they're good enough for Hobart, they're good enough for me!
    Not trying to reopen the "those welds aren't proper argument" btw

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