Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 51
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    I was getting ready to undercoat my 2000 Ford Ranger and was banging rust off my frame with a 20oz hammer and found that I have a hole, it's about 1" long (see attached). The metal directly around it seems thin, but within an inch or two it goes back to pretty much normal. Behind this is where the "front gas tank" cross member mounts and that was rotted to hell, I just replaced that this weekend with a new one but I'm worried about the hole in the frame. If you traced a line straight up it would line up with the handle on the driver's side front door, so it's in the middle of the truck. Do you think this has substantially weakened my frame? Is it repairable? Dangerous to drive the truck? The passenger side of the frame looks damn near new which is weird.

    Of note, the discoloration at the bottom of the frame (like it is near the hole) continues about 12" on to the front and 10" to the rear like that, though the metal is in substantially better shape (thicker anyway).

    Name:  rangerrust.jpg
Views: 28095
Size:  47.5 KB

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    ny
    Posts
    6,206

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    I don't know what kind of overseas junk steel ford used on those trucks, but my dad folded his chassis straight down down behind the leaf spring perches backing up a log splitter on the same vehicle. His had 11,000mi on it. Upon inspection the whole frame was rotted to nothing. So bad he was afraid to drive it. He jacked it up back in place and traded it in the next day. There was not one mark on the whole truck, so it really took him by suprise. Don't know what to tell you there. It probably will spread like wild fire regardless.
    I hate being bi-polar it's awsome




    My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Costa Rica
    Posts
    2,324

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    merican exceptionalizzzm.
    You better get real serious with a grinder and see exactly what you actually have there. You can plate over but you've got to make sure there is something to plate TO. Something like this.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Bubble gum
    Tooth pix
    Duct tape
    Black glue
    GBMF hammer
    Screw gun --bad battery (see above)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    2,370

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Another ameture truck mechanic that says "Check the integrity of the rest of the frame!"

    I bought a 2003 F350 in 2012 and about 20% of the frame's steel was rust. It has since been cleaned, primed, reinforced, re-primed and painted as part of installing the dump body from my previous truck.

    At the start of each new season, the frame gets a review along with the brakes, suspension, etc.

    The poor truck only gets 2,000-2,500 miles/year of usage so oil changes are an annual affair along with the NY State inspection.
    Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.
    Welders:
    2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW
    2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW
    1970's Cobbled together O/A

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Pretty much what I was expecting to hear guys. I bought the truck 4 years ago and the first year I had it I had to have a friend fabricate 6" on either end of a crossmember. We cleaned the frame up and sprayed it with undercoating. It wasn't in great shape then. Since then it has held up fairly well with the exception of this one spot (I give it a good look every spring after winter and every fall before winter sets in). I'm hoping if I get it welded/patched then spray the whole frame with Fluid Film (lanolin based anti-rust oil), I can get a few more years out of it. Honestly should have sprayed it with something like that 4 years ago (and once a year since) instead of messing with reapplying regular undercoating every fall that just doesn't last OR protect very well.

    On question, some folks say that you shouldn't weld near or on the radius of the C-channel...is this true? If so I'm screwed since the rust is right near that bend...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NH no mo - MA now.
    Posts
    1,753

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Looks like damage from Central Maine road brime. You have some serious work ahead to clean that up and reinforce it before undercoating.

    - Mondo
    Member, AWS
    Lincoln ProMIG 140
    Lincoln AC Tombstone
    Craftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935
    Atlas MFC Horizontal Mill
    Craftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970
    - - -
    I'll just keep on keepin' on.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Central Indiana
    Posts
    5,305

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    As bad as that looks from here I say Junk it if you can afford to. Crossing lanes and kissing a semi head on when she goes is bad medicine.
    I've been everywhere but the electric chair, seen everything but the wind...the only two things I can't weld is the crack of dawn and a broken heart!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    6,954

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    My son's old Toyota truck has a hole in the frame on the passenger side that you can nearly punch your fist through. Toast.
    "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05
    Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3
    Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250
    SP-175 +
    Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)
    Lincwelder AC180C (1952)
    Victor & Smith O/A torches
    Miller spot welder

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    s/e ohio
    Posts
    1,095

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    I am ashamed to tell you guys about the 1983 nissan I worked on a few weeks ago.

    I wasnt even patching the frame. I was patch the patches someone ELSE patched over another set of patches

    Only reason I even touched it is the fact I know the guy and he only uses it on his farm. Never sees a public road.
    If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem.

    "Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish

  10. #10

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    If you do decide to plate it make sure to remove the rust and treat it with por 15 or something it prevent the hole from getting any bigger

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldendum View Post
    My son's old Toyota truck has a hole in the frame on the passenger side that you can nearly punch your fist through. Toast.
    Yeah, this is nowhere near that bad. I was hammering on it HARD with a 20 oz hammer and this was the worse I could get it to do. You can hear the difference between the thick metal and the thin stuff when you hit it too (easy to tell since the passenger side looks almost new). I bet it is because of salt, since around here they only salt the middle of the road the passenger side probably never gets much of it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    ny
    Posts
    6,206

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Do you park this truck in a heated garage?
    I hate being bi-polar it's awsome




    My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bemidji MN
    Posts
    14,105

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by larphead View Post
    I am ashamed to tell you guys about the 1983 nissan I worked on a few weeks ago.

    I wasnt even patching the frame. I was patch the patches someone ELSE patched over another set of patches

    Only reason I even touched it is the fact I know the guy and he only uses it on his farm. Never sees a public road.
    That's funny . I've cut out stuff like that before on a wrecker body!

    It's pretty scary thinking about what's on the road!

    Dave J.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by weldermike View Post
    Do you park this truck in a heated garage?
    Outside on gravel.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    ny
    Posts
    6,206

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecool85 View Post
    Outside on gravel.
    Ok, was just wondering if there was a heater maybe on that side that was reactivating the salt. Dads truck was kept outside all year long too. Just crappy steel I guess.
    I hate being bi-polar it's awsome




    My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Ok guys, so I still need to know, can we weld near the radius of the c-channel? What about on the lower "lip"? I've read that you shouldn't weld those areas of the frame. If we can't weld there, is it best to weld all other sides of the patch and leave that lower area unwelded? In this case it would be bolted on the lower lip anyway by 3 bolts (2 near the middle that hold the cross member and one near the end (rear of truck side, right side of this pic) that goes to the skid plate).

    I've attached a pic of a mockup plate I'd like to fabricate with a friend. It will be made out of 2" angle with 2" bar stock welded to the top while off the truck to make a 2" x 4" angle. 1/8" thick stock, regular mild steel. It will have the 3 bolts I talked about already in the lower 2" part of the angle as well as 3 smaller bolts in the upper 4" tall part that go through the frame to hold the fuel filter and some other clip.

    This patch would cover all of the discolored parts of the frame as well as the hole with a minimum of 1" overlap onto "normal" looking/sounding frame (in most areas MUCH more overlap than this).

    Name:  ranger-patch.jpg
Views: 27746
Size:  12.4 KB
    Last edited by joecool85; 10-08-2013 at 08:35 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    That might work for awhile, but I would consider using 1/4" material instead. Thicker if you can get it. You could use a piece of 6" "C" channel and cut off the top web and use that instead. The internal radius of the "C" would then fit snuggly aroung the radius of the frame for a tighter fit up. Just make sure to STOP all the rust in this area before you apply the patch. An O/A torch passed over the area will make the rust pop loose, then hit it with a wire brush cup to finish cleaning it. It doesn't need to be heated red hot for this to work, just enough to make the rust turn loose. Then use a good rust preventive primer over the whole area after the repair, maybe clean and primer the whole frame while your at it.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bistineau View Post
    That might work for awhile, but I would consider using 1/4" material instead. Thicker if you can get it. You could use a piece of 6" "C" channel and cut off the top web and use that instead. The internal radius of the "C" would then fit snuggly aroung the radius of the frame for a tighter fit up. Just make sure to STOP all the rust in this area before you apply the patch. An O/A torch passed over the area will make the rust pop loose, then hit it with a wire brush cup to finish cleaning it. It doesn't need to be heated red hot for this to work, just enough to make the rust turn loose. Then use a good rust preventive primer over the whole area after the repair, maybe clean and primer the whole frame while your at it.
    Of note, the frame was only 1/8" when new, so is there any reason to run 1/4" or thicker material? Seems I'd want it the same thickness as the base metal.

    Also, good idea with the c-channel...maybe I can source a small piece locally, that would work well. Still need to know whether to weld near the radius as well as the lower lip.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecool85 View Post
    Of note, the frame was only 1/8" when new, so is there any reason to run 1/4" or thicker material? Seems I'd want it the same thickness as the base metal.

    Also, good idea with the c-channel...maybe I can source a small piece locally, that would work well. Still need to know whether to weld near the radius as well as the lower lip.
    If it was my truck, I would use the 1/4" just for added peace of mind that I had enough material strength there to hold the load, more so than the original design. If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing on something like this. The added wieght difference is not going to be that great for this size of piece.
    I would weld it down the sides and across the bottom and call it good. Going around the bottom radius won't really be adding that much extra if you are worried about that. Weld along the top edge too.
    Last edited by Bistineau; 10-08-2013 at 09:38 AM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bistineau View Post
    If it was my truck, I would use the 1/4" just for added peace of mind that I had enough material strength there to hold the load, more so than the original design. If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing on something like this. The added wieght difference is not going to be that great for this size of piece.
    I would weld it down the sides and across the bottom and call it good. Going around the bottom radius won't really be adding that much extra if you are worried about that. Weld along the top edge too.
    Well, I ordered a piece of 6" 8.2lb c-channel. 36k just like my frame and 0.200" thick (frame was 0.120" stock I believe). 2' long section.

    So, are you saying I should or should not weld on the radius? What about the bottom lip, ok to weld to?

    Since I will need to cut the top edge off the c-channel (otherwise it wouldn't fit over anyway), should I cut some angles into it so it isn't a straight line? I've heard it is good to keep from 90 degree angles on frame welds.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Central Indiana
    Posts
    5,305

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    How's the brake lines? if you're driving on wet, gravel, limestone country roads, (limestone is an alkali) alkali is being thrown under the chassis by the front wheels and by splashing through puddles. I've had to replace my brake lines because of it, it would be smart to inspect every inch of brake line for rust.
    Last edited by tackit; 10-08-2013 at 09:48 AM.
    I've been everywhere but the electric chair, seen everything but the wind...the only two things I can't weld is the crack of dawn and a broken heart!

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecool85 View Post
    So, are you saying I should or should not weld on the radius? What about the bottom lip, ok to weld to?

    Since I will need to cut the top edge off the c-channel (otherwise it wouldn't fit over anyway), should I cut some angles into it so it isn't a straight line? I've heard it is good to keep from 90 degree angles on frame welds.
    If you are worried about welding on the radius, just skip that area and make sure it is welded in good along the other edges. As far as the 90* issue goes, that only applies to the corners of the patch, so it is NOT squared off to a 90*. Just cut this to a rounded radius or a 45* cut across the corner. I think the rounded would be better overall though.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Orange, TX
    Posts
    17,344

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    You're talking a Ford Ranger pickup (translation: go-cart) frame here not a Class 8 110ksi heat treated truck frame. You could bolt that c-channel on and be twice as strong as original.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    '68 Red Face Code #6633 project
    Star Jet 21-110

    Save Second Base!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Central Maine
    Posts
    132

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    You're talking a Ford Ranger pickup (translation: go-cart) frame here not a Class 8 110ksi heat treated truck frame. You could bolt that c-channel on and be twice as strong as original.
    That's kinda what I was thinking as well lol. Though it will be an L not a C when it goes on since the top flange will need to be removed to fit.

    So, I need to know, are horizontal welds ok on a frame? Just verts are a no-no? If so, I'm thinking we will cut the c-channel so it is 5" and cut the ends with 45 degree angles "fish plate" style, then weld straight across the top and on the 45's on the sides, leave the radius and bottom flange unwelded, then bolt the 2 cross member bolts through the bottom flange as well as the 1 for the skid plate. There will also be the couple other small bolts for those other items I mentioned earlier that will pass through the new c-channel section. Should we plug weld anywhere on this length? If so, any recommendations on where?

    Also, the frame will be ground, wire wheeled and sprayed with weld-through primer before this is done. The new steel will have weld through primer on the back side and then once on the truck we will prime and paint that section. The rest of the frame will be left as is because the Fluid Film sticks better to surface rust than it does paint and paint just doesn't last on the frame...at least not here in Maine.

    As to the brake lines, all but 3 have been redone in nickel, the remaining 3 are being done next Tuesday (also in nickel). I always look at fuel and brake lines as well as the frame before every winter and this year the 3 old brakes lines as well as the frame needed attention.

    Thanks for the help guys, let me know what you think about my plan.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Orange, TX
    Posts
    17,344

    Re: Rust hole in small truck frame, dangerous?

    The use of weld-through primer is probably OK but I would still go for clean, bare metal at the weld points and primer/paint over post weld.

    If you feel more comfortable not welding around the radius and on the flange then leave it. As for vertical-vs.-horizontal welds, to me it wouldn't make any difference on this type of frame although location of bead start/stop points should be the greater concern - i.e. don't start/stop at a corner. Start before and weld around it stopping away from the corner to avoid stress points. But again, this isn't much more than a stamped steel frame and the X-member bolts through the flanges testifies to that fact.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    '68 Red Face Code #6633 project
    Star Jet 21-110

    Save Second Base!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement