Learning to Stick Weld
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 63
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,485

    Learning to Stick Weld

    Acting upon suggestions that I seriously improve my stick welding consistency, I set out to learn and to practice. Here are the pictures and I await your comments and suggestions.

    According to the experts, I should keep notes of everything I do.
    At this moment, I am better at taking notes that at actual stick welding!
    What follows is a pictorial journey of my learning to date.

    According to the experts, the ultimate secret to successful welding appears to be knowledge of the weld ‘puddle’.
    A search of the ‘The Welding Web’ for the keyword, “puddle” brought up about 500 threads, about 100+ of these deal with stick welding. In these stick welding posts, the repeated suggestions for good stick welding appeared to be:

    1. PRACTICE! Begin by making many flat (1 G position) weld beads.
    2. Observe the effects of arc length. In general, short arc is way better than long arc. With drag rods such as 6013, 7014 and 7018, strive to always keep the rod in light contact with the work piece.
    3. Try different amperages to see what best suits your particular welding machine and specific welding rod – look for the slag to ‘pop off’ of 6013, 7014 and possibly 7018. Record your settings in a small field book as you go.
    4. Observe and record the effects of various travel speeds when laying down simple stinger beads with 6013, 7014 and 7018 or when whipping (or making little circles, etc.) with 6011 or 6010 type cellulous-coated rods.
    5. Observe and record the effects of rod angle to the work piece.
    6. With certain angles and rods that form a sleeve about the tip like 6013, 7014 and 7018, you may be able to maintain rod contact with the work piece and just slowly lower your hand as the rod burns off. This produces a smooth horizontal travel at a fixed deposition rate.
    7. WELD PUDDLE! Learn to see the weld puddle. Experts say this is the key to creating a controlled weld. However, opinion also says this is not so easy to learn – and it takes practice. It seems a lot is happening in ˝ inch about the tip of the rod – the arc, the weld puddle and the slag pool. So, after becoming familiar with the ball-park figures for arc length, amperage, travel speed and rod angle for a particular rod, focus on and manipulate the weld puddle.

    Point 1 - Practice
    Work Pieces
    I made a couple of work pieces out of 3/16 inch thick, 1.5 inch wide strips of mild steel.
    Each work piece is about 12 inches long by 6 inches wide.

    Electrodes
    All welding electrodes (rods) used here were 3/32 inch diameter. All were run electrode positive (+) [reverse polarity].
    6011 – No name brand from Princess Auto
    6013 – Forney
    7014 – BlueShield – Air Liquide
    7018AC – Lincoln Electric

    Welding Machine
    I choose to use a 120 volt, 20 amp input portable inverter welder (max output is 21 volts DC at 80 amps) simply because it is easier to move around than my 100 lb transformer machine. The inverter also has a precise indicator knob for setting the welding current. Here’s a picture of my portable inverter welder.
    Name:  Learn-1b.jpg
Views: 6112
Size:  75.2 KB

    Point 2 – Arc Length
    I already learned many times – keep the arc length short! SHORT!
    Beginners, like me, make this mistake of ‘Arc Too Long’!
    Want proof – check out my old thread, “My Welds Don’t Stick” at http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=5330
    In that thread, by far the most useful thing I found was a series of color photos (see attached) from the Miller site at http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ps/stick_tips/
    Name:  Learn-2c.jpg
Views: 6115
Size:  30.0 KB
    ‘Arc too long’ is not good. Far better to stick a few rods than to paint welds in the air – no arc flames!
    The weld metal will not adhere to the work piece and the work piece will be covered with globs of metal & black slag.
    Not a pretty sight!

    Point 3 – Different Amperages
    I had four types of 3/32 inch diameter electrodes available and I wanted to see how they worked at different amperages and how they compared to each other. were run electrode positive (+) [reverse polarity]. Pictures to follow...
    Note: In a picture taken with a single lens camera, you lose the stereo effect that allows your mind to simultaneously perceive the height and width of the bead. The best I could do here is to provide two photos:
    a) Top photo: a high oblique view that shows weld bead width, and
    b) Bottom photo: a low oblique view that shows weld bead height.

    Warning... the following pictures are intended for mature audience members only. If signs of nausea, gagging, vomiting, headache, or hysterical laughter should persist for more than one hour, be advised to consider medical attention.

    Here’s the results of welding (from top to bottom) with:
    >Top - flat....Weld #1: 6011 3/32” at.... 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 amps.
    > Mid- flat....Weld #2: 6013 3/32” at.... 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 amps.
    > Mid-flat.....Weld #3: 7014 3/32” at.... 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 amps.
    >Bottom flat Weld #4: 7018AC 3/32” at 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 amps.
    Name:  Learn-3a.jpg
Views: 6151
Size:  141.6 KB
    I warned you they were nasty... yep, at the low end of the learning curve. But that’s the purpose of the thread, to start at the beginning and learn to improve.

    Let’s assume that I was relatively consistent with whatever inconstancies I had during the welding process here.
    After examining the welds, I made up a chart of my observations for each electrode-amperage.
    Name:  Learn-4a.jpg
Views: 6111
Size:  50.3 KB
    In addition, I offer the following.
    a) 6011: The 3/32 inch electrode worked well from 60 to 80 amps, with the bead becoming progressively lower and wider as the amperage increased. It made nice beads at 70 – 80 amps.
    b) 6013: The 3/32 inch electrode worked well from 60 to 70 amps, with the bead becoming vividly lower and wider as the amperage increased until at 80 amps where I felt the bead was too wide. The slag popped off at 70 amps. According to the experts, that’s a sign of being in the right amperage range – and the weld bead is smooth.
    c) 7014: I didn’t like the 3/32 inch 7014 electrode at any amperage; maybe because it laid down a lot of metal quickly. Perhaps I was moving too slowly but all my weld beads seemed high, like frozen waves. I felt 7014 was just starting to work for me at 80 amps – the limit of my inverter welder. This suggests that I might not have enough amperage/heat input to use this electrode to make say a fillet weld.
    d) I liked the way the 3/32 inch 7018AC electrode was able to maintain a very stable arc at a low 50 amps. It seems a nice rod to run in the 60 – 70 amp range. Going to 80 amps seemed to produce only little change from 70 amps.

    In the following series of trials, I run the rod at their optimum amperage and look at the effects of:

    Point 4 – Travel Speed
    Observe and record the effects of various travel speeds when laying down simple stinger beads with 6013 and 7018 and when whipping (or making little circles, etc.) with 6011.

    Point 5 – Rod Angle
    Observe and record the effects of rod angle to the work piece. With certain angles and rods that form a sleeve about the tip like 6013 and 7018, I may be able to maintain rod contact with the work piece and just slowly lower my hand as the rod burns off. This produces a smooth horizontal travel at a fixed deposition rate.

    ... to be continued in next post
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,485

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Here’s the first 4 or 5 beads welding with 7018AC, 7014, 6013 and 6011 in the 1 G position (flat).
    Name:  Learn-5a.jpg
Views: 6090
Size:  146.9 KB
    By the time I made the last of the welds with 6013, 7014 and 7018, I realised that occasionally I could run a smooth, good profile bead. Tricks to success appeared to be:
    a) I found that wearing cheap dollar-store ‘reading glasses’ under the hood forced me to get in close – 10 inches from glasses to the weld. This force-focussed my eyes and attention on the area of the weld puddle and magnified all motion of the rod tip... so I was more careful to move slowly and try to maintain a weld pool of constant diameter.
    b) Once the arc was established, I placed just enough pressure on the rod tip against the work piece so that the ceramic coating ‘sleeve’ at the rod tip crumbled as the rod burned. With the rod angled to the right (direction of my welding), this automatically moved the rod tip to the right at a constant rate, yielding a constant amount of weld deposition as the tip travelled across the surface.

    Burning some more rod on the same work piece...
    Name:  Learn-6a.jpg
Views: 6083
Size:  140.0 KB

    Here’s some close-ups of the welds made with the various electrodes.

    Progression with 7018AC.
    Name:  Learn-7a 7018.jpg
Views: 6083
Size:  144.8 KB
    I found 7018 a challenge. Weld 1, 2 and 3 were rough. The last 2/3rds of weld 4, the short weld 5 and weld 6 were improving, getting smoother - still a mite ‘proud’... but then came welds 7, 8 and 9 where I got lumpy again.

    Progression with 7014.
    Name:  Learn-8a 7014.jpg
Views: 6068
Size:  136.0 KB
    At the beginning, I didn’t like 7014. My first welds (1, 2, 3 and 4) were quite lumpy and the slag was difficult to remove.
    However, then came weld 5; it went down so smooth and the slag just popped off. By now I was using ‘reading glasses’ and the pressure-tip-crumble technique. In weld 6, I travelled faster and got a thin bead. In weld 7, I slowed down. In welds 8 and 9 I went slower and smoothly and attained some nice beads.

    ... to be continued in the next post.
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,485

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    6013 Progression
    Name:  Learn-9a 6013.jpg
Views: 6047
Size:  116.3 KB
    6013 started out pretty ugly – welds 1 and 2. Weld 3 lay down smoothly (easy slag removal) – if a mite narrow. The weld 4 was smooth in the middle. Welds 5 and 6 were real smooth. Next day I made weld 7! Looks like I forgot most everything I learned the day before. Ok I concentrated and I made weld 8 followed by little ‘smoothy’ weld 9. After my morning coffee, I kaid down the ugly weld 10! Jeez... there is no forgiveness in stick welding! Just because you laid down a great weld one hour ago doesn’t mean you can relax. I learned that I have to concentrate & focus all the time, watch the puddle - maintain the puddle width, make all my motions... in ‘Slow Motion’.

    6011 Progression
    Name:  Learn-10a  6011.jpg
Views: 6019
Size:  141.0 KB
    Welding with 6011 is totally different from welding with 6013, 7014 or 7018 as you can’t drag the 6011 rod and you must maintain the arc gap yourself. On the other hand, the weld pool is easily visible because the slag pool is much reduced. Welds 1 through 4 are much the same although I made little circles in 1, 3 and 3 and made a liner-whipping motion in weld 4. In Weld 5, I made no circles and did not whip the rod; I just focussed on going slow and trying to maintain a constant width weld puddle. I moved a little faster in weld 6. Welds 5 and 6 seem to be my present limit.

    The challenge for me with 6011 is to maintain a short and even arc. If the arc gets even a little long, it seems to slightly undercut the edge of the weld. This can also happen if the rod is slightly canted toward or away from me. It’s not the very slight undercut that is a problem; it’s that it traps slag tenaciously! You can still see remnants of slag were the weld meets the work piece.


    I’m not certain what to do next. I need to know where you think I am... and what I should do next?
    • Practice some more?
    • Try another position - say horizontal (2G) ?
    • Change to 1/8 inch rod and my 140 amp DC transformer welder?

    I’m open to your comments and suggestions.
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    161

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    One thing that I would recommend Rick, is help kick start the learning curve a little bit is to concentrate on a specific rod till you get that baby looking and running great.

    I would recommend you run either the 7014 or 7018 (prob the 7018) and once you get your amps dialed in just keep running beads. Maybe take your coupons (3 should do?) and run only 1 rod type again and again. By the time you get finished burning through 2-3lbs or rod things should start coming together for you. At that point take what you have learned and try it with a different type of rod.

    I am an amateur myself, but from what I have learned so far i think the easiest order to learn in would be:
    7018
    7014
    6013
    and then 6010 or 6011

    Some people say 6010/11 is the best to learn with, but personally I still have trouble running that electrode. Probably due to the fact that i have only burned less than a lb of it vs tens of lbs of the 7018/7014/6013

    Hope this helps.

    Also, I would not try any other positions until you have the flat position with all of the previous mentioned rods mastered.
    Last edited by ggarner; 09-06-2010 at 04:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    11,095

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Seems like positive progress

    7014............stringers 5 and 9 were good, 9 being the BEST

    7018.......... stringer 6 is good.

    Consistency will come with more practice.

    The small inverter is hard to run from the limited experience I had while on vacation. The one I ran had difficulty keeping the rod lit, and the heat wasn't too hot. If you can learn to do decent welds with the little inverter, you'll be pleasantly surprised when you run the same rods on a more powerful transformer machine, or portable welder.

    "Any day above ground is a good day"

    http://www.farmersamm.com/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    BULVERDE, TX.
    Posts
    1,474

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Well, for starters, your machine is too small for the 7018. You need to be starting at 80a rather than ending up there. The 7018 should start around 90 minimum. I know they say it can be done, but actual practice says differently. Get another machine and turn it up and see if it doesn't get much much better.
    QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ca, USA
    Posts
    5,211

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    7014, 7018 and 7024 all like to run at higher current than 6010, 6011 and 6013, for the same rod diameter.

    General rule of thumb, with 7014, 7018 and 7024, is set one amp per 1/1000th inch of rod diameter. So a 3/32" (.093") 7018, etc, runs around 90-100 amps.

    The 6010/11 rods run about one rod diameter less in current than 7018 (1/16", or .064"), so around 60-70 amps is good for 3/32" 6010/11. If you jump up to 1/8" 6010/11, you can run them at about the same current as a 3/32" 7018.

    The gist of what I'm saying here is that most of your 7014 and 7018 beads look cold and most of your 6011 beads look about right for heat. This is probly partly why you're having greater success with the 6011, you have enough heat to run it. You don't have enough heat to run the 7014 and 7018 in most of your tests except the 80 amp beads, as they are closer to optimum heat range. The last few beads in your last 7014 test are looking better, probly because the plate was already heated up by then and not as much current needed to make the weld.
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    1,038

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Rick,
    Its easy to see improvement over your previous posts. I fear you may be over analyzing, or just playing with too many different scenarios. My suggestion is to run 6010 and perfect it, then all other rods will be remarkably easy to run. Same rod, over and over and over. Correct one thing at a time, rod angle, travel speed etc... Your posts are so long, and I will admit that I dont read most of it (sorry). It seems like you are trying to correct too many things at once.
    I think you are doing well.
    Have fun.
    UA Local 598

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,764

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    I think part of your problem is your focusing too much on trying to literally "drag" the electrode on the plate. It can be done, but you need to be able to maintain the arc gap by yourself. Learn it that way first, then take the shortcuts.
    Have we all gone mad?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    20,241

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRider33 View Post
    The last few beads in your last 7014 test are looking better, probly because the plate was already heated up by then and not as much current needed to make the weld.

    That was my first thought when I noticed his beads got better as he went along. It's a common thing I've seen with guys learning. They keep running beads on the same piece and the heat build up acts like they've cranked up the amps.

    I know the small machine is "easy" to use, but you need more amps as mentioned before. Try to work with several practice pieces so they can cool between runs. Dip them in water to speed the process, though this is a bad habit for actual welds. If you can pick up the metal bare handed, it's cool enough that it won't "change" the machine settings.


    All in all you are improving. I'm glad to see you are taking the previous criticism the right way and working to improve your welds.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cassville, Missouri
    Posts
    2,111

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    With the above advice try run most rods at 1/2 to1 rod diameter, 1 to 1 1/2 diameters for 6010/6011. Try running 7014 straight polarity instead of reverse.
    Tough as nails and damn near as smart

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Galesburg, il USA
    Posts
    1,683

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Looks better Rick.

    I agree with all the above, it's hard to give advice on technique when the rod and machine are overmatched and beaten from the start.

    If you narrow down to one rod and run some open butt or lap welds with 12 or 14ga I think you will get more comfortable with both the small rods you have and your inverter.

    To use the little inverter with 6013 or 7014 below 80 amps with 7ga (3/16") the part needs warmed up or the heavy slag rods just won't work well. I'm not a fan of 3/32" 7018 below 80-85amps. At least with a warmed part 300-500F max, you could practice multipass or lap joint type stick welding.

    I also wonder if sn0border and tresi aren't real close on you being to short with the arc length. It's just hard to call from the pics.


    Keep it going!

    Matt

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    144

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    I think that you may be making life hard for yourself by trying to learn to weld with anything except 6013 (or maybe the 7014?) with that welding set... I doubt that it has the 80v OCV required to run a 7018 properly or even the 60v required for the 6010 (not sure what OCV is required for the 14's as I never use them). Maybe you should drag out the 100lb'er and practice with that?

    PS. keep up the good work, practice makes perfect!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,485

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

    • 5 people said use a bigger welder (farmersamm, DDA52, DesertRider33, 7A749, Matt_Maguire)
    • 3 people said pick one rod and deal with it; ggarner for 7018, WHughes and 7A7492 for 6010
    • 3 people commented on the hotter work piece improving later welds (DesertRider33, DSW and Matt_Maguire).
    • DSW suggested cooling the work piece between welds and Matt_Maguire suggested heating up the work piece to 300-500F before welding.
    • 3 people suggested my arc may have been too short when dragging 6013, 7014 and 7018 (tresi, sn0border88, Matt_Maguire).
    • 1 person suggested that 1 run 7014 as electrode negative (-), straight polarity, instead of electrode +.

    Before I change over to a bigger welder and pick one rod to work with, I want to address some of the other expressed concerns:
    • 7014 negative versus 7014 positive,
    • effects of heating/cooling the work piece on the welds, and
    • short/medium arc length versus draggin the rod.

    Here are the results...
    Name:  Learn-11a 7014.jpg
Views: 5715
Size:  112.8 KB
    7014 electrode + versus 7014 electrode -
    The temperature was 78 degrees F on the work piece when I started welding weld #1 with electrode (+) and dragging the rod. I had used about 2/3rds the rod when I hit the right edge of the work piece. Pausing for a moment, I returned to the left side of the work piece to lay down (dragging) the rest of the rod as weld #2.
    I used a fan to cool down the work piece back down to 78 degrees – verified with a hand-held infra-red temperature gun.
    The temperature was 78 degrees F on the work piece when I began welding weld #3 with electrode (-) and dragging the rod. Again, I had used about 2/3rds the rod when I hit the right edge of the work piece. Pausing for a moment, I returned to the end of weld #2, left a gap and laid down (dragging) the rest of the rod as weld #4.
    Welds #2 and #4 look better than welds #1 and #3. This could be an effect of heating the work piece... or my finding it easier to manipulate the shorter rods – remnants of rods 1 and 3. (What is the scope of my inconsistency?)

    78 versus 400 degrees F
    I then directed a blow torch flame under the weld area until the area over which I was to weld was from 380 to 420 degrees F. Using a fresh rod, laid down weld #5 with electrode (-) and dragging the rod. Immediately after I changed to a fresh rod, changed polarity, checked the weld area temperature waiting briefly for it to cool to 400 F and then laid down weld #6 with electrode (+) and dragging the rod. Note: The same amount of rod was deposited in weld 5 and 6.
    Weld #6 (electrode +) looks better than weld #5 (electrode -). (What is the scope of my inconsistency?)
    Weld #6 looks ‘hotter made’ (higher temp or higher amps) than most the other welds on the work piece.

    Short/medium arc versus dragging the rod
    I used a cooling fan to reduce the work piece temperature to 78 degrees F.
    Using electrode (+), I tried to lay down a slow-wide bead while dragging the rod; this was weld #7. To me it appears a mite lumpy/cold.
    I used a cooling fan to return the temperature of the work piece to 78 degrees F.
    Using electrode (+), I tried to lay down a slow-wide bead this time using a short/medium arc (not dragging the rod); this is weld #8. I focussed on maintaining a constant width of the weld puddle. To me, this appears to be the best looking weld – showing a broad bead with good low profile; it doesn’t look cold.
    Note: The same amount of rod was deposited in weld 7 and 8.

    Conclusions
    It’s tricky to try to draw too many conclusions... because of the varying scope of my inconsistency.
    However, it does seem to appear that:
    • 7014 negative versus 7014 positive? Hard to say which is better, could be one or the other.
    • Effect of heating/cooling the work piece on the welds? Hotter work piece seems to create a better looking weld - all else being the same.
    • Longer than ‘drag’ arc length? Clearly this had the most visible effect and positive effect - see Weld #8. (Applause for tresi, sn0border88 and Matt_Maguire!)


    Comments, suggestions?
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    20,241

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    The reason I suggested cooling the work piece is so you start with material thats all the same base line. It's often not practical to heat the piece up. A weld on "hot" metal will act like you upped the amps on the machine vs the same weld on a "cold" piece.

    Preheating is standard for many welds, but it's usually done for other reasons than trying to push a small machine to a higher level.



    There's really only one way to gain consistency. Thats to burn LOTS of rods. At some point you'll hit that "AH HA!" moment and everything will be down hill from there.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ca, USA
    Posts
    5,211

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    I held my tongue when I read the suggestion to use electrode negative. DC stick welding is generally done in reverse polarity, electrode positive. Straight polarity (DCEN) is usually used to decrease penetration and burn-through on thinner metals. This is the opposite effect from what you're looking for with your small machine trying to weld thicker metal. For your general welding purposes, use electrode positive, unless you're trying to weld sheet metal.
    MM350P/Python/Q300
    MM175/Q300
    DialarcHF

    HTP MIG200
    PowCon300SM

    Hypertherm380
    ThermalArc185
    Purox oa
    F350CrewCab4x4
    LoadNGo utilitybed
    Bobcat250
    XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic
    Suitcase12RC/Q300
    Suitcase8RC/Q400
    Passport/Q300

    Smith op

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,485

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Interestingly, using 80 amps I tried the same longer than ‘drag’ arc length with my 3/32 inch 7018AC rods. No dice! While it seemed that I could get the 7018AC weld a mite broader and a little flatter, I lost some consistency in laying down a smooth weld of constant bead width/height. AND... if I momentarily long-arced it, I either got slag inclusions or in the worst case - porosity. To me, it seems that 7018AC does not have the same degree of wiggle room on arc length possessed by 7014.
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    O.C. CA
    Posts
    772

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Rick V,

    I think you've had a couple of good threads on you wanting to improve your stick abilities and been able to keep an open mind on receiving critizism. Good job on that. I do think your worring about to many details when it will be easier to concentrate on less details.

    When possible use a bigger welder, it is easier to start out on the hot side and then dial it down vs working your way up. There is no set amperage that is going to work for any giving rod, there are to many variables such as weldment size, welder's skills, machine and the rod itself. But for 3/32 7018 would be 85 to 95 amps.

    Pick one rod, 7018 master it first before moving on to another rod like 6010. Put 6013 and 7014 on the back burner and forget about them.

    Get some 2x2 1/4" angle and cut it into 6" lengths. Set these up like if you were doing a corner weld and start filling with weld. Lap your welds by half and stack your beads in a proper sequence and if you feel daring practice some start and stops along the way. Having a few pieces of angle will allow you to rotate them to keep them from overheating. You should measure your progress in hood time, so maybe go by hour increments then post your progress.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Galesburg, il USA
    Posts
    1,683

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Rick V said:

    Matt_Maguire suggested heating up the work piece to 300-500F before welding
    Sorry Rick, I stated that badly.

    What I was thinking is you could practice lap welds with 2 or 3 small coupons welding 50% into the last bead and keep the rod practice going without waiting for cooling to room temps by swapping coupon, remove slag and burn.

    Real world welding using the little inverter with 3/16 and up is going to involve warming the part for everything but vert-up. You need to get happy with the little machine and the rod before good things will happen.

    Looking at your coupon (attention to the short rod welds) it appears you are less downhand and the bead/crater shape look much better. This is where a section would make sense to you. More downhand angle = more energy and wash back into the puddle with less penetration, closer to 90° = more heat to the coupon and correct underbead profile for the rod.

    I really like 7014 for learning as too short an arc = ugly slag and bead, too long = bad undercut with wandering arc. I expect you have already discovered that touching the side of the rod against anything grounded starts the arc there... Once you learn it you can weld open butts with silly large gaps and the rod way below parameters.

    Matt

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Galesburg, il USA
    Posts
    1,683

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    I should also ask... Are you right handed welding left to right here with your head on the slag side?

    Matt

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,485

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire View Post
    I should also ask... Are you right handed welding left to right here with your head on the slag side?Matt
    Thanks Matt... Right handed welding left to right and yes head on the slag side (left side of the rod).
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,485

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Before moving on to the larger output welder, I will close the chapter on welding with my small welder(s).

    I made some more beads with 3/32 inch rods using the CTC inverter welder (input 115 volts @ 20 amps, output 21 volts @ 80 amps 30% duty cycle).
    I also made a few welds using an older small transformer welder that I had modified for more output (input 230 volts @17 amps, output 22 volts @ ~90 amps 10% duty cycle).
    Name:  Learn-12a.jpg
Views: 5539
Size:  13.1 KB
    Here are the results of welding with the various small welders using a variety of 3/32 inch rods.
    Name:  Learn-12b.jpg
Views: 5562
Size:  121.1 KB
    Observations - Small Welders:
    My best welds with 3/32 inch rod were obtained using:
    • 6011 @ 70 amps (see previous figure ‘6011 Progression’ welds 5 and 6),
    • 6013 DC+ 80 amps medium arc length (above figure weld 4) – rod burns hotter with medium arc, not drag
    • 7014 DC+ 80 amps medium arc length (above figure weld 13) – rod burns hotter with medium arc, not drag

    My 7018AC welds even at 80 amps always stood rather 'proud', looking a mite cold – rod seemed to burn the same with drag or medium.
    The inverter welder considerably outperformed the small xformer-based AC welder: much easier starts, smoother less angry and far more controllable arc. This was really dramatic with 6011 – very little arc control.

    If I had only had the small 80 amp inverter welder with 3/32 inch rod, I would be limited to using 6011, 6013 and 7014. (7018AC always looked proud & cold.)

    Thanks for your suggestions and encouragement.

    Moving on to a bigger welder – the 100 lb’er!
    Rick V

    1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR
    3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel
    1 Lincoln MIG PAK 15
    1 Oxy-Acet

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    1,038

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Already looking way better, just keep burning!
    UA Local 598

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Galesburg, il USA
    Posts
    1,683

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick V View Post
    Thanks Matt... Right handed welding left to right and yes head on the slag side (left side of the rod).
    Alrighty then... Try welding from right to left with the weld moving towards your eyes and the slag on the back side. Keep the rod more or less at 90° and post back after a while. Make a soapstone line or something for reference and follow it for practice.

    Matt
    Last edited by Matt_Maguire; 09-09-2010 at 07:35 AM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Okanagan Valley.
    Posts
    876

    Re: Learning to Stick Weld

    I have a trick for making straight welds on plate that may help you out quite a bit (it works great for hard surfacing patterns!)

    Lay an angle iron with the point up on the plate about 1/2" away from where you're welding. You can use it as a guide.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement