Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 85
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lansing, MI
    Posts
    6,144

    Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Ok, the title is somewhat confusing......

    I made this little set of gussets yesterday for a snow plow I'm putting together for a guy. 3/8" carbon steel.

    The thread isn't really about gussets tho. Not at all.

    See, on several occasions I have heard inexperienced people both here (and a couple geniuses I worked for) go on & on about how clean cuts cannot be made with standard oxy fuel equipment. Most of these individuals rave about how they "need" a plasma cutter or some expensive metal cutting circular saw. My former employer flat out said "You can't make clean cuts with torches". I just walked away. No telling him anything.

    Dumbass.

    He spent thousands on plasma equipment, fancy saws & just as much in labor having untrained operators haul the stuff around to jobsites to do tasks oxy fuel would be ideal for.

    I guess all those pipe guys who have been cutting saddles & junctions into pipe with paper templates, by hand with oxy fuel for decades & decades have no clue what they're doing.............

    Those tools do indeed, have their uses & for such, work very well. On non ferrous materials, oxy fuel is out besides & if a user does almost exclusively NF, plasma's the way to go. However, with proper regulator settings, a CLEAN, CORRECT size cutting tip & some patience, very, very clean, precise cuts in carbon steel can be made using oxy fuel.

    I prolly could have made them cleaner (carpal tunnel & nerve damage have done wonders for my manual dexterity), & have seen better, but these were done with just a tad bit of preheat, a straightedge & very minimal cleanup with an 80 grit sanding belt. Victor combo set, 00 Tip, about 7 PSI Acetylene 30 Oxy.

    You can see even the drops in the last pic are reasonably clean & edges not blown out or gouged up. I plan on using them too & since I took my time making the cuts, cleanup will be a piece of cake & I don't have to use more material for it either.

    Oxy fuel is still one of the best & cheapest methods for cutting carbon steel in the shop or field & has almost unlimited uses in heating & welding as well.

    Ok, rant over...... LMAO.
    Last edited by 7A749; 11-16-2011 at 10:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Orange, TX
    Posts
    17,340

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Couldn't agree more Steve.

    I've seen some pretty bad plasma cuts (don't ask who made them ) so it's not the process it's the operator and equipment condition in either case as you've pointed out.

    Personally, I'd much rather cut a bearing race off an axle shaft with O/A than a plasma cutter due to the differences in control so for me the application is as or more important.

    Nice cuts. Samm is another who is very skilled at O/A cutting as well.
    MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus - LP/NG
    MUTT Suitcase Wirefeeder
    WC-1S/Spoolmatic 1
    HF-251D-1
    PakMaster 100XL
    '68 Red Face Code #6633 project
    Star Jet 21-110

    Save Second Base!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    20,241

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Very nice there Steve. I'll add a few picts to what can be done with Oxy fuel if the settings are perfect. These are a few of the "raw" 3/8" coupons from the tech school the other day for practice. I will admit they were cut with a track torch, but compare these to some of Jim's cuts on his CNC plasma and there's not a lot of difference between the two if you get your settings right. the real tight pict the dime is out of focus, but the cut is in focus. The cut lines are that small that it looks fuzzy. I picked the one cut at the start end, just so you could see there wasn't any touch up to the cut.
    Last edited by DSW; 11-16-2011 at 10:32 AM.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Texas Near Dallas
    Posts
    1,075

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    My cut quality is about the same between O/A and plasma.

    I do prefer the plasma only because you pick up the torch, pull trigger, cut, and lay the torch down. No adjusting the flame, no pause for preheating, no setting things on fire when you set the torch down. The plasma is just a little faster in overall operation. The plasma also does better on sheet metal (could just be the operator).

    The plasma is only in the shop. All my portable cutting is O/A. Which means about 60% of all my cutting is O/A.

    Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1
    MM210
    MM Vintage
    ESAB miniarc161lts
    Lincoln AC225
    Victor O/A, Smith AW1A
    Cutmaster 81
    IR 2475N7.5FP
    Rage3
    Jancy USA101
    9" SB
    AEAD-200LE

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,900

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Great post Steve.

    I prefer an O/A to any cutting tool in the shop.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    368

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    iwas just thinking about this the other day. i was in my welding class last week and the instructor cut a collar off of a piece of 10" pipe with out touching the threads. he used a torch with a gouging tip to do this. very precise cut. torches to me seem so simple and more versatile compoared to plasma. a good torch set is on my short list of tools i need for sure.

    nerve damage or not, thats a steady hand. nice cuts.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Wv near ohio river
    Posts
    237

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Quote from first post
    "Most of these individuals rave about how they "need" a plasma cutter or some expensive metal cutting circular saw"

    I think the band saw got left out of this. Now if you put a bevel on it or a double bevel I probably wouldn't even have posted here but a solid table or some sort of sawhorse and plank to clamp your work to and a portable band saw which only needs an electric cord and no fire watch and probably not any cool down time for these pieces I suspect would't get blown away too bad.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Goochland, Va.
    Posts
    649

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Thanks for the pictures - great to see. If anyone wants to see how cuts should NOT look let me know and I'll post them

    I forced myself to learn OA welding first before I bought an electric welder and I have found that to have been a great approach. For a weekend welder I really don't believe I could justify the expense of plasma - OA adds so much to my shop abilities that it seems like a no brainer for those of us with "constrained capital resources".
    Hobart LX235
    Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)
    Bobcat 773
    F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailer
    Outdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Soda springs,Id
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    Couldn't agree more Steve.

    I've seen some pretty bad plasma cuts (don't ask who made them ) so it's not the process it's the operator and equipment condition in either case as you've pointed out.

    Personally, I'd much rather cut a bearing race off an axle shaft with O/A than a plasma cutter due to the differences in control so for me the application is as or more important.

    Nice cuts. Samm is another who is very skilled at O/A cutting as well.
    I agree, Duane, on the bearing races. I always like to use the scarfing tip. I've found there's a lot less chance of gouging the shaft.
    I've tried for several yrs to justify the purchase of a plas, but just can't see it for what I do as a hobbyist and fixing things for relatives, friends and neighbors.
    Mike
    Ol' Stonebreaker
    "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"

    Miller 175 mig
    Miller thunderbolt ac/dc stick
    Victor O/A setup
    Makita chop saw

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,273

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    OA/OP gear is a great investment. I have torches older than I am (52) which were well-used and still work fine.

    If I had a bunch of sheet metal to cut I'd get a plasma, but pneumatic recip saws and other less-expensive tools handle the level I do nicely and without sparks. My cuts aren't as purty as the pics in this thread, but they'll do and don't require much grinding.

    A plasma can't conveniently follow me to salvage yards etc. A BBQ LP jug and an oxygen cylinder do just fine.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,842

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Ill stick to my plasma cutter... I find it easier to use than OA, plus its a hell of a lot cheaper to run. Beats going to another state and paying insane prices for gas.

    Its also easier to use a straight edge with, I find.
    [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    red rock country
    Posts
    263

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Reading this thread and seeing those pics are great. I'm picking up a new Smith oxy fuel set next week. I'm going to be spending some time learning the cutting side of these things. I'm going to practice on some 1/8inch, 18 and 16 gauge I've got lying around. Gonna see if I can make a few little Christmas presents (flowers, and butterfly's stuff like that for the wifes garden)
    I also picked up a milwaukee PortaBand today at a pawn shop for $90.
    The older I get, the more I appreciate simple ways of doing thing, oxy fuel falls into that category for me.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    393

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    I also like Oxy. for cutting bearings off, it doesn't go through multiple layers of steel as easily as plasma.

    If the cut is poor no matter the apparatus, if it's in good working order, the operator is to blame.
    Leo

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shamrock, TX
    Posts
    2,755

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    I agree totally. I use OA for anything over 1/4" and will use it on 1/4" if I want the cleanest cut I can get. The plasma is just a bit faster on the 1/4" so I often use it there for the time savings. Don't think I'm using OA because my plasma is small either. I've got a Powermax 1250 so even 1" is within my plasma's capability. But I can cut 1" faster and cleaner with a torch and on 1/2" the torch cut is cleaner and just as fast as the plasma.

    I must rant at the moment though. I've just gotten some new tips for my Purox torch and I don't like the way they're made. One of the great things about the Purox torches was that the tips where swagged after drilling making for a smooth tapered ports on the tips.
    This made for a much better cut quality. The new tips are step drilled like Victor and don't cut as well.

    I'm also of two minds on mechanical torches. I've used track and pattern torches in the past and for some things they're great. However I feel that good hand control of the torch can save so much time that it's a must have skill. Setting up track and pattern torches of any type takes time and time is money. I also don't like straight edges. I've tried lots of methods of guiding a torch and nearly all of them cause enough drag that it's impossible to keep the smooth travel needed to make a truly smooth cut.
    Millermatic 252
    XMT 304's
    Dynasty 280DX
    Hypertherm PowerMax 1250
    Miller Trailblazer 302 EFI
    Optima Pulser
    XR feeder and XR Edge gun
    and more at
    http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Marlborough, The Peoples Republik of MA
    Posts
    3,559

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Nice clean OA burn, I have done it.
    Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,273

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    I must rant at the moment though. I've just gotten some new tips for my Purox torch and I don't like the way they're made. One of the great things about the Purox torches was that the tips where swagged after drilling making for a smooth tapered ports on the tips.

    This made for a much better cut quality. The new tips are step drilled like Victor and don't cut as well.
    DO contact ESAB and post their answer.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Boyle-Ft.McMurray
    Posts
    512

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Of course it is a little hard dragging a plasma cutter around the back of a rig and keeping it clean in the winter, so it has to be considered an indoor machine, O/a wins out for mobility.I cannot imagine cutting a bearing race off with a plasma cutter and keeping the shaft intact, but love the control and repetive nature of the plasma cutter if you can afford one.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY Catskill Mountains
    Posts
    229

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Nice cuts! I can cut ok up to about 1/2", but when it comes to 1" it gets ugly fast......I use a larger tip and more psi .......but I think its me not having experience with thicker metal....

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shamrock, TX
    Posts
    2,755

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    DO contact ESAB and post their answer.
    Doubt I'll have time during the day at the moment. We're pretty well slammed with work right now.

    I did take a couple of quick shots of flame cuts with my cell phone this week. Just now getting time to post them. Both are as cut with no clean up other than pulling back onto the table which knocks off and loose slag. The second is one continuous cut with no stops. Both are 1/2" stock. I must admit to being shaky on the first batch. Not feeling to well that morning.
    Millermatic 252
    XMT 304's
    Dynasty 280DX
    Hypertherm PowerMax 1250
    Miller Trailblazer 302 EFI
    Optima Pulser
    XR feeder and XR Edge gun
    and more at
    http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sparks, NV
    Posts
    9,584

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Yep it took me years to finally buy a plasma. Reason being is I could cut just about anythinh with a torch. When I was learning I spent lots of time down at a local welder's shop who was nice enough to help me get good at it... the few times I used a plasma over the years I did not do very well... so OA was much easier for me. Took a few hours of. practice to get the hang of plasma. Cut up a couple trucks to scrap them. Now I really like plasma for thinner stuff and non ferrous...
    Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.com
    AHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.
    For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Philly
    Posts
    20,241

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A749 View Post

    The preheat does the majority of the work,.
    That's about the only part of your statement I'll debate Steve, since you can cut without any fuel once you get the cut started. The O2 really does the majority of the work. The trick is having the skill to keep your speed perfect so you don't loose the cut. Otherwise your statement about the two working together is spot on.
    .



    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shamrock, TX
    Posts
    2,755

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A749 View Post
    Sweet work, Irish. You're a craftsman, to say the least.

    I hear you on shaky hands. Sometimes, when my nerves are really acting up, I can hardly hold a TIG torch or a cutting torch for that matter. My hand visibly trembles. Just have to put it down for a few minutes till it stops.

    Thanks for the pix.
    Thanks. Some days are better than others. I'm still young enough that the good days out number the bad but they're catching up.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSW View Post
    That's about the only part of your statement I'll debate Steve, since you can cut without any fuel once you get the cut started. The O2 really does the majority of the work. The trick is having the skill to keep your speed perfect so you don't loose the cut. Otherwise your statement about the two working together is spot on.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7A749 View Post
    I suppose it's all how you look at it. Maybe I should have clarified since I know exactly what you mean. Without a proper preheat, you're just making a mess. That's what I referred to by just turning it all up gangbusters & going for it. You really don't get a proper preheat & it ends up resulting in a bad cut that has to be restarted over & over.

    I've seen the trick of starting a cut, say in a hole to blow out a froze bolt. Once the cut is started, the fuel can be shut off & the O2 blows it out.

    I was kinda looking at it from an inside out point of view, I guess. I see your point tho.

    My point is that a good preheat with proper root flame adjustment is KEY. It gets you to the point where the O2 takes over & does the rest of the work. Without it, you end up with a blown out, rough cut & wasted gas.

    IMHO of course.
    I see both points here. Preheat is not absolutely needed for the cut. However you must have enough preheat to maintain the proper cutting speed. The amount is variable depending on several factors but the main one is how clean the metal is. Perfectly clean metal and a steady feed needs little preheat to get a good cut. The dirtier the metal (and this includes scale) the more preheat is needed.

    I've heard a lot of wives tales about OA cutting over the years. I've found the most are based on a small fact but taken out of proportion or context.

    These are the keys to a good cut in my experience.

    First and foremost is a good clean tip. By good I mean a good tip. This doesn't mean a new tip. I've seen a lot of new tips that didn't cut worth a flip many of which couldn't be made to cut well no matter what you did. To tell whether a tip is any good or is dirty is a simple thing. You just light the torch and adjust it while watching the flame. When you adjust the torch you need to do the final adjustment with the lance lever going. This is the only way to get a perfectly neutral flame during the cut. When you press the lever look at the flame and listen to it. If the flame shortens to nearly nothing when you do most likely it's the tip if not then you've probably got the oxygen pressure set way high. A good tip at least on the smaller ones will have the flame shorten little if any at all and will have a little crackling sound to it. I've attached two pics showing what I consider a fair tip. This is my new 1/4" tip (Purox rates tips different from others, they rate them by max recommended cutting capacity). I don't consider it a great tip but it does ok. Notice in the second shot that the flame isn't shortened to much. This is at 40 psi oxygen pressure which is what I run most of the time. If you light the torch and see the flame shorten to much you know you need to clean the tip (which I'll get to later).

    Next in importance is the clean metal. Dirty metal is much more difficult to get a clean cut on.

    Travel speed is important as well. This is where experience comes into play. You can tell more about whether you're at the right speed by listening than any other method I know of. The sweet spot will have a little sputtering or crackling sound coming from the bottom of the cut. At that speed there will be little if any dross on clean metal.

    Steady yourself. This is also of high importance. You must be in a comfortable position with at least one arm braced. Even better is if the hand is braced itself. I'll try to get some pics of this later if I have time.

    Oxygen pressure is important as well but this is a variable thing that needs some experimenting to get right for the given tip and tip size. I cover this more later.

    Tip distance from the work isn't as critical as some make out though it has some importance. The most important thing here is to not get the tip to close. This will just dirty the tip and make it cut bad. This is one of the biggest things I have to drill into my helpers when they're new. Many people cut with the tip close to the work because they always have dirty tips. The reason they always have dirty tips is because they always cut to close to the work. Catch22. I'll cover a little more on this later.

    Preheat size is another variable but it's another experience thing. You need more preheat for dirty metal or if you're beveling but to much causes bad cuts. I'll cover this more later as well.

    I know there are some more factors but those are the ones that come to mind right now.

    Please be patient. I'm going to try and upload a bunch of pictures with examples of some of the above and try to explain some more things. But it's going to take me time to do it.
    Millermatic 252
    XMT 304's
    Dynasty 280DX
    Hypertherm PowerMax 1250
    Miller Trailblazer 302 EFI
    Optima Pulser
    XR feeder and XR Edge gun
    and more at
    http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shamrock, TX
    Posts
    2,755

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Ok. We'll start with 1/4" plate, 40 psi oxygen, medium preheat (or just right).
    As you can see on this cut it's pretty fair. I was a little slow on the uptake and the first little bit left a little hard to remove slag but the rest will just drag right off. The first shot is as adjusted, the second shows with jet.
    Millermatic 252
    XMT 304's
    Dynasty 280DX
    Hypertherm PowerMax 1250
    Miller Trailblazer 302 EFI
    Optima Pulser
    XR feeder and XR Edge gun
    and more at
    http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shamrock, TX
    Posts
    2,755

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    Next is very little preheat. I had it adjusted to the lowest preheat I could. It's hard to see it in the flame pics but the cones on the flames are almost not there. As you can see from the cut it took forever to get it started even going from the corner. Once going it was ok till near the end when it popped back into the torch and lost it. All in all not the best way to go.
    Millermatic 252
    XMT 304's
    Dynasty 280DX
    Hypertherm PowerMax 1250
    Miller Trailblazer 302 EFI
    Optima Pulser
    XR feeder and XR Edge gun
    and more at
    http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Soda springs,Id
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Gussets, Oxy Fuel, Urban Legends & other well known myths.

    One little trick I learned yrs ago is when starting a cut on the plate surface, ie: not starting on an edge. Lean the tip over 10- 15 degrees while preheating, start the cut and as soon as it breaks thru the bottom side bring the tip back to vertical. It helps keep the blowback from sticking to the tip face.
    Mike
    Ol' Stonebreaker
    "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"

    Miller 175 mig
    Miller thunderbolt ac/dc stick
    Victor O/A setup
    Makita chop saw

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement