Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens
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  1. #1
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    Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    I already have a gas lens for a 20-style water cooled torch. I recently also got a 17-style; is it true that if I can just buy a special insulator part and then I can start using the #20 gas lens and shorter cups? I thought I read it somewhere earlier but I cannot find it again... Thank you!

  2. #2
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Nope. Threads are different. Those small 20 style gas lenses are designed for water cooling anyway and foul out quickly under an aircooled torch heat at full power.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  3. #3
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by manoweb View Post
    I already have a gas lens for a 20-style water cooled torch. I recently also got a 17-style; is it true that if I can just buy a special insulator part and then I can start using the #20 gas lens and shorter cups? I thought I read it somewhere earlier but I cannot find it again... Thank you!
    They do make the stubby collet bodies for the 17 style in standard and gas lens type then it will use 9-20 style cups. There was a good thread about this but we lost it in the recent forum crash.

    As was mentioned I am guessing this will downgrade the torch to more along the lines of a 125 amp rating instead or a 150 because the heat has less meat between the heat and torch head to dissipate as much as with the standard long 17 style stuff.

    Standard type,
    https://www.arc-zone.com/stubby-collet-body-ck-4cb

    Gas lens type,
    https://www.arc-zone.com/gas-lens-collet-body-ck-4gl
    Last edited by danielplace; 05-18-2018 at 06:33 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    A stubby gas lense kit on a 17 will use the same cups as a 9/20 will use. But thats it nothing else would swap over from one another.

    2017 Everlast Powertig 210 EXT with a CK 20 and water cooler
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  5. #5
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Jody sells the adapters. Weldmonger.
    Do not believe everything that you think.

  6. #6
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by songer121 View Post
    A stubby gas lense kit on a 17 will use the same cups as a 9/20 will use. But thats it nothing else would swap over from one another.
    You can't use a long 17 (3 series) collet in a stubby adapter nor the 17 type insulator. Everything changes except the torch body and the back cover.

    It will use all 9/20 (4 series) everything once you swap in the stub collet body or a stubby gas lens collet body except back cap.
    The collet, insulator seal and the cups will all be 9/20 type if you use stubby kit in the 17 (3 series) torch.

  7. #7
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    You can't use a long 17 (3 series) collet in a stubby adapter nor the 17 type insulator. Everything changes except the torch body and the back cover.

    It will use all 9/20 (4 series) everything once you swap in the stub collet body or a stubby gas lens collet body except back cap.
    The collet, insulator seal and the cups will all be 9/20 type if you use stubby kit in the 17 (3 series) torch.
    Im not sure what your talking about, did you not read my comment lol?? and no you can not use a 9/20 insulator, collet or collet body aka gas lense on a 17 torch? They are completely different size torch heads.... i have both of these torches right in front of me as im typing this so either we are talking about two different things or you dont know what youre talking about.... the cups are the only thing that switch over. the rest of the components are to small to fit a 17 torch....

    2017 Everlast Powertig 210 EXT with a CK 20 and water cooler
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  8. #8
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    just buy this: https://weldmongerstore.com/collecti...y-gas-lens-kit as a starter and your good to go.

    2017 Everlast Powertig 210 EXT with a CK 20 and water cooler
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  9. #9
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by songer121 View Post
    Im not sure what your talking about, did you not read my comment lol?? and no you can not use a 9/20 insulator, collet or collet body aka gas lense on a 17 torch? They are completely different size torch heads.... i have both of these torches right in front of me as im typing this so either we are talking about two different things or you dont know what youre talking about.... the cups are the only thing that switch over. the rest of the components are to small to fit a 17 torch....

    Never said a 9/20 collet body or a gas lens would fit a 17 torch that is the stubby adapter gas lens and collet body that allows use of 9/20 cups. Of course a 9/20 collet body or gas lens wouldn't fit a 17.

    I run a Super Cool 280 water cooled on the Dynasty 280 and have a WP-9 aircooled on my Multimatic 200 so I only know what I read fit with these stubby adapters when installed on a 17 size torch but have never done it so you probably know better. Lucky because everything I got interchanges. Supercool 280 uses 9/20 everything so it is pretty small torch but has a 100% duty rating of 280 amps.

    I was just reading description on the stubby setup for the 17 torch.

    I think I mixed up the series. The 9/20 are 2 series. I think I see now.
    Last edited by danielplace; 05-22-2018 at 08:56 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Nope. Threads are different. Those small 20 style gas lenses are designed for water cooling anyway and foul out quickly under an aircooled torch heat at full power.
    OK so maybe the gas lenses are different but the cups are the same?

    I am pretty sure that a 17-style with gas lenses does not have to be derated in terms of A and duty-cycle compared to a non-gas lenses

  11. #11
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by manoweb View Post
    OK so maybe the gas lenses are different but the cups are the same?

    I am pretty sure that a 17-style with gas lenses does not have to be derated in terms of A and duty-cycle compared to a non-gas lenses
    Better re-read the post.

    I never said that either. Never compared the standard collet body to a gas lens style collet body. What I said was that the standard long stuff that a 17 usually runs and is what the torch is originally rated for use with may have a higher duty cycle than when you put the short stubby stuff in it that makes it less than half as long. If you don't think a shorter assembly could affect the heat transfer to the torch body that's ok but I am pretty sure it might.

    Forget I ever posted please. Not interested in going back and forth about this any longer.

  12. #12
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by manoweb View Post
    OK so maybe the gas lenses are different but the cups are the same?

    I am pretty sure that a 17-style with gas lenses does not have to be derated in terms of A and duty-cycle compared to a non-gas lenses
    With concern.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  13. #13
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Forget I ever posted please. Not interested in going back and forth about this any longer.
    I quoted user "shovelon", not you.

  14. #14
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    OK I have found this, not sure it is the original thing I've read but:

    https://weldmongerstore.com/products...-18-26-torches

    "The Kit not only allows you to mount the FURICK CUPS, but you can mount any 9/20 style cup as well."

    I have never used a #17, and I am wondering if it makes sense to get the gas lens kit for it. For the #20 torch I literally paid 6 bucks at Airgas for the gas lens and then I bought some fancy pyrex #8 cups, but I did not have to, the regular #8 cup I had was good too. It seems these #17 cost more in accessories?

  15. #15
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Furthermore, the same website has this kit:

    https://weldmongerstore.com/collecti...kit-3-32-2-4mm

    "My new Basic Stubby Gas Lens Kit setup is for 3/32” (2.4mm) electrodes…which is the most used size there is because a 3/32” 2% lanthanated electrode can weld razor blades and will also handle nearly 200 amps AC (on most welders) and about 250 on DC …and fits 17 or 26 Series TIG torches.

    This kit comes with a #8 gas lens style cup but also allows you to use any of your 9 or 20 gas lens style cups on your 17 or 26 torch head. ( the white insulator heatshield that comes with the kit is the key) "

    250A on DC and same cups as #20 torches

    Not sure I want to spend 40 bucks on something I'd seldom use, but I'll see if this vendor has a smaller kit with only gas lens and special collet. It seems a reputable website.

  16. #16
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by manoweb View Post

    Not sure I want to spend 40 bucks on something I'd seldom use, but I'll see if this vendor has a smaller kit with only gas lens and special collet. It seems a reputable website.
    And that is the rub. Once you go gas lens you won't want to go back. And those cheap weldmonger ones will foul out in short order. Depends on what you are welding and how high amps.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  17. #17
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    I have a couple of questions because I am surprised by your answer.

    * You do not like the "weldmonger" merchandise, I see it's "CK worldwide" brand, what brand and source do you deem better than that? Not trying to be sarcastic here, just curious.
    * I have bought gas lenses for my #20 at AirGas, I forgot exactly but it was a name brand. They weren't too expensive, maybe 6-8 dollars. How would they "foul out". If I TIG something very dirty that splatters - I guess no gas lens will be immune to that. Otherwise, unless my argon is very "dirty" (??) how can they foul out.

  18. #18
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by manoweb View Post
    I have a couple of questions because I am surprised by your answer.

    * You do not like the "weldmonger" merchandise, I see it's "CK worldwide" brand, what brand and source do you deem better than that? Not trying to be sarcastic here, just curious.
    * I have bought gas lenses for my #20 at AirGas, I forgot exactly but it was a name brand. They weren't too expensive, maybe 6-8 dollars. How would they "foul out". If I TIG something very dirty that splatters - I guess no gas lens will be immune to that. Otherwise, unless my argon is very "dirty" (??) how can they foul out.
    There are different sizes gas lens. The weldmonger stubby kit was designed for a water cooled torch. Adapted to an aircooled torch the size of lens and collet composition deal with a lot of heat and tend to burn out. I found the next size up to a medium stubby gas lens and tellurium alloy copper collets hold up much better under the built up heat. I made the move to the WeldTec brand medium stubby gas lens(desighned for aircooled) and collet for 17 model aircooled torch. Yes they are special order. Yes they cost more. Yes they last almost forever. I use the 3/32" size. Here is a parts list. The medium gas lens sets are at the bottom.

    http://www.tectorch.com/PDF/TIG%20We...gas%20lens.pdf
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  19. #19
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Well but why not use a proper watercooled #20 in that case, especially for professional use

    I'd take a "halfway decent" gas lens for this #17 just so I can use it, say I'll keep it as a spare in case the #20 needs service etc.

  20. #20
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    Quote Originally Posted by manoweb View Post
    Well but why not use a proper watercooled #20 in that case, especially for professional use

    I'd take a "halfway decent" gas lens for this #17 just so I can use it, say I'll keep it as a spare in case the #20 needs service etc.
    Because I take my aircooled torch tig welders on site as well. Took a bit of time with my first aircooled torch to see the light, now every one of my 5 aircooled tigs have the TecTorch medium gas lens. As far as watercooled tigs I have 5 of those as well.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  21. #21
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    Re: Converting a 17-style torch to gas lens

    OK I see, I have never really considered having a "mobile" TIG setup.

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