Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?
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  1. #1
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    Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Hello, I am an architecture student that recently was offered a job welding fish tank stands out of steel tube... its a friend who owns a business and wants to stop making the tables out of wood and make them out of metal... I friends that make fishtanks as a hobby and have seen them use metal stands with weld beads so it seems pretty standard...

    Im also an architect (background in being a Revit & BIM semi-expert) and I'm getting into autodesk inventor and solid works and I want to design and prototype my own furniture.

    Im wondering if its somehow illegal to do this without some kind of either welders license or some kind of mechanical engineering license to design drawings and 3D views for furniture? is there some regulatory agency that approves CAD's for companies like ikea designing a new line of furniture? similar to the Department of Buildings or something like that...

    is there a college degree or license needed to design 3D and 2D plans and write the specs for a chair frame or furniture etc... is there a agency that must approve it?

    and then is there a license needed to actually weld it out of a small custom furniture shop.. or in this case the custom fish tank shop... (just making the stands)

    since im studyng architecture to become a licensed architect and learning about all things 3D this obviously is info that can be drawn apon later in life... in fact the only reason i know what "standards" are is because of sideprojects in manufacturing stuff... and then when it came up in architecture school and in jobs i have had in the BIM and construction industry i was way ahead of the game...


    thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Every state has its own requirements for being in business for yourself. Most do not require licensing for things such that do not have an affect on public safety. Here, home building plans,need to be stamped by a,licensed architect, or engineer if you want to build houses or make additions to other peoples homes. You're not delving into that realm, so I would say no to the licensing gig. You will need to register the biz as a biz (registration or biz license), sales tax id number ( if state applicable).

    Contact your county biz office to get the info on what you have to do.

    Most importantly is business liability insurance,
    T man.


    15 + years working for myself, and by golly, I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.

  3. #3
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Kind of a watered down answer : If it's part of the building structure, it's subject to building code. If it's removable and uses quick disconnect means, it's not. A freestanding bar/table with no permanent connection to the building structure is treated like an appliance. A built in is likely to be treated as part of the building structure. If it's not carrying structural loads, I can't imagine any structural codes to apply to it.

    Things like ADA come into play with appliances in commercial structures, but if this doesn't "interface" with the public, like a bar or table where a customer touches it and sits at/on it, then you should be fine. This is for things like height, clearance, signage, visibility, etc. Most jurisdictions give local code inspectors (sometimes called the "authority having jurisdiction") some leeway to enforce unwritten code, but when I've seen it used that was for for obvious stuff, or pet peeves of that specific inspector. THey always had a genuine safety concern they were addressing.

    Over engineer and you have nothing to worry about.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    No you don't

  5. #5
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    NO. Not in Not There ya don't
    It's a " Land of the fee thing"
    I'd email Dennis Rodman and see if he can help.
    Zap...relax man.
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  6. #6

    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Quote Originally Posted by trader_joe View Post
    Hello, I am an architecture student that recently was offered a job welding fish tank stands out of steel tube... its a friend who owns a business and wants to stop making the tables out of wood and make them out of metal... I friends that make fishtanks as a hobby and have seen them use metal stands with weld beads so it seems pretty standard...

    Im also an architect (background in being a Revit & BIM semi-expert) and I'm getting into autodesk inventor and solid works and I want to design and prototype my own furniture.

    Im wondering if its somehow illegal to do this without some kind of either welders license or some kind of mechanical engineering license to design drawings and 3D views for furniture? is there some regulatory agency that approves CAD's for companies like ikea designing a new line of furniture? similar to the Department of Buildings or something like that...

    is there a college degree or license needed to design 3D and 2D plans and write the specs for a chair frame or furniture etc... is there a agency that must approve it?

    and then is there a license needed to actually weld it out of a small custom furniture shop.. or in this case the custom fish tank shop... (just making the stands)

    since im studyng architecture to become a licensed architect and learning about all things 3D this obviously is info that can be drawn apon later in life... in fact the only reason i know what "standards" are is because of sideprojects in manufacturing stuff... and then when it came up in architecture school and in jobs i have had in the BIM and construction industry i was way ahead of the game...


    thanks
    You need a license if you are working on building
    You may need resale for sales tax

    Dave

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  7. #7
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    You don't need a license to build fish tank stands but it would probably make the fish feel a whole lot safer.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrookedRoads View Post
    You don't need a license to build fish tank stands but it would probably make the fish feel a whole lot safer.
    Are that breed of fish allowed where you live ?

  9. #9
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    You need to be Licensed by the State Department of Fish & Wildlife.
    They have a lot of college graduate Conservation Officers who will be glad to help you.

  10. #10
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    If you have them built in china then no problem but if you want to pay for a license then I am sure someone in the local protection organization will be glad to help you out of your monies.

  11. #11
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Without being a legal expert I’d say no, YOU don’t need any licensure. The guy who’s having you make fish tank stands for his business should have some insurance though, if required, or not. That way if a cross member lets loose and spills a couple hundred gallons on somebodies new wood floor, he doesn’t get his clock cleaned.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mmock4 View Post
    Without being a legal expert I’d say no, YOU don’t need any licensure. The guy who’s having you make fish tank stands for his business should have some insurance though, if required, or not. That way if a cross member lets loose and spills a couple hundred gallons on somebodies new wood floor, he doesn’t get his clock cleaned.
    You nailed it. The guy who writes the ticket is responsible for what you buy from he/she/tran/LGBTM/M.O.U.S.E . The guy who actually did the work....well that's something for another lawyer living in mommies basement to go after.

    With me, in the land of the free. If I tell you it'll be right, it will.If not, I'll make it right~~ one way or the other. Palabra fuerte. I'm a man of my word.

  13. #13
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    what im doing welding wise isnt really related to architecture its just info about my background... and also shows that i know about 3d modeling and generally prototyping and making drawings in architectural programs and beginning to delve into doing the same thing but in the solidworks type feild...

    im sure any time ikea launches a new chair theres gotta be some internal drawings with side views, top views, etc... and a spec sheet like "must use ISO galvanized steel #23939blahblahblah" (i know nothing about standards lol)

    and im wondering who exactly DOES THIS? MECHANICAL ENGINEERS?

    and is there such a thing as a welder's license... non design related just hands on??? in order to do that?? who works on the assembly lines for these big companies once a design goes to mass production? this goes for more than just ikea... really any welded product like a stand for something etc... bicycles?? etc

  14. #14
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Quote Originally Posted by trader_joe View Post
    what im doing welding wise isnt really related to architecture its just info about my background... and also shows that i know about 3d modeling and generally prototyping and making drawings in architectural programs and beginning to delve into doing the same thing but in the solidworks type feild...

    im sure any time ikea launches a new chair theres gotta be some internal drawings with side views, top views, etc... and a spec sheet like "must use ISO galvanized steel #23939blahblahblah" (i know nothing about standards lol)

    and im wondering who exactly DOES THIS? MECHANICAL ENGINEERS?

    and is there such a thing as a welder's license... non design related just hands on??? in order to do that?? who works on the assembly lines for these big companies once a design goes to mass production? this goes for more than just ikea... really any welded product like a stand for something etc... bicycles?? etc
    Weldors are certified typically* for the exact job/welds they will be doing by a CWI. The weldor, demonstrates that he/she can do the required welds, and then the welds are tested in some way. It’s not like an electricians license etc.. you don’t walk around with a piece of paper and are a “certified” welder. Just because you passed 6g pipe test with a paper saying so 20 years ago, doesn’t mean you still can, or imply the same. Recent certifications along with experience will increase your chances of a successful interview, but the certifications themselves aren’t the authority on whether or not you’re competent weldor when you walk up to a job, and on their own don’t have any real meaningful clout beyond the workplace. “AWS certified” does make a good impression on Joe public that doesn’t know any better though.
    Last edited by Mmock4; 06-14-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    A manufacturer like Ikea probably wouldn't need an engineer to design a chair but it would be their responsibility to properly design and test it and you can bet their insurance company is making sure they do that. A manufacturer that's making seats to go in a car or on an airplane would need an engineer to design and certify those seats because their moving so much faster.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    No, after that it's YOYO - Your On Your Own. As in, anyone can sue you for any reason. Of course, as others have stated there are local and state laws about having a biz, etc.

  17. #17
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    No you don't need a license or insurance. But as said, if somethings happens or the IRS finds out your on your own.
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  18. #18

    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic416 View Post
    No you don't need a license or insurance. But as said, if somethings happens or the IRS finds out your on your own.
    There are two tax's you have pay Employees with holding tax and sales tax

    They will not stop coming for you
    You colleted tax for them

    So if eating or paying tax pick paying taxes
    You can loss some weight and sleep

    Dave

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  19. #19
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic416 View Post
    No you don't need a license or insurance. But as said, if somethings happens or the IRS finds out your on your own.
    IRS doesn't care if you have license or insurance. Not their scope- they just want their cut of the money switching hands


    Not sure in other states but here in California the Sales tax collectors will be your first priority

    If you fail to pay them they will just shut you down- no payment plan with them. Chains and a padlock for your doors until you make full payment. I worked at a business that had this happen. Sheriff was there too with the chains :0.

    IRS- at least they will offer you a payment plan.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    WTF, Is everyone really that paranoid of the tax man, this poor guy doesn't even have a business for Christ's sake.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrookedRoads View Post
    WTF, Is everyone really that paranoid of the tax man, this poor guy doesn't even have a business for Christ's sake.
    Paranoid, absolutely. I have been witness to what can happen. I have seen a business locked as I described. I have also seen an a person's bank account seized.

    Now both instances they were deserved because the business did not pay the sales tax and the individual did not respond to the IRS when they were trying to collect taxes. She figured it would " just go away".



    But this is a forum and a discussion group so discussions happen. No bad advice was given and honestly it is actually good advice.


    The license question was sorta answered and then went off on the tax tangent. No harm, No foul since it is not bad advice.

    He wants to start welding and getting paid= business. This isn't a hobby for him.

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  22. #22
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    cash or check? are you smart or book-smart?

    as far as selling anything for profit... you need to have proper licence, bond and insurance*

    as far as welding... if it doesn't need an engineers stamp you dont need to have a specific cert. your ^ above licence,bond and insurance should cover you**



    have you ever broken the speed limit?... a better question is what are the risks involved in....




    *its not about whats right its about what you can prove. cough, cough, cash only
    **had an effin lot of 'certified' weld jobs even some i've had to challenge the inspector on. funny thing, not one has ever ran my certifications. most simpily dont know what they dont know when it comes to welding.


    bottom line, be smart, know your risk/liability, limit risk/liability.


    even when you think you know the system will bend you over. my home shop burnt to the ground 2 yrs ago, even properly insured as i thought. i had one piece of equipment in the shop that was 'owned' by the business. one line in a hundred page contract stated any 'business use' voids all coverage. apparently i should have rented a storage unit for tools not on the job. $60k lost. not a penny of insurance money. i was honest, i wont be anymore, when it comes to legalities.

    even if you do it wrong, do it now while you dont have allot to loose. stakes are allot higher when you're the sole income for your wife and kids. they will take away your ability to earn and then fine you for not being able to afford insurance. 'Merican freedom phuck 'em
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  23. #23

    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    I seen that with California too
    I also seen with payroll taxes

    Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    IRS doesn't care if you have license or insurance. Not their scope- they just want their cut of the money switching hands


    Not sure in other states but here in California the Sales tax collectors will be your first priority

    If you fail to pay them they will just shut you down- no payment plan with them. Chains and a padlock for your doors until you make full payment. I worked at a business that had this happen. Sheriff was there too with the chains :0.

    IRS- at least they will offer you a payment plan.
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  24. #24
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    If your making 10 of them a year, no one cares. If your making them for tanks less than 250 gallons, you should be fine

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  25. #25
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    Re: Do i need a license for furniture fabrication?

    From your first post you were offered a job . To me this means you would be an employee. I can’t see you being responsible for anything except showing up on time for work.

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