240V wiring help! - Page 2
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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    617

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    You’ve received good advise on breaker setup. I thought I’d just chime in and say, if your subpanel is not near your welding area then the more economical solution will indeed be to run the power via extension cord to your welding area. It will be far easier and less expensive to install the 240v outlet, and breakers to code level workmanship than making the run to the garage. (Its a good idea to have an electrician come look over your work, as it will cover your bases with home insurance)

    Running EMT, Rigid, or Armour cable + individually insulated/appropriate size conductors will cost a good deal more than the $70 for the extension cord.

    Ignore the smart*** comment above, some people’s mouths run faster than their brains do.
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  2. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    276

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    I had forgotten the Zinsco bus layout. While still not as good as a wide breaker the narrow would work in any of the 3 extra spaces and not need filler because both the busses are available to every space. I mean like if there is problem finding a wide full size the narrow could suffice.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    San Bernardino, Ca
    Posts
    8

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mmock4 View Post
    You’ve received good advise on breaker setup. I thought I’d just chime in and say, if your subpanel is not near your welding area then the more economical solution will indeed be to run the power via extension cord to your welding area. It will be far easier and less expensive to install the 240v outlet, and breakers to code level workmanship than making the run to the garage. (Its a good idea to have an electrician come look over your work, as it will cover your bases with home insurance)

    Running EMT, Rigid, or Armour cable + individually insulated/appropriate size conductors will cost a good deal more than the $70 for the extension cord.

    Ignore the smart*** comment above, some people’s mouths run faster than their brains do.
    Thanks for the feedback and encouragement. I was thinking pretty much what you wrote, putting an outlet just below the box and running an extension is the best. I need 50ft minimum, 60ft is ideal, but 50ft is enough. Any suggestions on a quality cord?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    I had forgotten the Zinsco bus layout. While still not as good as a wide breaker the narrow would work in any of the 3 extra spaces and not need filler because both the busses are available to every space. I mean like if there is problem finding a wide full size the narrow could suffice.
    It looks like the wide ones are available, just have to wait for them to get shipped since it's tough to find them local. But I'll keep in mind what you said if it ends up being a challenge to find them.

    Thanks again everyone, I've learned a ton through your responses. Now if only I could learn to make a bead as pretty as the ones I see in these forums... ha, maybe 220v will help out with that too.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    west texas
    Posts
    2,341

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    To have a new panel put in would cost a few thousand dollars.

    Buy as much 12/3 SO cord and put your choice of plug and receptacle ends on it.
    old Miller spectrum 625
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  5. #30
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    286

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    I would suggest you just buy the pre-made 240v extension cords since you don't know much about electrical wiring and they're pretty cheap to begin with. You can buy them in 50 and 25 feet lengths. The 50' can be a real PITA to coil up when it's cold. So maybe go with 3x 25'

    Since your running an old breaker setup, make sure that they can handle this load. Especially since they were falsely advertised as working to standards... You can installed what's called a fused disconnect between the breaker and your 240v outlet. This will give you better protection and peace of mind. You will have to buy the fuses that go hand in hand with the loads you will be using or they won't be effective.



    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    617

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus2137 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback and encouragement. I was thinking pretty much what you wrote, putting an outlet just below the box and running an extension is the best. I need 50ft minimum, 60ft is ideal, but 50ft is enough. Any suggestions on a quality cord?
    Here ya go on the cord, nice and tidy. Yeah you could fuss around and make one, but if buying new materials it’s pretty close cost wise, and this has the bonus of having nice molded ends.

    https://www.amazon.com/8350M-Heavy-D...extension+cord
    -Mark Smith

    Vulcan ProTig200
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    196

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    The problem with Zinsco/Sylvania plug in breakers is they weld themselves to the aluminum bus, the UBI aftermarket UL classified Zinsco breakers are VERY expensive, surprisingly, Zinsco bolt on breakers are not bad, just only avail. used & even more expensive ($140 for a 2 pole 20A), but both style were cheap when they were in production, the trunk slammers & pond scum contractors loved them, now they use Eaton BR, which I call "Zinsco II" BTW, some of the the BR panels had Zinsco main breakers.

    In the long term scrapping that panel is the best solution, Zinsco/Sylvania has been obsolete for over 30 years and that upside down main breaker has been prohibited even longer.

    Early Zinsco panels used a plated copper bus.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    76

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    Nothing wrong with that Zinsco panel as far as I can see. 100 amp Zinsco panels got a bad rap because of buss bars corroding. Mostly caused by people simply overloading them. 100 amps was fine back in the 60's for a home. Now we just have too much stuff, and all that stuff requires more amps. There are millions of these panels out there today that are working fine, and many different manufacturers used Zinsco style breakers in their equipment. The first words out of some electricians mouths when they see a Zinsco is those are dangerous and we need to upgrade your panel. Translation...I need the money. By the way, I'm a Ca. C10 licensed electrical contractor. I say use the panel. It should be fine if you don't overload it.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mount Tabor VT
    Posts
    5,019

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    I have less knowledge of Zinsco than I do of FPE, or early GE. Panels get a bad name for fires, not for early failure. In short circuit events (high current), the worst weld the contact points together, rendering them unable to break. FPE was the common one where I live. In the years these were being installed, a few suppliers existed. If a supplier understood that a panel was dangerous, they didn't sell it. I've seen only a few Zinsco panels in a 48 year carreer. I've read a fair amount about them. The interface between buss bar & breaker is a common problem for many manufacturers, but it rarely caused fire. This would give a bad reputation, but no scandal. You are forced to replace the panel. Fire is another matter. FPE, and Zinsco were notorious, and the internet has plenty of statistical proof of their hazard.

    It is failure to open a circuit that earned these breakers their notoriety.

    You are correct; if there is no short circuit, these breakers are fine. In that logic, if you never need to stop quickly, your truck doesn't need brakes.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    San Bernardino, Ca
    Posts
    8

    Re: 240V wiring help!

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    Thanks for the help everyone. I finished it all up yesterday and gave a it a test run, everything works perfectly. I ended up just doing an all-weather box just below the panel and an anaconda-size extension to get from there to my welder. Works great. I feel like I have to learn to weld again with all the power I now have haha, but it's amazing how smooth the bead is on my 3/16 and 1/4 tests, where it used to always struggle and start to stutter pretty bad. Thanks again!

    marcus

    ignore the painting, I'm in the middle of repainting the house so I went ahead and painted all around where I was working before hooking everything up.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    276

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    Wow had no idea it was exposed 3R panel.
    Seriously !!!
    Change that antiquated thing out already. Lol

    Happy you got it going and liking it.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-15-2018 at 04:34 PM.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    3,357

    Re: 240V wiring help!

    Nice.
    I just want to add something for you. Take the negative comments in stride. Also, many of us enjoy helping other people out. Some of us get together and help get a project done. I am in Yuma, AZ but I have family up in Twin Peaks. I would come over and help out. In closing, check out a Weldorama if you you can. One of the best ways to learn from a PRO for free, meet guys that do the same stuff and put a face to a name. Good stuffs.

    And for the sake of my family, do NOT catch any of those dry leaves and stuffs on fire with welding sparks!!!!
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