Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,173

    Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Just messing around on some 1/8th inch flat stock and some 1/8th inch angle, to see how hard it would be to dial in 100% CO2. Didin't really clean anything off, as I didn't need to with C25. Seems like it is a lot harder than I thought on this machine. Running 0.035 wire and 30 CFH of gas. Had no problem at all getting this dialed in with C25...same materials, same roll of wire. I started with the door chart settings of 190 ipm and 19.9 volts. The welds are way too hot. The beads are very flat or concave and have a "crows feet" and or wrinkled appearance on the face of them. No porosity, just a too hot bead from the looks of it. Spatter is minimal, and the arc starts are OK. Getting a decent sizzling sound during the weld. Eventually went back to the recommended C25 settings (17.4 and 230 ipm) and slowly turned up the voltage until I got some nicer looking welds (all the way up to 20 but the best were around 18.5), but nothing I would be happy with...a little less flat or concave, the ripples are a bit more pronounced. but still not the best bead profile. What am I missing here?
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Not there
    Posts
    2,614

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Back the gas down to 15-18 and hit the mill scale a little. Less than you would for C25 frr sure but hit it a little at least. It's still MAG so scale still acts like scale to a somewhat lesser degree
    Same with the ground, obviously.
    Make sure your contact tip is flush to the nozzle. Push technique when possible.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    1,902

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    With .035 wire try 17 CFM and 19.2V and around 195 IPM. Works great on mine. Keep the wire stick out around a 1/4" or less, I like to have the tip 1/16" to 1/8" out of the gas nozzle. (helps me see the stick out better) Hope this helps.
    Last edited by 12V71; 08-05-2018 at 10:32 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    OK, I cleaned up a bunch of scrap, bright and shiny with an 60 grit flap wheel. On 3/16ths and 1/4 inch material, the door chart is just about right on and I hav no problem making fairly nice beads. But on the 1/8th inch stuff, I am still struggling. its way hot. I tried the door settings, I tried the recommended settings (19.2 and 195 ipm) no go. too hot. I ended up at about 18.4 and 180 and kind of almost got an ok looking bead. I am not sure what's up. Maybe I will stick with C25 for the smaller stuff, and save the CO2 for thicker stuff and dual shield.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Not there
    Posts
    2,614

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    I just don't know the 252 enough to be of any help. You might call the tech line o'er Miller or maybe some body guys will chime in
    I run my MM200 on about Low 3 and 45 for 18 ga steel 030 on the wire and maybe High 1 and 50 for 1/8..or 2 and 50 if the scale is heavy but I have no idea what that digitates to.
    The 211 is about the same on 4/45 or so @230 if anyone can do that math

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bemidji MN
    Posts
    13,620

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    I don't know if your situation is the same, but my millermatic 210 door chart is for 230 volts and my place runs 247 volts.

    As a result, sometimes I have to turn down my wire feed speed to compensate on 1/8" and below.

    But when 3/16" material and thicker, the difference isn't too hot to care.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    94

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    I run my mm251 with 035 wire. Co2 set at 15. No issues with gas coverage. I use the supplied chart to get me close to voltage/ wire speed. YMMV.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Cal., Shasta County
    Posts
    8,776

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    OK, I cleaned up a bunch of scrap, bright and shiny with an 60 grit flap wheel. On 3/16ths and 1/4 inch material, the door chart is just about right on and I hav no problem making fairly nice beads. But on the 1/8th inch stuff, I am still struggling. its way hot. I tried the door settings, I tried the recommended settings (19.2 and 195 ipm) no go. too hot. I ended up at about 18.4 and 180 and kind of almost got an ok looking bead. I am not sure what's up. Maybe I will stick with C25 for the smaller stuff, and save the CO2 for thicker stuff and dual shield.
    That 19.2 and 195 is just about perfect for .030 and CO2 on 1/8th.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    I am running 0.035 Lincoln L56 wire. I don't have any 0.030 at the moment
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal-LA
    Posts
    8,728

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    I am running 0.035 Lincoln L56 wire. I don't have any 0.030 at the moment
    I am a straight c100 hater, so take this with a grain of salt. Smaller wire is still never going into spray or even near it. Hence the argon. It will be globular transfer always, which is the reason I cannot deal with the spatter. I still use solid wire with C25, but on occasion for cosmetic mig I pull out the Metalloy Vantage and c10.

    I know it is off topic, but you might want to ake a look at this TriMark/Metalloy brochure and ponder. http://www.hobartbrothers.com/downlo...CoredWires.pdf

    That's all.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Thanks Terry, that's cool. I have not tried metal core yet. I do use dual shield for larger stuff. This was more of just a learning exercise for me. I can for sure get the results I want on gauge material with C25. I was just messing around with CO2 on the new welder to try and expand my horizons a bit.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgetown, Texas
    Posts
    1,744

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    I've used straight CO2 for years now and on every thing with out problems but the readings between the MM252 and the S52 feeder are way different with the same wire and same gas. The 252 is 18V and around 210 on the speed. The S52 is 20V and 300 on the wire speed. Neither are very picky with settings though. Your problem may be the gas pressure. I only run 10 to 15 psi on the CO2. Remember that CO2 gets quite a bit more penetration than mix gas so may look different while welding.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Not there
    Posts
    2,614

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal-LA
    Posts
    8,728

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzoo View Post
    "It's a little rough".

    I get the impression he really did not like Co2.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bemidji MN
    Posts
    13,620

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    "It's a little rough".

    I get the impression he really did not like Co2.
    I'm puzzled why he ran such low amperage at 100 amps on 3/16" material?

    Still looked like it penetrated into the root though - but he could go a lot faster if he cranked it up to around 160 amps.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal-LA
    Posts
    8,728

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    I'm puzzled why he ran such low amperage at 100 amps on 3/16" material?

    Still looked like it penetrated into the root though - but he could go a lot faster if he cranked it up to around 160 amps.
    If he cranked it up, which I think he had already done in rehearsal, there was more spatter? Really you could have put me in his shoes and I would have felt the same way. Bob is a better mig welder than I.

    Did you notice the pull direction?
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bemidji MN
    Posts
    13,620

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    If he cranked it up, which I think he had already done in rehearsal, there was more spatter? Really you could have put me in his shoes and I would have felt the same way. Bob is a better mig welder than I.

    Did you notice the pull direction?
    You mean about him being a lefty?

    I use 100% co2 often as I'm a cheap SOB and if I want it really nice I'll tig weld it anyway

    I run hot and straight as often as possible with mig. It makes it easier to push that way - I have trouble seeing the joint when I pull...

    If I'm doing a weave I pull though. The light plays around good that way so I can see.
    I like to weave the second pass.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal-LA
    Posts
    8,728

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    You mean about him being a lefty?

    I use 100% co2 often as I'm a cheap SOB and if I want it really nice I'll tig weld it anyway

    I run hot and straight as often as possible with mig. It makes it easier to push that way - I have trouble seeing the joint when I pull...

    If I'm doing a weave I pull though. The light plays around good that way so I can see.
    I like to weave the second pass.
    Wll at first I thought he was pushing the weld, then I saw he was lefty. Knowing his reputation, that put me at ease.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    So, not sure what I did differently. After I finished the wife's project, I cleaned up the garage, and took a sanding disk to both of my welding tables to clean them up a bit. After I cleaned up and swept up everything, I started doing some practice on 1/8 and 3/16th coupons in tee joint configuration. All the door chart settings worked fine. Also, when I was at Maine Oxy pricing Hypertherm plasma units, I asked them how much the charge would be for swapping my out of date 20 lb CO2 tank. $33. What about the hydrostatic charge test, the tank is way out of date? "Ah, don't sweat it, just bring it in for a swap and we won't charge you. We only charge hydro test fees for cylinders you want us to refill while you wait." WAY COOL!!
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    One other question, when a 20lb CO2 tank is full, what pressure will the tank read? I have been welding on this tank for a few weeks now and it seems to have been on 500 PSI on the gauge forever.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    bar stool
    Posts
    1,626

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    I run Co2 on Lincoln, Hobart BROS and NON ITW Miller machines since 1981.

    Step 1, put a double layer of black tape over the digital display.
    Step 2, set the machine with the knobs
    Step 3, set Co2 regulator for 8 PSI and around 10 cf on the flow meter.
    Step 4, put a coat of paint over the door chart of the machine
    Step 5, weld happily listening to the sound and adjusting distance from tip to pool to maintain sound.

    I'd like to meet the assclown who decided MIG machines needed a DRO and keyboard. I'd kick him square in the shins to bend him so I could knee him in the face.

    The pressure reading on a Co2 cylinder will be around 500 psi as long as liquid is remaining in the cylinder. Pressure is being read from the gas over the liquid pool. When liquid is exhausted the pressure will drop fast.

    C-25 and all the rest of the blends nobody needs as well as Argon are cylinders full of GAS compressed to whatever pressure the fill plant operator desired up to maximum automated safety pressure programmed into the machine that flunkey interfaces with.

    Throw the stinkin dead fish in the trash and become a weldOr, not a welding machine interface operator.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    669

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    Co2 is also roughly 8.7Cf per Pound @ 70F Louie, in case you wanted to approximate the mileage you get from the tank. Like Virgil said, the pressure will read consistent until that last bit of liquid flashes into gas.
    -Mark Smith

    Vulcan ProTig200
    Vulcan MigMax215

    Everlast PowerArc 210STL
    Hypertherm PowerMax45 Xp

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Having trouble dialing in the MM252 with 100% CO2

    I'd like to meet the assclown who decided MIG machines needed a DRO and keyboard. I'd kick him square in the shins to bend him so I could knee him in the face.
    The problem wasn't not knowing how to set the voltage and wire feed speed by sound. I taught myself to wire weld on a hobart handler 190. No readouts and tapped voltage settings. I know how to do this. The problem was even when I did the usual tuning I was getting over heated welds that were too flat or even concave, despite any settings. But that problem was solved today. Maybe I just needed some more seat time with CO2 to get the hang of it.

    The pressure reading on a Co2 cylinder will be around 500 psi as long as liquid is remaining in the cylinder.
    Cool, thanks.
    Throw the stinkin dead fish in the trash and become a weldOr, not a welding machine interface operator.
    I may never be a real weldor. I don't spend enough time doing it, and am self taught. But for the hobby projects I build, I am good enough I guess.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement