Useless Millermatic 252
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  1. #1
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    Dec 2013
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    Useless Millermatic 252

    I have a Millermatic 252. It is a great welder! my favorite process is Dualshield, but for other applications, hard wire is nice, never been successful with flux core, but I found I had polarity wrong. I bet I'd have liked it better with the right polarity.

    I do electrical work at a facility where they own an identical 252. I had persuaded management to try dualshield. Yesterday, the maintenance man was getting very frustrated with the Dualshield. He'd get an immediate bird nest.

    I tried it. For me, it bird nested, but not as soon. Still, I couldn't lay a bead. even experimenting with voltage high, low, and in between, it had just enough power to stub out the wire, bend it over, arc after a second, burn off the wire, and leave a curl of bent wire stuck. Nothing I could call a weld was possible.

    We went, and got mine. Plugged it in, and welded flawlessly. Mine was set up with .035 hard wire, using the stock gun it came with, and we didn't take the time to change it. We did not take the time to switch components from one to the other.

    I'm lobbying to send it out to a Miller authorized service center.

    Any suggestions?

    Willie
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    46

    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    feed rollers worn? If not, then probably problem with the gun or wire feed liner. Something that isn't a problem feeding solid wire but shows up with the weaker dualshield.

  3. #3
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    They did not have the correct rollers, but that doesn't explain the inability to burn the wire. This stuff hit the plate, bent into a curl, and a second later, made contact. It'd get red hot as more wire was feeding, and melt off in a little curl. The gun was a Weldmark, I believe to have been the cheapest gun the secretary could find on the internet. The tip kept falling out, I'd say something is missing. I did wonder if contact is properly being made at the tip.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    central Wis.
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Get the right rollers and a decent gun and it will work flawless. Make sure roller alignment is correct as well.
    Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    You know the routine. Call Diana.
    M-25 15 foot.If its a perma flux rig get the teflon liner. Flimsyazz garbage will slide right through with little to no roller tension( half of the problem I'm sure). Hard wire guys always tighten too much for flux core crap...........and aluminum.

  6. #6
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    Dec 2010
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Are you using the toothed rollers and backing off the tension? Always helps to have a new clean liner. Any time lube has been used there is a good chance that lube gummed up and is creating drag and thus birdnesting. I gave up on lube a long time ago and have no problems.

    Dual shield. Is that DCEN or DCEP? Why not just use metal-core and c25 gas?
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  7. #7
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    Dec 2010
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    As I recall the 252 has run-in adjustment. Could that be fuxxed up?
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Hermiston, OR
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    I'm an electrician, just as you are Willie.

    Troubleshooting should always be done with a solid baseline to work from. I always make sure the basics are in proper working order before I start making assumptions that they can't be part of the problem.

    I'd throw the proper rollers and a new tip at it and go from there.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    1,103

    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Could it be that the wires that wrap around the cable near where it inserts into the machine are broken? If they used the gun to pull the machine around it can happen. I made that mistake years ago on my first welder and had to replace the whole cable assembly. The gun would feed wire and arc a bit but not weld.
    Millermatic 252 MIG
    Miller Dynasty 200DX TIG
    Miller Spectrum 375 Plasma
    Altas 12x36 Metal Lathe
    Bridgeport Milling Machine
    www.psacustomcreations.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    CT
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    3,038

    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Willie why not temporarily swap one of your guns onto that machine and see if it solves the problem?
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  11. #11
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    Jun 2012
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Oh and what is the ground situation? Is the work lead on their machine OK? Could always be a ground issue.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  12. #12
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Thanks for the suggestions. I took it upon myself to figure it out. I took the gun, wire, rollers, guide, and weldor from mine. It works great! Louie; I did find the very high end ground clamp has lost much of it's spring, it needed a little nurturing. I'd guess it comes down to rough handling, and cheap replacement consumables. They did have the wrong rollers, a cheap Weldmark gun, a plastic wire guide big enough for 1/16 wire running .035 wire. The contact tip falls out, I haven't figured that detail yet. It won't conduct well if it falls out. The liner has no obvious issues, but might be full of dirt. And, Radnor wire may, or may not be good.

    I have long said these people can break cannon balls.

    Dual Shield is fun to run!

    Willie
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  13. #13
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Dual Shield is fun...I may have to swap guns this week and find something to weld.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    minnesota
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Maybe they need to buy a new one so you can take that one off their hands
    Millermatic 252
    millermatic 175
    miller 300 Thunderbolt
    lincoln ranger 250
    smith torches
    lots of bfh's
    If it dont fit get a bigger hammer

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    city of Four Flags
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Willie, my 252 was giving me feeding fits. It would feed and weld fine then the next weld it would sputter and burn back. I tried different guns, different brands of wire, different sizes of wire, different size spools.....same thing.
    One day I had the lid up and was directly over the drive rolls looking down and noticed the outlet guide(nipple on the back end of the gun) was not lined up with the drive rolls. I made that simple adjustment and the problem disappeared.
    Adjustment screw is in the center of the drive roll carrier.

  16. #16
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3 View Post
    Willie, my 252 was giving me feeding fits. It would feed and weld fine then the next weld it would sputter and burn back. I tried different guns, different brands of wire, different sizes of wire, different size spools.....same thing.
    One day I had the lid up and was directly over the drive rolls looking down and noticed the outlet guide(nipple on the back end of the gun) was not lined up with the drive rolls. I made that simple adjustment and the problem disappeared.
    Adjustment screw is in the center of the drive roll carrier.
    My MM252 is notorious for bird nesting .023. I manage with ultra light pressure on the rollers, alignment, and a slightly longer stick out than usually recommended. I do have a dedicated 100 amp, short gun for the .023"

    I can't say one specific problem with the customer's gun.

    A: It is the cheapest gun the secretary was able to find.
    B: It gets mistreated in the worst ways. I don't think it has ever been used that it wasn't run over by a forklift.
    C: Little pieces get lost.
    D: Parts get assembled wrong order, cross threaded, backward. I have no resource for Weldmark info, but I'm confident they have some provision to retain the contact tip.

    I did visually inspect the alignment, and found it OK, except for the plastic wire guide that probably left Miller in 2007. It was worn out one side to the extent I believe sometimes the wire didn't pass through the grooves in the rollers.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  17. #17
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    Apr 2011
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    Friend of mine works for a large manufacturing company. They had guys welding contact tips in because they couldn’t figure out how they locked in place.
    Millermatic 252
    millermatic 175
    miller 300 Thunderbolt
    lincoln ranger 250
    smith torches
    lots of bfh's
    If it dont fit get a bigger hammer

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    46

    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    threads like this makes me glad of Binzel being the dominant brand of guns/torches around here. Good design, screw in contact tips, friction fit gas shrouds, good quality materials, etc. And excellent value for money.

  19. #19
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    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    The stock gun on mine held up well from 2010 to last year. I tried Dual Shield for the first time, it runs HOT! I melted the stock gun first thing. I rebuilt the M25 and use it for hard wire. I bought a Bernard 400 amp gun for .045 Dual Shield.

    I have three guns, plus a spool gun, All have a good tip retainer system. I bet Weldmark had one too. Something has suffered the curse of this facility.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    bar stool
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    664

    Re: Useless Millermatic 252

    The factory gun on my GENUINE MILLER MM-200 is still original. I still have some replacement gun parts from when I bought the machine in 1981. That gun does seem to get heavier and more cumbersome as it ages.

    It probably lasted so long cause it was never subjected to GirlyGas.
    Sure ate a bunch of tips in the process of running a couple thousand pounds of steel wire and a liner or 3 as well.

    Miller sure built good machines before ITW came along.

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