sic MOSFET welders
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  1. #1

    sic MOSFET welders

    IGBT were a bit of a revolution, but now there are mosfets aade from new materials like silicon carbide or gallium nitride that have lower losses and can handle the same voltages. SIC made the inverter for the Tesla 3 about a quarter the size of the one from the Tesla s.

    I found one company called ajaxtocco making large automated welders from SIC. Has anyone heard anything about red or blue working on new inverter welders that use these? Or green I guess given where the things are made.

    A lunchbox a quarter the size would be rediculous. But an inverter that got 50% more amps on 120v would be a game changer.

  2. #2
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Quote Originally Posted by nten View Post
    .................................................. .................................................. ........

    A lunchbox a quarter the size would be rediculous. But an inverter that got 50% more amps on 120v would be a game changer.
    Well regardless of how efficient the circuitry is, you can't get more out than what is put in. Volts to amps ratio. All you can do is change the size of the package.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  3. #3

    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Igbts have a lot higher losses than MOSFET so more of the input makes it to the output in a sic MOSFET inverter.

  4. #4
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Traditional welders have about 80% efficiency. Inverter-based welders get you about 5% more.
    Source: https://www.millerwelds.com/resource...wer-efficiency

  5. #5
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Quote Originally Posted by nten View Post
    Igbts have a lot higher losses than MOSFET so more of the input makes it to the output in a sic MOSFET inverter.
    Each has it's attributes but having said that, the most common 120 volt circuit in the U.S. is a 15 amp circuit. There is not much more that can be derived out of that than is already being done, stick or wire.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #6
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    The majority of input electrons saved with an inverter as opposed to a conventional transformer machine come from reduction of electrons used to cool the machine itself.
    This was argued out and established over 10 years ago.

    ITW makes and sells welding machines, and they will say and do anything to get an ignorant person to buy the next generation of blue box. They got nothing else to peddle to bring bucks into that column on the ledger.

    I guess you kids missed the great plastic spacers are better than wood and cardboard spacers campaign between ITW miller department and Lincoln. Plastic saved 1 penny per machine because it didn't absorb varnish. That savings was quickly offset by spending on the Mad Dad motorcycle.

    You probably missed the Red/blue war of software in TIG machines in the 80s too.

    Just like fume removal, you can't take out what ain't coming in. No hunk of plastic beyond a piezio device has ever created an electron, and pizeos are a lousy exchange of mechanical for electrons since Evinrude developed them to fire spark plugs.

    Advertising don't melt metal, never has and probably never will.

  7. #7

    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Yeah 50‰ is wildly optimistic. 50% better than igbt is believable. Which would be maybe 2% overall.

    https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Sic+mosfet

    But 75% smaller would be useful.

  8. #8
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Hmm. With the advances in battery technology maybe. Say you have 1000 watts of solar power, a 2500 watt inverter and batteries. When you use 2500 watts, you only need to draw 1500 of it from the batteries at a time. Granted, this needs to be replentished, but you get the idea.
    Perhaps a unit made with the typical 20-30% duty cycle could incorporate a small battery bank to up the weld power, and charge during cool off?
    Arent there already battery powered welders now? Wonder if they do similar.
    Another edit...
    Hobart trek 180. Battery and 115 volt welder, rated at 17 volts, 120 amps, 30% duty cycle, 180 amps max. Jody did a couple vids with one in them.
    Last edited by Poleframer; 09-17-2018 at 12:07 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    ITW crapped the bed on battery welders about 10 years back if not more.
    Brief flash in the pan and recall the clunkers not sold to some victim to minimize bychin by the remaining ITW Dealers.

    Hobart Beta Testers wanted the time bombsout of their shops before they cooked off into flame from battery issues.

    BUT
    Fear NOT.
    I understand IPhone 12X will contain a 1/8 hole in the side to hold a 1/8 7024 rod, and a 15 year old kid who can't distinguish welded from clamped is working on an app.

  10. #10
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    you need watts to weld and even if welding machine 20% more efficient you only talking maybe 10 or 20 amps more
    .
    but smaller welding machines that can hook on you belt i can see happening. obviously if in a shop you can unhook from your belt. machines the size of 1/2 gallon of milk i can see happening with over 200 welding amp capability

  11. #11
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil5 View Post
    ITW crapped the bed on battery welders about 10 years back if not more.
    Brief flash in the pan and recall the clunkers not sold to some victim to minimize bychin by the remaining ITW Dealers.

    Hobart Beta Testers wanted the time bombsout of their shops before they cooked off into flame from battery issues.

    BUT
    Fear NOT.
    I understand IPhone 12X will contain a 1/8 hole in the side to hold a 1/8 7024 rod, and a 15 year old kid who can't distinguish welded from clamped is working on an app.
    battery welders its the
    1) cost of the batteries
    2) time to recharge
    3) how long can you weld before batteries discharged
    .
    if it cost over $1000. and takes 8 hours to charge and only welds for 10 or 20 minutes that would inconvenient compared to just getting a small gasoline internal combustion engine inverter generator welder

  12. #12
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Context is everything. Not talking about replacing 220v shop duty welders, but for limited use field welders that can be run off of an extension cord to do railing or other field jobs, or limited 115v use I could see a place for it vs the currently available 115v welders, or home shop use.
    A 115 v welder that can put out 130 amps vs 90 amps would certainly have its place.
    Now, wether that place has enough use to warrent manufacturing, the market would tell.
    I like the idea tho.

  13. #13
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    I'm savin up for the Welding phone.

    Till then I'll run real welders and leave the kiddie work to children.

  14. #14
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    A 15A 120V circuit delivers 1,800 nominal watts. If the voltage across the arc is, maybe, 20V, that suggests the most you can get out of a constant current welder is about 90A. Electronics may be able to deliver short bursts more than that, but as another has posted, you can't get out more than is put in. To get 130A from a 120V outlet, it would have to be on a 30A breaker or have some way to store up energy (big capacitors) to give any reasonable duty cycle.
    Last edited by ScratchStart; 09-20-2018 at 05:14 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    I am not an electronics guy but the articles I have read indicate that the inverter welder is doing the job with one tenth the weight. So an 800 pound transformer rectifier can be replaced with an eighty pound inverter. They do their magic by changing the alternating current to extremely high cycles per second. Tens of thousands per second instead of your regular 60 hertz at the wall outlet. This allows the transformer to be very small but carry the same power as a transformer weighing hundreds of pounds.
    I will leave the decision of what type of electronic switching device is better but it is not going to make the huge savings in weight and copper which is the purpose of the modern welding inverter power source unless you can increase the cycles per second even higher.

  16. #16
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    I thought mosfet welders were ticking time bombs.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  17. #17
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    Re: sic MOSFET welders

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    I thought mosfet welders were ticking time bombs.
    Depends on the design and components.
    I have power circuits that I built 10-15 years ago that are still working fine.
    If you have a poor design and sub standard components, things won't last very long at all.

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