Opinion on inverter welders - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Thanks, Shovelon. Yeah, I normally use them at least once a week or so, but in the winter, they might sit for a month or so without being powered up. Will pay more attention to that now.

  2. #52
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Whatever the case on the power conversion efficiency, the OP might be interested to know other things about inerters, such as the fact that sometimes they quit working, and they have so many electronics and boards and sub-boards and spaghetti that even experts have a tough time diagnosing which puzzle piece got bent, so you can spend $$$ throwing parts and boards at a machine, and it will only burn them out again as soon as you power up because the faulty part is still faulty ... hidden somewhere in all the mish mash.

    So it becomes a crap shoot of "Do I spend another $400 on part C?" which just burns out and maybe takes some more stuff out with itself...or do I face reality, throw it in a ditch and get a transformer for a fraction of the price which has worked fine for the past 50 years and will still be working fine 50 years after I'm dead?

    Do ya feel lucky?
    We still have the first generation MILLER XMT 304's. These machines have been used daily with no issues. Pipe welding daily with 500' to 600' cable on them. I don't know what machines you know about but these have been bullet proof. Even the MILLER CST 280's have been great. These run 6010 and 7018 all day long. Another inverter from MILLER.
    Biggest maintenance is blowing them out. Job Sites are pretty dusty.
    These machines are run in all sorts of temperature ranges and conditions. Not sitting in a shop .
    We still have the old school giant transformer ones too. It takes two guys to move those around safely. Yes they are good but sometimes avaiable power is insufficient. Thats where the inverter multi volt excel. Just connect and the machine does the rest.
    I don't know where your quit working comes from and it could happen . I'm confident there are more that work daily then quit working. You will get that with anything.

  3. #53
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    I just now called Lincoln technical support re this capacitor charging thing. As my list below states I have both a SW200 tig and a 210 MP machine and after readings Shovelon's posts was concerned about popping capacitors in one or both of them. I use the 210 MP fairly frequently, the sw200 less. The Lincoln tech confirmed what Shovelon says as it applies to larger welders which he says have a special board in them (I forget what he called it?) and if they sit for a long time they need to be plugged in and turned on for awhile so the capacitors can charge up. He said the new, small, inverter machines like my two guys do not have this board in them and do not require this. However, he said when using the little guys on a generator you need to do it on 230v and set the generator on high idle before turning the welder on - don't just turn the welder on and let the draw from it ramp the RPMs up on the generator.

    I just thought I would share this.
    Lincoln Power Mig 210 MP
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  4. #54
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    We still have the first generation MILLER XMT 304's. These machines have been used daily with no issues. Pipe welding daily with 500' to 600' cable on them. I don't know what machines you know about but these have been bullet proof. Even the MILLER CST 280's have been great. These run 6010 and 7018 all day long. Another inverter from MILLER.
    Biggest maintenance is blowing them out. Job Sites are pretty dusty.
    These machines are run in all sorts of temperature ranges and conditions. Not sitting in a shop .
    We still have the old school giant transformer ones too. It takes two guys to move those around safely. Yes they are good but sometimes avaiable power is insufficient. Thats where the inverter multi volt excel. Just connect and the machine does the rest.
    I don't know where your quit working comes from and it could happen . I'm confident there are more that work daily then quit working. You will get that with anything.
    In my humble opinion, you are both right.

    When inverters break, they are broken. In other words, often not worth repairing.

    Many inverters work for a really long time until they pop smoke.
    Some not so much - even in the expensive models from real companies.
    Won't ever last as long as good transformers.
    But not carrying around the weight and using less electricity make inverters worth it to me.

    My 900 lb Airco was made in 1963. I'm sure it will die one day, but I'm currently still using it at my school job. Kids like the arc from it too.
    If a guy looks at the old wires in it, it's pretty amazing it lasted so long.
    My 2 Miller Dialarcs (one I brought to school) are both from the 70's.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  5. #55
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by jerje View Post
    He said the new, small, inverter machines like my two guys do not have this board in them and do not require this. However, he said when using the little guys on a generator you need to do it on 230v and set the generator on high idle before turning the welder on - don't just turn the welder on and let the draw from it ramp the RPMs up on the generator.

    I just thought I would share this.
    That's what I've heard for battery chargers like for my Milwaukee 18v fuel tools too.

    Some people have reported that they don't survive if a generator is allowed to idle up and down (for those that reduce the voltage output when at idle).
    Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 10-10-2018 at 09:43 PM.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  6. #56
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    That's what I've heard for battery charges like for my Milwaukee 18v fuel tools too.

    Some people have reported that they don't survive if a generator is allowed to idle up and down (for those that reduce the voltage output when at idle).
    Interesting... I haven't tried any of my m18 fuel chargers on a genny yet... but I have run my little Miller 211 inverter welder off a generac with the auto idle and always just flip the welder switch to idle up the welder.. I might just stop doing that...

    If I use the 120v plug on the welder it won't stay on high idle you have to bump the gun trigger to get it going but on the 230v plug as long as the 211 is on it stays high... I've ran it this way for a coupole years now but may change how I do things just in case

  7. #57

    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Mmock4 View Post
    In your above quote I would go with the Hobart. The saying you get what you pay for applies in this scenario specifically. TIG/MIG/STICK All for $570 is not going to be good, A truly good multiprocess welder will cost twice that at the bare minimum. I guarantee you that the duty cycle and max amperage is going to suffer in all three processes. You can only fit so much welder in one box. Remember you are paying a retail markup on that $570, 3 processes divided by 570 is $190. That’s really scraping the bottom of the bucket when it comes to manufacturing those machines, and again remember.. that’s marked up. Really the manufacturer spent maybe 1/3-1/2 that to produce it. The low price indicates low quality, and that means it’s probably a disposable piece of junk.

    Inverters in general are good, transformers are good. Both are out there building America everyday, but the type of machine isn’t your problem here, it’s the quality.

    If you were paying $570 for MIG only, meaning all $570 was used to manufacture the machine. You might be able to scrape by, but even my cheap Chinese MIG welder cost more than that. Even if we are sending them to China there is still a minimum line on the cost to produce a decent product. Price point is what you’re looking for, there’s an average price to get into a decent welding machine, anything that falls below that line is generally a waste of money.

    Yeah I've decided to go with the hobart. But from what i gather on here and info from different sites, i think I'll be lookin for an inverter later on, for sure. Btw thanks to all for all your input really appreciate it. Thank you all very much.

  8. #58

    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Lol ! funny scene in that movie !

  9. #59
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    "Yeah I've decided to go with the hobart. But from what i gather on here and info from different sites, i think I'll be lookin for an inverter later on, for sure. Btw thanks to all for all your input really appreciate it. Thank you all very much."

    Man, all of this for that!

  10. #60
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    I wish they would push the inverter MIGs more.
    For professional shop use, say 300-400 amp MIG machines, all of our LWS mostly still sell transformer based machines. There are a few 200 amp inverter MIGs and a few truly top end 400 amp machines, but the rest are all still transformers.
    I'm just waiting til inverter pulse MIGs are more commonplace and I can pick up a decent second hand machine.

    Lots of 140-200amp MMA inverters, which is only a good thing... you really can't beat a small single phase inverter for handy weld repair work.
    And of course, you can barely even find a transformer TIG welder for sale any more.

  11. #61
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    And of course, you can barely even find a transformer TIG welder for sale any more.
    All the smart people are hanging on to theirs.
    12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.
    I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829

  12. #62
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by VPT View Post
    All the smart people are hanging on to theirs.
    Yeah, there is alot of copper to recycle.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  13. #63
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Yeah, there is alot of copper to recycle.
    Actually the ratio of iron to copper is about 20/1.

    It's OK to bow to the program though if you want to be a welding machine operator instead of a weldor.

  14. #64
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    The idea of having a back up welder never crossed my mind till I got an inverter machine in my shop.
    12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.
    I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829

  15. #65
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil5 View Post
    Actually the ratio of iron to copper is about 20/1.

    It's OK to bow to the program though if you want to be a welding machine operator instead of a weldor.
    Good point. Not enough copper to make it worth it.

    The programs are tools. If you don't know how to use the tool, then you are one. My big Dynasty's have 18 memory stations for programs. I can tailor waveforms, pulse cycles, amplitude ratios, frequencies, preflows and post flows. What's wrong with that?

    I still have 2 cars with carbs and mechanical fuel pumps. Does not make them better than my digital cars.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  16. #66
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by VPT View Post
    The idea of having a back up welder never crossed my mind till I got an inverter machine in my shop.
    Kind of nice that I have 15 welders and 6 weldors to work them. We all are more productive with the inverters. I also hoarded about 1000 tungsten electrodes. Life is good.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

  17. #67
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    I don't really think of my other welders as backups.... I just like machinery


    a thousand tungstens what do your guys do with them.... lawn darts

  18. #68
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Good point. Not enough copper to make it worth it.

    The programs are tools. If you don't know how to use the tool, then you are one. My big Dynasty's have 18 memory stations for programs. I can tailor waveforms, pulse cycles, amplitude ratios, frequencies, preflows and post flows. What's wrong with that?

    I still have 2 cars with carbs and mechanical fuel pumps. Does not make them better than my digital cars.
    I'd splain it to you, but first I gotta finish setting up the girls in the art room to produce Toll Gate signs for the new line of Kits I'll be selling to hobby weldebaters next month, just in time for Christmas.
    If you get on the list early I can damn near guarantee delivery in time for you to get your personal toll gate assembled before January 2019.

  19. #69
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Good point. Not enough copper to make it worth it.

    The programs are tools. If you don't know how to use the tool, then you are one. My big Dynasty's have 18 memory stations for programs. I can tailor waveforms, pulse cycles, amplitude ratios, frequencies, preflows and post flows. What's wrong with that?

    I still have 2 cars with carbs and mechanical fuel pumps. Does not make them better than my digital cars.
    The Airco 300 is far superior in weight than those fancy Dynasty machines

    Carbs are way better than digital on cars. I don't even get to pump the pedal twice before turning the key anymore.

    But electronic fuel injection is a necessity on 4 wheelers, Miller welders and Harleys.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  20. #70
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    No way are carbs better than digital on cars. I restore dual carb setups for all of the early 60s muscle cars and while neat looking as all get out, and good running for what they were, they can't hold a candle to modern multi-port fuel injection with digital engine management. These modern hot rods are constantly adjusting air/fuel ratios, timing, everything, in real time as you go, and you don't have to worry about detonation, lag, or anything. It is all covered up usually with a big plastic thing on top of the engine and looks like hell, but boy do they make horsepower.
    Lincoln Power Mig 210 MP
    Lincoln SquareWave Tig 200
    Miller Spectrum 125c
    Oxy/Acetylene
    Optrel e684
    Lathe and Milling Machines

  21. #71
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Dear car makers:
    Please feel free to take your CanBus wind it into a tight ball and insert it into your rectum.

  22. #72
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil5 View Post
    Dear car makers:
    Please feel free to take your CanBus wind it into a tight ball and insert it into your rectum.
    Amen. Couldn't agree more.
    Kemppi minarc 150
    Esab powercut 400

  23. #73
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    I tend to repair welders on a semi regular basis and I seem to fix an equal number of inverters and transformer welders. Many newer transformer welders have circuit boards that rival inverters in complexity. Inverters have won me over for their power to weight ratio and their dual voltage ability. The ability to run multiple processes with one box is also nice.
    My "collection":

    Homemade Stick Welder
    Victor O/A Torch
    AC 225
    Ideal Arc 250

    HF 90 Amp Flux Core
    HF Mig 170
    Solar 2020 Plasma Cutter
    Power i-Mig 140E
    Harris O/A torch
    HF Dual Mig 131
    140ST
    Alpha Tig 200x

  24. #74
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by jerje View Post
    No way are carbs better than digital on cars. I restore dual carb setups for all of the early 60s muscle cars and while neat looking as all get out, and good running for what they were, they can't hold a candle to modern multi-port fuel injection with digital engine management. These modern hot rods are constantly adjusting air/fuel ratios, timing, everything, in real time as you go, and you don't have to worry about detonation, lag, or anything. It is all covered up usually with a big plastic thing on top of the engine and looks like hell, but boy do they make horsepower.


    But carbs will almost always get you home (if you got a screw driver). A failure on an efi car usually means a trailer.
    12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.
    I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829

  25. #75
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    Re: Opinion on inverter welders

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsii View Post
    I don't really think of my other welders as backups.... I just like machinery


    a thousand tungstens what do your guys do with them.... lawn darts
    Each bench gets 2 to 3each 1/8" tungstens for alum work. They dress them as necessary and swap them while welding as not to be running to the belt sander so often. For reference I am almost done with a year long job building over 300 lengths of stage truss that are used on awards shows. All heavy alum pipe and tube rated for stunt work.

    Each bench gets 10 3/32" tungstens for steel work. We keep them needle sharp and dress both ends for swapping. When all 20 ends are fouled they head to the belt sander. Saves time. These are used for production steel work, stainless sheet metal and such.

    We are a production tig shop and I like to buy closouts on ebay deep and cheap. And I have all blends and sizes to suit the jobs at hand. I have a bunch of 5/32" for work with my Dynasty700.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200withspoolgun,MKCobra Mig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig3ea.

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