How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    15

    How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    So, I am mostly self-taught. I learned stick welding mainly with 6013 and 7018. Usually prefer 7018 when I can use it (often have to weld lots of thinner metal 14ga or less). For that, I use the Mig.

    My stick welder is [currently] a cheap Amico 160 (Amazon, $150.. hey.. it has great reviews). Thing has worked incredibly great so far. I can run some (to me) pretty nice beads. I originally learned [to stick weld] on an old Powcon inverter - but sold it few years ago. So, below are some sample beads... just to give you all an idea of where I am. No professional by any means, but have welded some fairly critical things in the past (including a couple trailer hitches that survived some bad accidents/hits). Probably should not have done it - but.. well.. Anyway, here it is:

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    And a corner joint:

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    So.. the above said... I have learned how strike and hold a tight arc.. but I just cannot run a 6010/11. Now.. let me say: I have not actually TRIED a 6010 because I have an inverter welder. But multiple sources have told me that the 6011 (for AC) works well with inverters. Well.. not for me lol...

    What happens: the rod just sticks and sticks. When I crank it up, it just wants to bite through the metal. And the arc is... nasty.. Like... really "angry". Getting a smooth steady arc with this rod has seemed impossible. I thought perhaps because I was running my [dual voltage] welder on 120.. Well, no better on 220. When I crank the power back down to where it is not burning through the metal, it will NOT stay lit, wants to stick, go out, etc. I have been using 3/32" rods. Perhaps I need to practice with larger rods? Is it the welder, or the welder? Lol... Which welder is to blame here?

    Learning 6010/11 is not very important - or something I *need*, but have heard it is useful for the fast-freeze feature and eating through dirty metal surfaces (field repairs). This certainly has always appealed to me. Besides.. 6010/11 is the rod of real men :-)

    - Dean

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bemidji MN
    Posts
    13,528

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    Biting into the metal with an angry arc is its job

    This video may help.

    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    600

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    ^ He’s right! E6010/11 has a digging arc and fast freezing puddle, most renown for root passes and also good for use on less than clean material. The arc penetrates(or bites as you said) deeply, and with aggressive action. I’ve come to the conclusion after burning on some cheap inverters that 6011 needs a few more amps due to the lower voltage to keep it running. Crank it up high enough so the rod won’t go out on you, you should be able to draw up to say 3/16” or so long arcing. It should be about right, but experimentation is definitely advised. Watch the linked video and some others on technique.

    But rest assured the characteristics you describe about E6010/11 are typical. The rod digs in front of the puddle, and then you must back travel, pause, and deposit weld metal into the the area where you just dug out. These rods do not run at all similarly to E6013, or E7018. Those rods are just drag and deposit, 6013 is mild penetration, 7018 is medium. 6010/11 is deep and aggressive.
    -Mark Smith

    Vulcan ProTig200
    Vulcan MigMax 215
    Hypertherm PowerMax45 Xp

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northwest Missouri
    Posts
    1,028

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    Yep, 6011 is an “angry” rod. No bacon sizzling about it, just get down and dirty digging the rust and paint out welding. That’s why the old saying is “Half the farms in America are held together with 6011 rod and the other half are held together with 6013 rod.”

    I’ve never tried it with an inverter but with my old Thunderbolt 3/32” 6011 worked well at around 85 to 90 amps AC. My Dial Arc would run it a bit lower amp but those are just WAGs to get you started and I would fine tune the amps to suit the prevailing atmospheric conditions of the day and other variables. Don’t be afraid to experiment.

    Another nicety about 6011 is that it isn’t picky about storage. Humidity doesn’t bother it at all and the flux doesn’t chip off easily in transport. I’ve burned more than a few sticks of rod that had been kept under the truck seat for a few years.
    Roger
    Old, Tired, and GRUMPY

    Salesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!

    Dial Arc 250HF
    Thunderbolt 225 AC/DC

    Assorted A/O torches

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    15

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    So I am going to do some practise later this evening...

    I have been running these rods around 50-60 amps. The actual box (these are Lincoln rods - I generally do not buy anything else) says range from 40-80 amps (I think) and..hence.. have kept the amperage lower.

    I will give them a shot at 80-90 and report back. Now that I know the harsh "spray" of these rods is correct - and the couple videos I have watched - I think I can get these wrangled in.

    One other thing.. is it normal for the 3/32 6011 rods to start glowing red a couple inches from the end? Mine do. Another reason I have kept the amperage low.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northwest Missouri
    Posts
    1,028

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    Yes, they can glow from time to time. Comes in handy on windy days to light your cigarette.

    Go smoke some rods and post pics. BTW the Lincoln rods are good, I usually smoked Hobart but that is a regional thing more than a preference. The local farm emporium sells a brand called KT, may just be me, but I really dislike that crap. I think it is repacked import stuff and doesn’t perform.
    Roger
    Old, Tired, and GRUMPY

    Salesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!

    Dial Arc 250HF
    Thunderbolt 225 AC/DC

    Assorted A/O torches

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    580

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    Interestingly, I have this machine on my Amazon wish list along with three others. That sparkler rod won't stay lit is not unusual with an inverter. Give some 6013, 7014 a go. Hell, 7018. I've read the usual dicey reviews but it would be nice to have some input to one who's actually using one. My experience is that rod angle has a lot of say in the matter. It's not unusual when running little sparkler rod that that the whole friggin thing will be bright red when 1/3rd away from the end.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    15

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    Interestingly, I have this machine on my Amazon wish list along with three others. That sparkler rod won't stay lit is not unusual with an inverter. Give some 6013, 7014 a go. Hell, 7018. I've read the usual dicey reviews but it would be nice to have some input to one who's actually using one. My experience is that rod angle has a lot of say in the matter. It's not unusual when running little sparkler rod that that the whole friggin thing will be bright red when 1/3rd away from the end.
    Okay gents, so an update - and while I am at it, I will give an **unofficial** review of this welder.

    Again, if anyone is wondering which welder I am using... It is the Amico 160A. I am using this welder on a dedicated 220 volt circuit. Here is a link: https://www.amazon.com/Amico-Power-I.../dp/B01FKR3MM0

    Now, before I get crazy - here are some pics of my latest 6011 attempts lol:

    Attachment 1692725

    Attachment 1692726

    Attachment 1692727

    Now I will explain the pics. All the beads above were done with Lincoln 6011 3/32 rods. Brand new box. Amperage was set at 86. At this amperage, I do not get much stickage, the rod [at first] seems to run good - minus my lack of experience.

    But here is what is happening: first, the rod runs hot and good. Because this is 86 amps on a 3/32" rod, it burns QUICK. Far quicker than I am used to. So my travel speed is not very consistent. I am searching some 1/8 inch 6011 now to try and see if it makes it easier for me.

    The bigger issue comes into play after I have used a bit more than half the electrode. The welder feels like it goes... cold. Like I loose 20 amps (or more). Can hardly keep it lit, the arc goes SUPER soft and barely wants to melt the base metal. This happens consistently with each 6011 rod I use. Starts out hot - like I could probably push the rod through the metal if I wanted to. And after half the rod, the arc just looses all force.

    Any thoughts on why this would happen? Perhaps I am just asking too much of a $150 welder? lol..

    Regarding the welder, Yofish:

    It runs 6013 and 7018 buttery smooth. Could not be happier. Have welded some 1/4 inch plate steel and angle iron with ease. Even on 120V, this thing really puts out some heat. I was using it on a 30 amp 120 volt circuit for months before re-wiring the shop with a 220 volt welding outlet. And never tripped a breaker or had any issues on the 120.

    The only issue I have (besides trying to run 6011) had is something odd with 7018 (does not do this with 6013). Sometimes, it wants to start "soft" or "cold". Like... the amerage is just not right. But after a few seconds, it gets to digging and firing just fine. I have deduced it is an amperate issue because of the bad porous (lots of spongy holes) nature of the weld when I started. Not always, but sometimes. I have noticed it does NOT do this as bad now that I use it on 220. Still feels a little soft at first-start sometimes, but not as bad as before (on 120). 6013? It eats that all day. I must also say: I have only ever run 3/32 rod on this machine (thus far). Now that I have it connected to 220, I will be purchasing some 1/8" rod to test.

    All in all, I love the machine. And after Amazons screw up, the machine (and 3 packs of electrodes) was 100% FREE. So, I certainly cannot complain about ANYTHING. I plan to buy an AHP AlphaTig 200x in a couple months. Have heard they do very well with stick - including 6011. Still no 6010, but I do not handle any code work, so meh.. I am hoping this machine helps my stick welding even more when I get it.

    A side note.. I got to play with a Fornius a few months back and... damn.... I mean... wow. Yeah... a quality welder DOES seem to make a difference. The arc seemed so... smooth and.. wow. I ran some 7018, but it was a very noticable difference from my little Amico 160 lol.

    My logic is: if you can dodge a car, you can dodge a ball... Err.. wrong movie lol.. Seriously.. if you can hone your skills (stick welding at least) on a cheap machine.. I feel it is very rewarding to upgrade to something better/nicer. Sure, I $5000+ would have made learning easier over the years.. but.. NOW that I have a good handle on the basics using the chinese stuff, as I start buying better gear it will only be better.
    Last edited by deanrantala; 10-11-2018 at 03:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    15

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    Sorry... image uploads seem to have got messed up when I edited the post:

    Some test runs (go easy on me!):
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    Another test run, fresh rod - after half-a-rod, no more:
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    Picture of the [failed?] rod next to a new one:
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    Also, about my technique: I am trying a whip/pause, 1 step 2 step... But damn. The rod is burning so fast I have little time to control much of anything. This is why I am thinking [perhaps?] a 1/8" rod will make it easier for me? More metal to burn, will not burn so quickly? The entire rod I am currently using will basically be on fire [literally] after half-consumption. Again, this is due to the extra amperage needed to make it run on my welder. The rod is rated 40-80 amps, I am running 86. 80 or less... it starts sticking, just does not want to run correct.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    600

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    86 amps really isn’t wild and crazy, hot, yes. But not overly so. By all means pick up a lb of 1/8” rod, there will of course be a corresponding amperage increase. However, the larger puddle is a little easier to see, and the extra stiffness of the thicker electrode makes it less whippy.

    Those beads don’t look too bad, better than many of the first efforts I’ve seen in my welding class. IF anything I would say travel a little faster, that doesn’t mean whip farther mind you! Just that you are going to go the same distance forward and back, but at a faster pace. That would be my advice for you to work towards.

    Edit to add: Start at the edge, draw a line to follow and stack those puppies! don’t leave all of that space between them! 1/3-1/2 overlap! Don’t waste that good material!
    Last edited by Mmock4; 10-11-2018 at 06:51 PM.
    -Mark Smith

    Vulcan ProTig200
    Vulcan MigMax 215
    Hypertherm PowerMax45 Xp

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    15

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    Okay... so..

    I have spent the better part of the afternoon just practicing. Man... this damn rod is really making me understand the meaning of "arc control".

    So, I have backed the amps down to 70-72-ish. Now, I am NOT experiencing the issue of the rod "fizzling out" after half-way consumed (although it DOES START to get like that towards the last 1.5 inches of rod).

    Also, I gave up (just for today - while I practice more) the whip/pause motion.. I decided to try some circles like I do with my MIG, and whoduthunkit... Starting to look like little dimes:

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    Actually, the circular motion is [for me, at the moment] just "feels" easier. On 7018 and 6013 I usually just drag or weave (side to side slightly) - especially with 7018. But with these 6011 rods, I find it easiest to hold a steady arc (about the width of the rod) in circles.

    So.. I have a creeping feeling there is nothing wrong with the Amico welder - just my simple lack of experience. It is now running that rod [apparently] just fine. I can only imagine how much easier life will be once I get a better power source.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    15

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    One other thing...

    I am really amazed how deep the arc cuts into that 1/4 inch plate steel as I make each new circle moving forward. These 6011's really do have a mean-as-hell bite.

    These should probably be my go-to rod when I cannot bevel two pieces of metal completely - no? I can imagine that with only a slight bevel - the 6011 will bite down through the rest.. come back over it with 7018? Or just keep rolling with 6011?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    600

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    6010/11 is used for its penetrating characteristics, so yes you should use it for situations where you know that another rod would not penetrate the material fully. 7018 fill and cap is standard procedure. On some materials you will be able to penetrate completely with 7018 in a butt joint configuration. 6010/11 will be your go to when you want assured penetration, welding bad fit ups, gaps/open roots, or on any material that you cannot get clean enough to be confident in running another rod. The deep digging aggressive action blasts all that crap into the molten weld pool, where it floats to the surface to evaporate.

    I myself use circles in the flat position, but find that I change between whip and pause, and circles for seemingly no reason, circles work ok for horizontal too, but for vertical and overhead I prefer whip and pause .
    -Mark Smith

    Vulcan ProTig200
    Vulcan MigMax 215
    Hypertherm PowerMax45 Xp

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    13

    Re: How am I doing with these welds, and... questions about 6010/11

    but I just cannot run a 6010/11.
    Are you certain that machine has enough voltage in order to run 6011? I cant see anywhere that states it will run that rod.

    If it were me, I would try the other welder with the same rod and see if it's your welders fault or not. In my opinion, 6011 is an easy rod to run and keep lit as long as the machine can handle it.

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