Operating pressure for Rose Bud
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  1. #1
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    Dec 2007
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    Central Ohio
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    Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Hello fellow Welders. Ok here’s my question. The other evening I had was at a local welding shop and a fellow was using an H frame press to punch out a shaft in a part and it wasn’t moving so he wheeled over the acetylene torch attached the rose bud to heat the part in the press. While doing so he bumped the torch against the part ( which happens ) and out went the torch and right away a flash back started. Pop Pop pop etc and the torch just above the handle began to turn orange. I yelled for him to shut the torch down. Once done the flash back stopped. I was looking at his setting and noticed he was running 45 psi oxygen and 10 lbs of acetylene. From what I remember is the a rose bud is to operate on equal pressure. Such as 8 and 8. If I’m correct by operating at the 10 lbs acetylene and 45lbs oxygen would be way to rich oxygen which would cause the head of mixer to become extremely hot which can cause the flash back. Let me know if I’m correct or full of Shxx%% T. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Oct 2015
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    This is going to open a big debate here on WW again. I will give you my 2 cents worth. I am sure someone will try to debate it . First all I can tell you is IMHO this is the safest way to run a rosebud. First of all there a diferent sizes of rosebuds, I will not deal with the smaller sized ones in this post.

    The number one problem encountered with running a rosebud is using too small of an acetylene tank. I would only use one with the largest acetylene tank made. The reason for this is that a good sized rosebud uses gas at a very high rate and it is very easy for it to use acetylene faster than the smaller tanks can convert it back to a gas.
    I have used a rosebud a lot in the past and have welded most of my adult life . With that said I do not own a rosebud and feel there are much cheaper/ safer ways to heat metal.
    Here is how I setup to run a rosebud. I run acetylene at 12-14lbs and oxygen at 15 to start with. I light the torch with acetylene only first then open the oxygen and adjust close to a nutral flame, then open the acetylene nob more and readjust close to neutral . I keep doing this until the acetylene nob is completely open and the oxygen nob is too. then to finish out setting the flame I raise the oxygen pressure at the regulator until I have either a neutral flame or just slightly less than neutral .

    Then I start using it to heat. I can not tell you what the finished oxygen pressure is because It is whatever it takes to get to a nutral flame or very slightly less than neutral depending on who you talk to. Do not snub the torch on the work or it will burn back into the torch, also keep the head out of any inside pocket that allow heat to flow back onto the torch. If you do it will burn back and or pop/ machine-gun .

    Make sure you have flashback arresters in place, I like to use the ones that go on the torch handle because they protect the hoses better.

    So let the flames begin , I stand by what I have stated and will not debate anyone else on it, to each their own.
    Last edited by thegary; 12-07-2018 at 06:13 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    I run an MFA6 at 25 O2 and about 8-10 acet.(100 series Victor handle) Rarely change it.
    It's the only rosehead I've ever owned or used........since Carter was pResident.
    Really for heat and bend more direct...like making a sorta 90 degree with a piece of 1/2 x 4" I just use a cutting head. More direct. 15 and 8 or so. Punch the O2 lever a little if needed

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    46

    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    I don’t have much experience with acetylene rose buds. But I’ve ran a few on propane. I’m thinking 10propane and 45 o2. And with propane, you never worry about over drawing the tank. Easy enough to swap a rig over for a few minutes of mega heating.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2012
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    Australia
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    I was actually doing some flame straightening of some structural beams today with a very small rosebud, and honestly I've never really thought about the right pressure, i tend to simply run the same as i do while cutting, which is about 15 psi of acetylene and about 40 on the O2.

    anytime I've run a large rosebud it's always been with propane, it's far cheaper.

    I'm interested to here what other's say about this.

  6. #6
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    Apr 2010
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud


    thegary


    x2 . . .


    Opus

  7. #7
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    Nov 2015
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    Northford, Connecticut
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    I’m just curious and this is kinda directed to Thegary but any member can chime in. What other means of heating metal do use use without a rosebud? Not just heating metal but to that nice cherry look we get with our rosebuds.


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  8. #8
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    This was to de-banana one of those do it yourself SWAG 44" finger brakes after I welded it. I just used a cutting head as I said above.It warped about an inch overall.These spots got it flat to within a 1/16 or better

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  9. #9
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    Mar 2014
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    NH
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Quote Originally Posted by crugg65 View Post
    I’m just curious and this is kinda directed to Thegary but any member can chime in. What other means of heating metal do use use without a rosebud? Not just heating metal but to that nice cherry look we get with our rosebuds.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I was wondering the same.

    Longtime ago I had to straighten a 120 pound steel casting that an employee twisted; I put a bag of charcoal in a heavy duty grill with an air line under... sorta a poor man's forge, worked great!
    Thunderbolt AC/DC
    330AB/P + Bernard cooler
    Syncrowave 250
    Oxy/Ace torch
    Dayton 160 MIG
    6CF pot with 185 compressor
    Too much big equipment
    Even more small tools

  10. #10
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    Oct 2015
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Quote Originally Posted by crugg65 View Post
    I’m just curious and this is kinda directed to Thegary but any member can chime in. What other means of heating metal do use use without a rosebud? Not just heating metal but to that nice cherry look we get with our rosebuds.


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    Many have already been stated in this thread but I will give a quick run down.

    1. Use a weed burner, if you need more heat use 2 weed burners.

    2. heat with a cutting tip

    3. They make heating only tips for cutting torches and cutting attachments, these will put out much more heat than a standard cutting tip and will replace all but the larger rosebud tips.

    4. BBQ grill to heat and post heat

    5. Forge

    6. Propane rosebud. This one has a few caveats . First you can also have a problem with using gas faster than a tank can convert it. It is much more forgiving than acetylene but it is still important to know. I would suggest using at least a 40lb tank but would prefer a 100lb tank. You still need to use flashback arresters and many of the safty concerns for acetylene still are in play.

    The acetylene rosebud does still have its place but IMHO can be replaced for 98% of uses.

    The advantage of an acetylene rosebud primarily is speed. It will heat fast, there are limited situations where this is a major advantage.
    Last edited by thegary; 12-08-2018 at 11:50 AM.

  11. #11
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    One more thing. I have found many companies now days want flashback arresters on both the gauges and the torch. They think that more is safer. In reality flashback arresters create a restriction and having 2 of them in line on a system makes it very difficult for a rosebud to work . It creates too much restriction and the acetylene flow is too low and makes the torch pop and burn back into the torch. In my experience I have had to remove one set of flashbacks for it to work.

  12. #12
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Quote Originally Posted by thegary View Post
    One more thing. I have found many companies now days want flashback arresters on both the gauges and the torch. They think that more is safer. In reality flashback arresters create a restriction and having 2 of them in line on a system makes it very difficult for a rosebud to work . It creates too much restriction and the acetylene flow is too low and makes the torch pop and burn back into the torch. In my experience I have had to remove one set of flashbacks for it to work.
    Uhmerka paranoia. Put the kick backs after and next to the regulators . If the hose blows........it'll be entertaining.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    54

    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Only Acetylene rosebud I run is pretty small. Enough to bend 3/4 round stock. Fits a small torch handle.

    Anyways, unless I've been doing it wrong for 2 decades, I run Acetylene at around 7-10psi, and O2 at about 10psi. Orifice in rosebud is large enough that it doesn't take much pressure to put out a lot of Oxygen. I believe other sizes would be equivalent, dunno. At the setting I use, it operates fine.

    For Propane. It's Propane at 15psi, and O2 at 45-60psi depending on size of heating tip.

    I use an Acetylene regulator, and hoses, for Propane (GASP!!!). Don't leave gas in the hoses when it's not in use, and it's fine. My Propane rig is probably about 8-10yrs old, and no problems.

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    Wow, big pics

    Biggest problem with heating tips is keeping the tip cool. It's cooled by gas flow. Because of this, it's necessary to keep the tip a reasonable distance from the work. You don't wanna shove it in there. Heat with the outer cone on Propane, and inner cone on Acetylene. These distances will allow the tip to adequately cool, and it won't pop, and flashback on ya.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    54

    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Some different settings for Cutting, Welding, and Heating.

    I imagine my little OA rosebud is in the "4" size range. O2 settings on larger rosebuds show higher psi.

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/scschoolfile...tip_charts.pdf

  15. #15
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    May 2017
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    17

    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Farmersamm

    Your acetylene is in the red (past 15) and your oxygen tank pressure is 0. This is for my education. Won’t the acetylene pressure above 15 put that tank at risk? How come there is no oxygen tank pressure?


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  16. #16
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    I usually follow Gary's steps pretty close. Only new rosebud tip I've ever purchased plainly states on it: "Use Equal Pressures". It is a genuine "Smith's" head too but a few years old now. I'm usually about 10psi acetylene pressure and close on oxygen. I've never used any other type fuel gas. Flashback arrestors are at the mixer handles.
    Slob

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    Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....

  17. #17
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    1) 99.9999% of torch tips easily run at 7 psi or less
    2) you close torch valve if it starts creeping higher psi you need to replace regulator as it can explode obviously
    .
    3) apprentices are taught open acetylene valve ignite and open valve further to acetylene flame has gap usually gap increases from less than 0.1 to over 0.3" when flow high enough. then flick torch every second slowly closing valve til flame back close to torch tip less than 0.1"........ this is flow rate enough to keep torch tip from overheating usually. also it should be enough to be not emitting heavy smoke or very little soot carbon if flame big enough
    .
    4) depending on regulator and length of hoses you might need 3 psi to 10psi. usually if you dont got enough flow from 10 psi its regulator not built to put out that much flow. common on really cheap less than $100. regulators
    .
    5) usually problem is somebody got too big a torch tip and running too low a psi cause too much heat and torch tip gets hot as the gas flow going through torch tip is what cools torch tip. cutting torch tips overheat often warp and leak by nut cause somebody running too low a flow and torch overheated (often see metal discolored far from torch tip indicating overheating)
    .
    6) many places if you got caught using over 10psi and especially over 13psi you would be fired from job.
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 12-11-2018 at 09:19 AM.

  18. #18
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    Dec 2018
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey.penfield View Post
    Farmersamm

    Your acetylene is in the red (past 15) and your oxygen tank pressure is 0. This is for my education. Won’t the acetylene pressure above 15 put that tank at risk? How come there is no oxygen tank pressure?


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    Aw Hell, I shoulda been clear on the pic. It's a propane rig. You don't have issues with withdraw rate on propane. Might freeze the regulator, but otherwise it's safe to pull a lot of gas out of a propane tank.

    The O2 is indeed empty, or near empty I use 150cf owner tanks. I might get about 4-5 minutes run time out of a small tank. Heating with propane takes a lot of oxygen.

  19. #19
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    Re: Operating pressure for Rose Bud

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    I usually follow Gary's steps pretty close. Only new rosebud tip I've ever purchased plainly states on it: "Use Equal Pressures". It is a genuine "Smith's" head too but a few years old now. I'm usually about 10psi acetylene pressure and close on oxygen. I've never used any other type fuel gas. Flashback arrestors are at the mixer handles.

    You and Farmersams posts prove my point about rosebuds. Some need more oxygen pressure than fuel gas , some do not. It all depends on the design and there are a million makers of rosebuds . If my directions are followed it will fit all brands . In the case of your Smith the finished oxygen pressure would be close to the manufacturers guide lines and the same is true of the Victores in Sams Victor chart because no more oxygen is introduced than what is needed to create a nutral flame. The important thing is the flow rate and by having the gas nobs all the way open that is insured.

    If you have big rosebud but do not need the max heat it can produce you lower your initial acetylene pressure and do the rest of the procedure as stated and it will work fine to a point. As the Victor chart shows rosebuds have a minimum flow rate needed also so if you lower acetylene pressure too much it will not work and you will have nothing but trouble with burn back,poping/ machine guning.
    Last edited by thegary; 12-11-2018 at 11:19 AM.

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