HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function
RSS | Subscribe | Contact Us | Advertise | About Us
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    I think the answer is clear but I can confirm based on what I am seeing. I would call them but I am easily swayed and wish to avoid making the purchase today LOL.

    Does the Invertig have AC/DC pulse mixing?

    Thank you!!
    Mike

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Draper, UT
    Posts
    346

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Not sure what you are asking. It does AC and DC pulse.

    Maybe you are talking about independent adjustment of the AC+ and AC- current settings which will introduce a DC component into the AC waveform, which it can do.
    Last edited by frieed; 12-14-2018 at 01:25 PM.
    MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45

    "No matter where you go, there you are" [Buckaroo Bonsai]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    I am sorry. You see, the problem is that as soon as I open my mouth, I am in over my head lol.

    Thank you for taking a stab at an answer! Yes I think that is what I meant. Making sparks is quite a bit more involved (or less intuitive) than making chips, or so it seems to me.

    Anyway, Everlast calls the function Advanced Pulse. On Al say, when the peak AC pulse stops, instead of nothing or a reduced amp pulse, a DC pulse is applied producing greater penetration. That's what I gleaned from observations on you tube Apparently it is somewhat uncommon and I could not be sure if the HTP unit could do it. I am at the precipice of making a decision on a machine. HTP has the lead though there are a couple of other temptations.


    Again, much appreciated!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,603

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    if you have the budget, you can't go wrong with the HTP. One of the most highly respected TIG welders on this forum and their customer service is excellent.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    if you have the budget, you can't go wrong with the HTP. One of the most highly respected TIG welders on this forum and their customer service is excellent.
    100% with you Sir! Actually, I guess it really doesn't matter what the answer is to that question, I probably would have already pulled the trigger if any were in stock. The only serious competition for me is from the Dynasty 210DX. The fact that in the past I have seen it at 25% or 30% off, makes the Dynasty a contender (at that discounted price). My only disappointments for the HTP is 10 max AC pulses per sec. and the high(er) min AC start amps.

    Thanks for your opinion!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,603

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    you are way off on the ac pulses. it goes up to 999 per second. And if you are going to sweat over 1 vs 4 amps starting current, you are the best welder in the world. Because virtually no one else can tell the difference.
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    With all due respect I think you may be misinformed. The DC pulse mod for steels goes to 999, AC is 10 but I will call Monday to confirm. Also the min amps is 4 but the arc starting <emphasis on START as noted> amps is 22 per the manual. Even if that is the case, you are indeed justified to suggest that I would notice or benefit from those differences or if they will ever matter to me. Actually, if ever became half good enough, I would probably have no problem working around those stats I.e. not burning through thin Al on start. I am sure there are many ways to avoid that...

    Appreciate the comment Louie1961!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Draper, UT
    Posts
    346

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    I wonder if your analyses of the welders operating modes exceed your ability to discern the difference in actual use (they have mine). If you are considering a welder of this caliber you will not do wrong by either.
    MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45

    "No matter where you go, there you are" [Buckaroo Bonsai]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    You "wonder" ? My friend, there isn't a shadow of a doubt. Your choice of words is kind though massively undeserved. That's the problem with doing too much research too soon. I am covering fourth year material and have yet to attend a single class - no real-world basis to apply any of the information to.

    As you suggest, time to get 'something' and get started. I am there!

    Thanks all.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Draper, UT
    Posts
    346

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    The correct term is "Analysis Paralysis" and I suffer from it as well, according to my wife.
    Tony did a pretty good write-up on the 221
    MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45

    "No matter where you go, there you are" [Buckaroo Bonsai]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    n.w. of chicago
    Posts
    805

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    All that adjustability to a new weldor can really slow down the learning curve, of the 3 mentioned the dynasty is the easiest to figure out to me at least, I don't weld anything no more but if I was only doing occasional misc. welds I would find the simplest turn it on and go machine made like the lincoln 210 or harbor freight equivalent, gotta learn to walk before you can run

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,210

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    you are way off on the ac pulses. it goes up to 999 per second. And if you are going to sweat over 1 vs 4 amps starting current, you are the best welder in the world. Because virtually no one else can tell the difference.
    You are wrong
    Ac pulse max is 10
    Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controls
    Hypertherm Powermax45
    2015 AHP Tig
    Razorweld 195 Mig
    Razorweld 200ac/dc Tig
    ViperMig 180
    Razorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal & MK Products & Atlas Positioner Dealer

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,603

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    I stand corrected
    Millermatic 252
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    3,933

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr-Mike View Post
    I am sorry. You see, the problem is that as soon as I open my mouth, I am in over my head lol.

    Thank you for taking a stab at an answer! Yes I think that is what I meant. Making sparks is quite a bit more involved (or less intuitive) than making chips, or so it seems to me.

    Anyway, Everlast calls the function Advanced Pulse. On Al say, when the peak AC pulse stops, instead of nothing or a reduced amp pulse, a DC pulse is applied producing greater penetration. That's what I gleaned from observations on you tube Apparently it is somewhat uncommon and I could not be sure if the HTP unit could do it. I am at the precipice of making a decision on a machine. HTP has the lead though there are a couple of other temptations.


    Again, much appreciated!
    No, it does not have this. It has AC square wave output, with adjustments for AC Frequency, AC balance, and Independent Amplitude adjustment. None of which allow you to dial in a true DC output independent of the AC waveform.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling signature!

    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300 MIG
    HTP ProPulse 200 MIG x2
    HTP ProPulse 220 MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200 TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Draper, UT
    Posts
    346

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Actually, with independent AC+ and AC- adjustments you can introduce a DC component. With balance set at 50% (duty cycle), AC+ = 100A and AC- = 50A, there will be a 25A DC+ component to the waveform. It's same as a 75a AC waveform plus a 25A DC+ waveform. On the positive side, the current is 25 DC + 75AC for 100A. On the negative side it's 25 DC + (-75AC) for -50A.

    Also, AC balance set to anything but 50 will introduce DC. It's all about the area under the curve for each waveform. If the positive and negative areas are different, then there is a DC component when averaged over time.

    Think about a simple transformer welder which supplies a sine wave current. Half the time the current is positive and half negative so the areas are equal and the current is AC only. Put a bridge rectifier in line and you get only positive(or negative) pulses and you now have a DC welder.
    Last edited by frieed; 12-17-2018 at 09:54 PM.
    MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45

    "No matter where you go, there you are" [Buckaroo Bonsai]

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Thanks for confirming Oscar! Having read the HTP manual in its entirety I assumed this was the case. I also read the entire Dynasty 210DX manual. Between the two, I would conclude the Miller is the more robust machine in every way but two. The program memory (if the Miller has none - which is the case as far as I can tell), and 10 more amps. Two petty items in my mind. However the Miller is also more robust when it comes to price. If I come across a sale before the HTP is back in stock, it's a no brainer for the Miller. It is pretty much a done deal for the Miller anyway. Its pluses are worthful.

    Thanks!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Quote Originally Posted by frieed View Post
    Actually, with independent AC+ and AC- adjustments you can introduce a DC component. With balance set at 50% (duty cycle), AC+ = 100A and AC- = 50A, there will be a 25A DC+ component to the waveform. It's same as a 75a AC waveform plus a 25A DC+ waveform. On the positive side, the current is 25 DC + 75AC for 100A. On the negative side it's 25 DC + (-75AC) for -50A.
    Interesting but Not sure I follow. The cool things on the Miller is: Significantly greater AC Pulse range, 2 amp start, 3 times the duty cycle at max (100% @ 175 amps), twice the frequency range and waveforms. I do bear in mind, as one gent stated previously, all way above my needs and capabilities. But definitely no harm

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Draper, UT
    Posts
    346

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers D'oh... apparently from the documentation .. looks like miller has better cooling at max amps. I thought they were closer.
    Fortunately I can't go that long without dipping the tungsten....
    from the miller owners manual for the 210DX https://www.millerwelds.com/-/media/...s--english.pdf
    Name:  Capture.JPG
Views: 189
Size:  24.2 KB

    from the htp website: https://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetai...ode=70221-12.5
    Name:  Capture1.JPG
Views: 191
Size:  21.5 KB
    Last edited by frieed; 12-17-2018 at 10:18 PM.
    MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45

    "No matter where you go, there you are" [Buckaroo Bonsai]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    south GA where its hot in summer and cold in winter
    Posts
    4,887

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    The advanced pulse of the Everlast cycles between AC and DC during one pulse cycle. On each "half" of the pulse cycle, you can adjust amperage and pulse time on (duty cycle). This allows you to skew more time on devoted to AC or less time on devoted to DC, and you can assign amperage to the the DC amperage and the AC amperage halves. And of course, for this pulse only, the unit is limited to 10 hz due to practical limitations and effect of this type of pulse switching. Regular AC pulse frequency is 250 Hz. I've had customers cut and etch welds with the 255 amp PowerTIG 255EXT with penetration at 1" on Aluminum while laying filler. I've also used it to create (on the low end) fantastic bead shape and affect excellent control, depending on the pulse time on and amperage settings.

    The AC provides the cleaning, and the DC provides the follow up penetration. Adjusting your base (DC part) to 99% Amperage gives you outrageous power.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    44

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    I'll admit, the 255EXT did catch my attention when I stumbled on it on YouTube (hence the original question). Even the 256SI got a glance for its integrated plasma cutting. I'm just not that consumer. Anyway, definitely a cool trick by Everlast - kudos!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    St. Johns, Michigan
    Posts
    253

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    I think I've used pulse twice on my Dynasty in AC mode.. Usually Balance and freq. is all I ever adjust.
    Pete




    ESAB SVI300
    ESAB MIG 4 HD
    MILLER PASSPORT 180
    MILLER DYNASTY 300DX
    MILLER COOLMATE 4
    MILLER 30A
    MILLER SPECTRUM 2050
    C&K WF-3
    PrimeWeld Tig 225X

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    3,933

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Quote Originally Posted by frieed View Post
    Actually, with independent AC+ and AC- adjustments you can introduce a DC component. With balance set at 50% (duty cycle), AC+ = 100A and AC- = 50A, there will be a 25A DC+ component to the waveform. It's same as a 75a AC waveform plus a 25A DC+ waveform. On the positive side, the current is 25 DC + 75AC for 100A. On the negative side it's 25 DC + (-75AC) for -50A.
    .
    I see what you're trying to get at, but IMO it's flawed. You're separating the AC square wave output and trying to justify why it's separate halves constituted as true mixed AC/DC. Your terminology is also ambiguous because the word "balance" you are using with respect to amplitude adjustment, but it is already used for discussing AC Balance control, which are two separate things: AC balance is in the time domain only, and Independent amplitude control is in the current domain only.

    With the main welding current set to 100A, and EN percentage set at 50% , EP = 100A and EN = 50A
    .
    There, I fixed that for you to be very specific and exact, so as to not be ambiguous with the terminology.

    there will be a 25A DC+ component to the waveform
    This is where you start to get off-track. Adjusting the EN% on the Independent Amplitude control will do no such thing. It will only do what you had initially described, the "EN+ = 100A and EN- = 50A" part (with correct terminology.

    On the positive side, the current is 25 DC + 75AC for 100A. On the negative side it's 25 DC + (-75AC) for -50A.
    Sorry, but that is just incorrect, you're adding in mixed AC/DC to a machine that does not have it. Just because numerically it "adds up" doesn't make it reality. That's like me saying:

    "Set Main Welding Amperage to 100A. Set EN to 60%, so EP=100A, EN=60A. There will be a 20A DCEP component to the waveform. 20A DCEP + 80A AC = 100A DCEP, and 20A DCEP + (-80A AC) = 60A DCEN. Numerically it adds up if you only look at the numbers, but once you look at the reality of the current waveforms, then it doesn't add up that way. I can make up numbers too, but it unfortunately doesn't reflect reality. Case in point: I simply made up the part that states "There will be a 20A DCEP component to the waveform", and made the numbers seemingly work out.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling signature!

    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300 MIG
    HTP ProPulse 200 MIG x2
    HTP ProPulse 220 MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200 TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    3,933

    Re: HTP - Question on invertig 221H pulse function

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    EP = 100A and EN = 50A" part (with correct terminology.
    Fixed a typo in the above quote of myself, lol.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling signature!

    HTP Invertig 221
    HTP ProPulse 300 MIG
    HTP ProPulse 200 MIG x2
    HTP ProPulse 220 MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200 TLP
    HTP Microcut 875SC

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
RSS | Home | Penton Media | Contact Us | Subscribe | For Advertisers | Terms of Use | Privacy Statement