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  1. #26
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    $8.00 a month to rent it?


    cheaper than my beer budget and I rent that too
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  2. #27
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    FWIW, I just bought one yesterday a 125cf AR/Co2. Choice was $230 to buy or $80 a year to lease, seemed like a no brainer. First fill was 1/2 price either way ($35) Even with the recert fee every ? years it still didn't make any sense to lease. The place I bought it from (MN O2) gave me a form that showed my ownership of the bottle and said that if I were to sell it that I'd have to sign over the form, that they would not refill it for anyone else - guess they check the serial numbers.

    Not sure how this winds up working if I fill somewhere else. I used to own a bigger bottle that I would just exchange at Toll and then pay the recert fee every ? years regardless of the fact that they were not refilling, just swapping.
    Last edited by oldjeep; 01-11-2019 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #28
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    And, there's the personal small town touch. I had full bottles on a Saturday, but knew I'd run out of O2 on all 4 bottles before Monday. Guy gives me a coupla loaner bottles till Monday. Just pay for the fill when I bring them back. You can't beat that. It's why I buy ALL my equipment, and consumables (sometimes I cheat on plasma consumables ), local. Besides...…... I'm a solid gold plated azzhole, and they'll do anything to get me out the door
    You clearly have a great BUSINESS OWNER there who is taking care od his customers. I also am blessed to have an awesome welding supplier. Same thing with gas, trying a new blend, have a project and going to need extra, just take tge bottle and pay for the gas. I buy almost everything from them, except for my 350P that I bought slightly used from a guy getting divorced, now I'm THAT guy selling it again. CLICHE!
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  4. #29
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    I hear this thing constantly about owner bottles. I am sure glad that I have a great LWS. I can buy anything up to a 330 bottle, and the receipt always says "Customer owned bottle". When I swap out, the receipt says "Customer owned bottle". All have the LWS stamped neck ring.

  5. #30
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    From original post...
    "Anything here I'm missing? Anyone buy these ebay bottles? I don't want to show up with a complete piece of junk trying to use it as a core to trade in. It looks like customer owned bottles are hoarded and valued around here, so buying one online and then taking it for exchange would be about my only way to go. That's what I did with a small CO2 bottle for my kegerator."
    I bought a bottle off an eBay auction and got an in date USA made bottle with a smooth ring from "thegasguys" an eBay seller. I went to exchange it for a full bottle of Argon at the local supplier (not airgas) at first they didn't want to take a bottle which wasn't theirs but then they did. I ended up with their name on the neck ring of my now full bottle. No mention of rental or fees but I guess I am now their customer only as not likely another vender will take this bottle. I look at it as having bought into the system and in my case I paid about $110 shipped for an empty 80 cf bottle.

  6. #31
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Anything over 125 cu ft you're asking for a hassle. Places like some close to me will fill anything you bring. If it needs a test thats another $40. Places like airgas only deal with their stuff. Larger than 125 however are a hassle because above that they won't sell them to you so they assume they are filling someon else's rental and won't usually do it.
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  7. #32
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by one1 View Post
    anything over 125 cu ft you're asking for a hassle. Places like some close to me will fill anything you bring. If it needs a test thats another $40. Places like airgas only deal with their stuff. Larger than 125 however are a hassle because above that they won't sell them to you so they assume they are filling someon else's rental and won't usually do it.
    ^^xx5

  8. #33
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    Dec 2018
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Going to stop by Kool Gas tomorrow to inquire about buying a 125 from them (company that services my local NAPA). I have a dentist appointment in the town where they're located about 40 miles north of home.

  9. #34
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    I had a 135cuft from Airgas for years. Then they phased out that size and dropped to 125's. Few more years passed these were phased out also. Now Customer owned is a 110cuft. Few more years and they will probably phase them out too.
    Its just they don't want to service the Farmer/Semi-Retired guys anymore.

  10. #35
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by drujinin View Post
    I had a 135cuft from Airgas for years. Then they phased out that size and dropped to 125's. Few more years passed these were phased out also. Now Customer owned is a 110cuft. Few more years and they will probably phase them out too.
    Its just they don't want to service the Farmer/Semi-Retired guys anymore.
    Airgas does 125s, I got a quote to buy one last week.

  11. #36
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Airgas sells 150 cf.
    No?, ask to see their company policy prohibiting it.

  12. #37
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by vwguy3 View Post
    Airgas sells 150 cf.
    No?, ask to see their company policy prohibiting it.
    Yeh, I bought a 150 from airgas too. Get fills in the 170 to 175 cf range.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  13. #38
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    I bought a 150cf bottle from pretty much the only company here. (General Distributing in Montana) I took it in to exchange it the other day and asked if I could put it on my Dad's account, he has a long term lease type agreement with them on several bottles and has spent 10s of thousands with them over the years, so I thought maybe I could get a better price that way than paying cash. They guy sat down at the computer and said "Nope, the bottle you brought in comes up as a cash purchased bottle, so you'll have to pay cash for the exchange." So I guess they are putting a serial number in the computer of bottles that go out so they know whether they are owned or leased? (I've saved all my receipts when I bought bottles from them in case I ever have to prove that I own them, but didn't realize they kept track of each bottle.)
    Web developer/ LAMP stack back end programmer for a living
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  14. #39
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    I fill my bottles from where they were purchased.

    Purchased them used.

    Have heard, some gas places, do not like to fill bottles
    if they were not purchased from them.

    my 2 cents

    Charl

  15. #40
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    11

    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Stopped by Kool Gas yesterday to inquire about buying a bottle. He said the biggest they will sell me is an 80. If I bring in a 125 with proof that I own it they will do so on an exchange basis. They charge a $10/year "maint fee" for customer owned bottles, which I understand. They're having to maintain bottles and keep them in hydro and then the customer turns in a bottle out of hydro and gets one that's in hydro, so I understand that.

    I decided to call Airgas here which is about 60 miles South of me after seeing oldjeep's post, and they acted like selling a bottle was no big deal. Said it would be a hair over $250 for a full 125, or $240ish for an 80.

    Both of these guys said that the 80 is the problem free way to go if I want to own a tank. If I'm not going to be using this thing a whole lot am I better off doing that? for less than $15 difference the 125 seems to make more sense, but I don't want to get a bottle and then have them try to nail me with rental charges on top of it. I guess if I buy directly from them and keep my receipt I could fight them if that ever came to pass.

    I'm probably WAY overthinking this. I'm just wary of any kind of "agreement" that locks me into paying something over the long term.

  16. #41
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepwm69 View Post
    Stopped by Kool Gas yesterday to inquire about buying a bottle. He said the biggest they will sell me is an 80. If I bring in a 125 with proof that I own it they will do so on an exchange basis. They charge a $10/year "maint fee" for customer owned bottles, which I understand. They're having to maintain bottles and keep them in hydro and then the customer turns in a bottle out of hydro and gets one that's in hydro, so I understand that.

    I decided to call Airgas here which is about 60 miles South of me after seeing oldjeep's post, and they acted like selling a bottle was no big deal. Said it would be a hair over $250 for a full 125, or $240ish for an 80.

    Both of these guys said that the 80 is the problem free way to go if I want to own a tank. If I'm not going to be using this thing a whole lot am I better off doing that? for less than $15 difference the 125 seems to make more sense, but I don't want to get a bottle and then have them try to nail me with rental charges on top of it. I guess if I buy directly from them and keep my receipt I could fight them if that ever came to pass.

    I'm probably WAY overthinking this. I'm just wary of any kind of "agreement" that locks me into paying something over the long term.
    If you can get one with a plan neck no markings. Then you can get it filled anyplace and keep your bottle.
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  17. #42
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepwm69 View Post
    Stopped by Kool Gas yesterday to inquire about buying a bottle. He said the biggest they will sell me is an 80. If I bring in a 125 with proof that I own it they will do so on an exchange basis. They charge a $10/year "maint fee" for customer owned bottles, which I understand. They're having to maintain bottles and keep them in hydro and then the customer turns in a bottle out of hydro and gets one that's in hydro, so I understand that.

    I decided to call Airgas here which is about 60 miles South of me after seeing oldjeep's post, and they acted like selling a bottle was no big deal. Said it would be a hair over $250 for a full 125, or $240ish for an 80.

    Both of these guys said that the 80 is the problem free way to go if I want to own a tank. If I'm not going to be using this thing a whole lot am I better off doing that? for less than $15 difference the 125 seems to make more sense, but I don't want to get a bottle and then have them try to nail me with rental charges on top of it. I guess if I buy directly from them and keep my receipt I could fight them if that ever came to pass.

    I'm probably WAY overthinking this. I'm just wary of any kind of "agreement" that locks me into paying something over the long term.
    This is why you guys need to get on an account with your suppliers. My account with my supplier states "All customer owned cylinders" they don't care what I exchange as long as it's not a current competitor marked cylinder. And they have done that when one of the idiots on a jobsite grabbed another company's cylinder by mistake. And stop expecting them to fill "YOUR" cylinder, exchange is the norm for commercial accounts and we don't worry about custom paint jobs etc.

  18. #43
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Exchange is the name of the game here in southern california. Never seen a tank being refilled for a customer in shop, not even sure if they'd send it off for you to get back. I've saved quite a bit buying a new/"factory filled"/no neck ring/up to date hydro tank on craigslist or offerup (android app).

  19. #44
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowBlues View Post
    Exchange is the name of the game here in southern california. Never seen a tank being refilled for a customer in shop, not even sure if they'd send it off for you to get back. I've saved quite a bit buying a new/"factory filled"/no neck ring/up to date hydro tank on craigslist or offerup (android app).
    And there is a lot of competition here in SoCal. Some places will even pick up and deliver if paid for in advance, for a fee of course.
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  20. #45
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepwm69 View Post
    Stopped by Kool Gas yesterday to inquire about buying a bottle. He said the biggest they will sell me is an 80. If I bring in a 125 with proof that I own it they will do so on an exchange basis. They charge a $10/year "maint fee" for customer owned bottles, which I understand. They're having to maintain bottles and keep them in hydro and then the customer turns in a bottle out of hydro and gets one that's in hydro, so I understand that.

    I decided to call Airgas here which is about 60 miles South of me after seeing oldjeep's post, and they acted like selling a bottle was no big deal. Said it would be a hair over $250 for a full 125, or $240ish for an 80.

    Both of these guys said that the 80 is the problem free way to go if I want to own a tank. If I'm not going to be using this thing a whole lot am I better off doing that? for less than $15 difference the 125 seems to make more sense, but I don't want to get a bottle and then have them try to nail me with rental charges on top of it. I guess if I buy directly from them and keep my receipt I could fight them if that ever came to pass.

    I'm probably WAY overthinking this. I'm just wary of any kind of "agreement" that locks me into paying something over the long term.
    You are way over-thinking it
    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    This is why you guys need to get on an account with your suppliers. My account with my supplier states "All customer owned cylinders" they don't care what I exchange as long as it's not a current competitor marked cylinder. And they have done that when one of the idiots on a jobsite grabbed another company's cylinder by mistake. And stop expecting them to fill "YOUR" cylinder, exchange is the norm for commercial accounts and we don't worry about custom paint jobs etc.
    ^^^ this

    There's no benefit to owning "your own" tank, and them filling it, versus having them swap it out. No benefit

    Stop stressing about it

  21. #46
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepwm69 View Post
    and he said "Oh no, I want to keep THAT bottle. It's a good Union Carbide and I don't want to turn it in"
    Having a bottle that is expired, empty, but its "yours" what good does it do you?

  22. #47
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    I bought a used torch set up off of CL about 10, maybe 15 years back. The seller even gave me a bill of sale when he sold it to me. When I took the tanks into a local airgas, the guy was super cool with me. Acetylene was no problem to change out and he swapped me for a full tank, for just the cost of gas. Oxygen on the other hand, was more problematic. It was a 250 cu ft tank, and the neck ring was stamped with some other name than airgas (can't remember what it was). The airgas guy told me the setup was likely stolen, and at first refused to help me out. However, when I showed him the bill of sale, he swapped out the tank for a tank with no marking on the neck ring, and told me when I come back for refills make sure I get something from the "bastard tank pool". I get my tanks swapped for just the cost of oxygen and haven't paid a tank lease ever. Maybe I just got lucky, but airgas worked with me on this deal, and I keep going back to them for O2 and acetylene.

    If the gravy train ever runs out, I will go see what Maine Oxy can do for me. They have treated me really well with my customer owned CO2, C25 and Argon tanks.
    Praxair doesn't care what name is on the bottle, if it's expired, etc, they'll take anything and swap it out, no questions

    I go to their Durham office, it's close by for me, they have a location on Hartford

    I remember bringing a bottle to be swapped out years ago at airgas and the guy told me, nope, something to do with the name on the bottle, then I went to Praxair and they didn't care. As far as I'm concerned, airgas can get lost
    Last edited by MetalMan23; 01-24-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  23. #48
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan23 View Post
    You are way over-thinking it ^^^ this

    There's no benefit to owning "your own" tank, and them filling it, versus having them swap it out. No benefit

    Stop stressing about it
    Might be a benefit if you had a fancy paint job on it.
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  24. #49
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Might be a benefit if you had a fancy paint job on it.
    Lol yeah, that would be disappointing.

  25. #50
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    Re: Question on bottles renting vs owner owned

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepwm69 View Post
    So a couple of years ago Dad bought a Oxy/ Acet torch set up for sale. Had a cart (in fair shape, but a little rough), big Oxygen bottle (250), smaller acetylene bottle (about 1/2 the size of the Oxygen, maybe an 80?), old torch, hoses, regulators, and the regulator adjuster was broken off of the Oxygen regulator. He wanted the set up for the cart and bottles.

    Dad gave me a nice Smith torch/welding set up for Christmas, so I want to get this set-up in service.

    First hiccup. The Oxygen bottle is empty. It has an airgas sticker on it, collar is marked "Linde" and "Union Carbide division". I've nosed around on the internet and got an "uh oh". Looks like everything now is a rental bottle in that size. I also discovered that the hydro expired in 2017 (first hydro stamp is 1965).

    So I went over to talk to dad and from what I can tell from searching the interwebs, it largely depends on the local store as to how they handle such things. I was going to ask if they would just exchange this bottle for a full one (me paying for gas obviously) and he said "Oh no, I want to keep THAT bottle. It's a good Union Carbide and I don't want to turn it in"

    So I have a nice empty, out of hydro Linde 250 that I can't do anything with. LOL

    Luckily the Acetylene bottle still appears to have quite a bit in it.

    So I stop at the local ag supply place that handles Airgas, and they say that Airgas doesn't really do customer owned bottles anymore. They only rent them. The local ag store also mentioned that the prior owner of the business had a ton of customer owned bottles and when he suddenly passed away Airgas shows up with a truck and hauled them all off. The family wasn't aware of the difference in owned and rented bottles so by the time they figured out they were getting hosed it was too late. Needless to say that doesn't paint the closest Airgas place in a very good light.

    Local Napa carries "Coolgas" and they said if I bring in a customer owned bottle they will do it on an exchange basis, but I'll have to go to the Coolgas local office (40 miles away) to inquire on buying a tank from Coolgas, otherwise it's rental only.

    There's a local welding shop who has Welsco bottles, but haven't been able to talk to them yet.

    Seems like they're all trying to push people to rental bottles, which kinda locks you in to dealing with one particular company. My issue with that is, at $8/month, over a long period of time I'll literally spend thousands of dollars. I don't anticipate going through that much gas, so if I go through a bottle every 3 years I'll pay $288 just in rental fees.

    And yes, I realize that at the levels I'll be using this stuff, I'm more trouble to these companies than I'm worth, so I understand them not wanting to work with me on a program that doesn't involve me renting their bottles.

    The guy at Napa said if I can find an owner owned bottle I can bring it in and they'll do exchange, so I've looked and can get a 125 O2 bottle on ebay/ amazon for about $230 shipped. Obviously in the long term that would be the way to go.

    Anything here I'm missing? Anyone buy these ebay bottles? I don't want to show up with a complete piece of junk trying to use it as a core to trade in. It looks like customer owned bottles are hoarded and valued around here, so buying one online and then taking it for exchange would be about my only way to go. That's what I did with a small CO2 bottle for my kegerator.
    Check your local pawn show. be careful of rental bottles. make them guarantee it is owned. if it is old you will have to have it certified. cost $25.00 here. deal with a local welding shop. shipping will be more than the cost of bottle.
    Rich

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